Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    5

    Stat Priority for Holy Paladins... what's best for highest healing?

    What is the best stat priority for Holy Paladins for PvE at the current time? Right now, I have Spirit > Mastery > Haste = Crit. I know we need to stack Spirit, and that Intellect is our primary stat.. but I don't know if Mastery is best after that. Ask Mr. Robot and Icy Veins both say it's after Int/Spirit, but I'm still not sure. Ask Mr. Robot also has two other priorities -- a Burst Healing priority, which is Spirit > Haste > Mastery > Crit, and a Highest Output priority, which is Spirit > Crit > Mastery > Haste. I read the sticky on here for Holy Pallies, and it seems like Spirit and Haste is better than Mastery, but I'm hearing Mastery everywhere else.. so I'm trying to get an idea of what works well for other people.

    The reason I'm asking is because I feel like my hps is low. It's not a major concern since I'm only doing LFR at the moment, but I'd like to move onto Flex and want to be a reliable (and decent) healer, and put up the numbers that others are. I see Holy Pallies doing 100k+ hps, and I am NOWHERE near that. I top out at about 80k, but my normal is 65k-70k hps on boss fights.

    I don't think it's my healing/rotation. I am doing everything that Holy Pally guides say to do. I've read them over and over. I'm doing raid healing as opposed to sticking on the tank. I'm keeping my Beacon of Light up always, spamming Holy Light and Holy Shock (whenever it's up), using Divine Light when needed, and Flash of Light if I'm really in a bind. I also use Holy Radiance, especially when it procs. I'm using Light's Hammer whenever it's up every time, unless it's a phase where we're constantly moving or won't be fighting long enough, on the area with the most people. I'm using Light of Dawn at 3 Holy Power as well, and doing all of these things consistently.

    Here is my armory page. I'm gemmed mostly for Spirit with some Mastery thrown in as well as a 3% increased Crit effect. I've reforged mostly for Mastery. I feel like maybe I shouldn't be going so heavy on the Mastery (at 20.52% now), because it doesn't actually help my healing done; it only causes the target to absorb some incoming damage. I'm not having any problems with mana management, so I'm not too worried about mana consumption if I switch stat priorities.

    What stat priority do you guys recommend? Which works best for you to get the highest healing/hps that you can? Thanks for any help

  2. #2
    Hello,

    Please check following guides, they will give You even more information, not only answers to Your questions -
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...adin-Guide-5-4
    http://www.icy-veins.com/holy-paladi...-healing-guide
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  3. #3
    I'm not sure if your post is entirely serious. However, I will give you the benefit of a doubt...

    Couple things that stand out is that some of your gear is not fully enchanted, like your belt, wrists, weapon.

    I personally would use holy avenger over divine purpose.

    As for spirit, I don't stack it, I only have enough to get me through an encounter and I put the rest into intellect/mastery gemming. At the end of the day, spirit is a personal thing and you should go with what you're comfortable with. Your opinion on mastery is interesting and I think whatever guides your reading are perhaps misinformed. Illuminated healing is at the top of my healing done and it's directly from mastery. So I don't ignore mastery personally.

    3 HP Light of Dawn ? Since you're using eternal flame I would assume this is a typo and you meant 3 hp eternal flames .

    I recommend reading the posts that are already up from McBubble and Kerfax. There are some good discussions going on there with Paladins who are quite good and informed on playing the class.

  4. #4
    Well, you mention light's hammer, it's not really good for most SoO fights so I'd go with holy prism unless you're doing thok. You also say you're gemming spirit but have no mana problems? Then that spirit is being wasted and you should go with int/mastery. Ah your gear is quite low, so you don't want to drop too much spirit tbh. Get the divinity glyph for 10% mana after using LoH, that can be very helpful at low gear levels.

    Enchanting all your gear is obv. a must aswell.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Well, you mention light's hammer, it's not really good for most SoO fights so I'd go with holy prism unless you're doing thok. You also say you're gemming spirit but have no mana problems? Then that spirit is being wasted and you should go with int/mastery. Ah your gear is quite low, so you don't want to drop too much spirit tbh. Get the divinity glyph for 10% mana after using LoH, that can be very helpful at low gear levels.

    Enchanting all your gear is obv. a must aswell.

    Light's Hammer is good for more than just thok. It depends on your guilds strats for fights.
    14/14H Resto Shaman and Holy Paladin

  6. #6
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by JenJen View Post
    I'm not sure if your post is entirely serious. However, I will give you the benefit of a doubt...

    Couple things that stand out is that some of your gear is not fully enchanted, like your belt, wrists, weapon.

    I personally would use holy avenger over divine purpose.

    As for spirit, I don't stack it, I only have enough to get me through an encounter and I put the rest into intellect/mastery gemming. At the end of the day, spirit is a personal thing and you should go with what you're comfortable with. Your opinion on mastery is interesting and I think whatever guides your reading are perhaps misinformed. Illuminated healing is at the top of my healing done and it's directly from mastery. So I don't ignore mastery personally.

    3 HP Light of Dawn ? Since you're using eternal flame I would assume this is a typo and you meant 3 hp eternal flames .

    I recommend reading the posts that are already up from McBubble and Kerfax. There are some good discussions going on there with Paladins who are quite good and informed on playing the class.
    ...yes, I'm serious. I know that my gear is not fully enchanted; the enchants that are best for what I had were 1500g+ each on my server, and I couldn't drop that much multiple times, so I was waiting until I got better gear in those slots. There are quite a few Raid Finder pieces from the newer wings that haven't dropped for me yet, considering I've only been back in the game for a few weeks after stopping in April, before the newer wings were open. I'm also on the quest for the Legendary cloak atm, so that isn't there either.

    I was using Divine Purpose because it seemed to proc A LOT for me (I've gotten procs 5 times in a row when using LoD/EF) and I didn't need to remember to use it, but I will try out Holy Avenger instead, since it's more controllable.

    The guides that I'm reading have come from Icy Veins mostly, which are checked by top raiders from Paragon, Blood Legion, etc. so I'm not sure how they're so misinformed. I think you may have misread the post. They, along with Ask Mr. Robot, recommend stacking Mastery, which is what I have been doing and what you are saying to do. Maybe you got confused when I said that AMR offers other priority builds, which I mentioned at the top of my post. Not sure.

    Kerfax's post also says that Mastery is not better than Haste. He says it's either Int > Spirit > Haste > Mastery > Crit, or Int > Spirit > Haste (to 3106 rating) > Mastery > Haste > Crit. Actually, everything in that guide goes against what you're saying. McBubble, though, recommends Mastery after Int/Spirit. The two guides conflict. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- some guides from good Holy Paladins say Mastery, some say Haste.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, but I mentioned I had read those already. The two have conflicting stat priorities, which is why I'm asking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I know, I forgot to mention about the enchants -- the good ones go for 1500g+ each on my server, and I couldn't drop that much multiple times, so I was waiting for better gear from the newer wings to drop for me since it hasn't yet. I'm running everything from after Last Stand of the Zandalari each week, so.. I'm trying, haha. It will get enchanted though And apparently I derped and forgot to enchant the new weapon I just got, which my max level enchanter can actually do (she just doesn't have the newer MoP rep recipes) so that'll be done next time I log on :P

    Is it that Light's Hammer isn't good for most SoO fights because people aren't stacked often enough for it to make it worth it? I usually pop it on either A. wherever the group has to stack (I can think of times in at least 3 different, newer LFR's that this happens) and B. whenever I can on the ranged that are somewhat grouped up further back, since Druids, Shammies, etc. tend to put theirs down where the tank is fairly often. I've had it work well on Naz, Thok, Jin'rokh the Breaker, Megaera, Malkorok, and The Fallen Protectors, all of which had times we needed to stack for, and that's not including the older raids of this xpac. But I will try out Holy Prism again and see if it makes a difference.

    If I'm stacking Spirit, I shouldn't be having mana problems, no? Isn't that sort of the point of stacking Spirit? I'll look at the Divinity glyph, but I don't seem to need to use LoH very often. I've used it maybe 3 times in the past 6-8 weeks of doing LFR.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Adabella View Post
    Is it that Light's Hammer isn't good for most SoO fights because people aren't stacked often enough for it to make it worth it? I usually pop it on either A. wherever the group has to stack (I can think of times in at least 3 different, newer LFR's that this happens) and B. whenever I can on the ranged that are somewhat grouped up further back, since Druids, Shammies, etc. tend to put theirs down where the tank is fairly often. I've had it work well on Naz, Thok, Jin'rokh the Breaker, Megaera, Malkorok, and The Fallen Protectors, all of which had times we needed to stack for, and that's not including the older raids of this xpac. But I will try out Holy Prism again and see if it makes a difference.
    For the Light's Hammer question, LH is good for LFR because there are more people. In 10-man, where you probably only hit 4-5 people with LH, prism usually wins because of its versatility and the short cd makes it worth more over the course of the fight. Even in 25's, some fight require so much spreading that LH lags behind like Immerseus or Juggernaut. As a simple guideline, if you can't be reasonably sure you'll get a "good" LH off about every 90 seconds, you're better off just going with prism.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    504
    Mastery: If you want higher throughput, it's good.
    Talents: Personally, I feel that in most situation Holy Prism, while maybe even healing less, saves lives more often. Same with Holy Avenger - it's slightly weaker than Divine Purpose on paper, but in reality reliable cooldown "burst" healing is more important that "random proc".

    This is also advice I can give - concentrate less on healing numbers, and more on keeping people alive.
    Last edited by Thiron; 2013-10-23 at 01:46 PM.
    Old Gods made me do it.

  9. #9
    You might want to look at http://fullspectrumholypally.wordpress.com/ too.

    In short, the value of haste and mastery is a bit up in the air and will mostly depend on play style it seems. If you go by the strict numbers that Bouche has put out at the link I provided then haste will usually be more valuable for pure output, but you'll find you need more spirit to sustain that output. At least crit is always going to be the worst unless you're getting haste past the 55% breakpoint, which is unlikely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Thiron View Post
    Mastery: If you want higher throughput, it's good.
    Talents: Personally, I feel that in most situation Holy Prism, while maybe even healing less, saves lives more often. Same with Holy Avenger - it's slightly weaker than Divine Purpose on paper, but in reality reliable cooldown "burst" healing is more important that "random proc".

    This is also advice I can give - concentrate less on healing numbers, and more on keeping people alive.
    I honestly have never found that Holy Prism saves lives. Its instant so it throws heals out quickly. Its more or less snipes heals and heals people that probably would have lived without it. Only way i can see it really saving lives is if you use it single target.
    14/14H Resto Shaman and Holy Paladin

  11. #11
    1482 useless/incorrect posts and counting.

    Holy prism saves more lives then any other heal we have in out toolkit bar maybe loh. By your horrid view of healing every heal is just sniped healing when you break it down to individual amounts. Wow I don't even know what to say about your post... How does single target holy prism save more lives then regular? Please do not post more garbage, just refrain from typing anything till you learn to play. The community will benefit greatly.

  12. #12
    You made the statement in your original post: I feel like maybe I shouldn't be going so heavy on the Mastery (at 20.52% now), because it doesn't actually help my healing done; it only causes the target to absorb some incoming damage.

    Illuminated healing does indeed go towards your healing done. Icy Veins is nice but it tells you rotations and gemming and talents. Understanding those things comes from conversing with people who are here. Yes, they have different opinions but neither are wrong.

    Haste for Paladins has breakpoints after you reach one you're comfortable with you go for mastery. You are unlikely to be able to reach those breakpoints in your gear level. I'm 555 and I could go for 10K but I would be oom so I stick with 7170 break point.


    LFR shenanigans don't really require you to be the best or have "high" healing. You want high numbers ? pop wings, guardian, divine favor and go ape and spam holy radiance on your beacon target and light of dawn all day. It's not effective healing, but looks awesome on recount . I just did this on Garrosh lfr since I was bored, 2nd on healing with 65 million healing done. Probably could of done more if not for pesky disc priest spirit shell.

    I'm saying this jokingly though, because doing the above wont teach you anything. Stick with what you're doing and as your gear improves so will your healing

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Bythelights View Post
    1482 useless/incorrect posts and counting.

    Holy prism saves more lives then any other heal we have in out toolkit bar maybe loh. By your horrid view of healing every heal is just sniped healing when you break it down to individual amounts. Wow I don't even know what to say about your post... How does single target holy prism save more lives then regular? Please do not post more garbage, just refrain from typing anything till you learn to play. The community will benefit greatly.
    I have yet to see a helpful post from you. Here is the sum of most of your posts, "Everyone is wrong", "I can't wait for Aladya to post", "You're bad, l2p", etc even when I have seen you disagree with my posts on the official forums on the ptr and then completely agree when the same thing is posted by aladya. Give me a break and do us all a favor and leave. In 25m, Holy Prism does not save lives, it is fluff snipe healing. Yea its better in many circumstances than lights hammer but don't fool yourself to thinking that small heal on 5 people is doing really any good other than padding, much less "saving lives".
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-10-23 at 03:50 PM.
    14/14H Resto Shaman and Holy Paladin

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bythelights View Post
    1482 useless/incorrect posts and counting.

    Holy prism saves more lives then any other heal we have in out toolkit bar maybe loh. By your horrid view of healing every heal is just sniped healing when you break it down to individual amounts. Wow I don't even know what to say about your post... How does single target holy prism save more lives then regular? Please do not post more garbage, just refrain from typing anything till you learn to play. The community will benefit greatly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I have yet to see a helpful post from you. Here is the sum of most of your posts, "Everyone is wrong", "I can't wait for Aladya to post", "You're bad, l2p", etc even when I have seen you disagree with my posts on the official forums on the ptr and then completely agree when the same thing is posted by aladya. Give me a break and do us all a favor and leave. In 25m, Holy Prism does not save lives, it is fluff snipe healing. Yea its better in many circumstances than lights hammer but don't fool yourself to thinking that small heal on 5 people is doing really any good other than padding, much less "saving lives".
    You're both giving those talents too much weight, no matter which you pick they'll all be pretty fluffy (in 10 man), but they're all very efficient ways of healing if used properly, which is what they're for.


    As for the OP: You probably want to aim for around 14-16k Spirit for normals, followed by the 3.5k Haste breakpoint and then everything else into Intellect and Mastery (Int > Mastery gems), but make sure you have a play with different healing styles and figure out which one you like best, as they're all close enough right now to be considered personal choice.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    You're both giving those talents too much weight, no matter which you pick they'll all be pretty fluffy (in 10 man), but they're all very efficient ways of healing if used properly, which is what they're for.
    I'm not giving it that much weight. I was arguing against the idea that Holy Prism "saves lives" and is more useful than Light's Hammers(usefullness depends on the fight). Bythelights decided to jump in and argue a bunch of shit that wasn't even in my post and just talk shit.
    14/14H Resto Shaman and Holy Paladin

  16. #16
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Not nearly out of the way enough
    Posts
    4,678
    Let's keep it civil, please. There is no need to post just to pick fights with other posters.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Int > Mastery gems
    I am curious. I have stayed out gemming stat wt. arguments but I am just going to put myself out there. How are people basing their Int > Mast/Haste for gemming conclusions? I have tried hard to find a way that makes Int > 2 Mast/Haste and I just cant do it. Some very progressed pallys are using Int gems but mathematically it just doesn't makes sense. Obviously we are not talking 50% differences in throughput. But for people that are not crazy skilled or have crazy hours to play min/max'ing is helpful and I just don't get the go Red or go home gemming decisions.
    Full Spectrum Guild: #1 Two Night Guild in the US. http://www.fullspectrumguild.com/
    Pally Blog
    Armory

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bouchbagette View Post
    I am curious. I have stayed out gemming stat wt. arguments but I am just going to put myself out there. How are people basing their Int > Mast/Haste for gemming conclusions? I have tried hard to find a way that makes Int > 2 Mast/Haste and I just cant do it. Some very progressed pallys are using Int gems but mathematically it just doesn't makes sense. Obviously we are not talking 50% differences in throughput. But for people that are not crazy skilled or have crazy hours to play min/max'ing is helpful and I just don't get the go Red or go home gemming decisions.
    As was discussed in one of the other two threads, its because of the consistency you get with Intellect, in that you don't necessarily 'need' more general throughput, but you do need to keep things fairly well rounded throughout your rotation.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    As was discussed in one of the other two threads, its because of the consistency you get with Intellect, in that you don't necessarily 'need' more general throughput, but you do need to keep things fairly well rounded throughout your rotation.
    What is an example of consistency?
    Full Spectrum Guild: #1 Two Night Guild in the US. http://www.fullspectrumguild.com/
    Pally Blog
    Armory

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bouchbagette View Post
    What is an example of consistency?
    Like it buffing the EF HoT and enabling better burst healing for things like Thok (if you don't bother to respec) for example.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •