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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    They've steered away from casual easy mode, and made the game the most un-casual game ever.
    I wouldn't go that far, Rift is still much more grindy, even though you can buy boosts. Compared to Rift, WoW isn't really that much of a grind (I have heard that Trion made the rep grinds easier and such in the latest patch but it's still a very very long grind to both max level and to get your reputations to the levels to getthe stuff you 'need' for raiding...however Rift raiding is horrible so I don't know why people bother...)

    Granted WoW isn't casual friendly, however it never really was when you boil it down. You always had to do reputation grinds (tabards or otherwise), leveling to max level was always a chore until the end of the current xpac or near to it, gearing up/random dungeons for currency was a grind (even when they had you able ot do all 7 daily random dungeons in 1 day if you chose to, worse now with it having to be done each day, granted VP is pretty easy to get now you still may want to run them).

    I never saw WoW as casual friendly, it got more casual, but it was still more of a chore than actually friendly to casual gamers and the hardcore players just got fed up with the grind and left, the numbers prove that, well maybe not the hardcore oplayers, but it could be as it's just numbers and notshown if those that quit/unsubbed played for XYZ hours per week or whatever.

  2. #282
    A couple of guesses

    4 expansions into a rpg game might not attract too many people, compared to 0-2 expansions. Its just to old for new people to start (I would imagin)

    People who started back in Vanilla/BC is starting to get older or burned out. So the teens back from Vanilla/BC (maybe wotlk) are done with their education now and have fulltime jobs, maybe a family, and already played the amount of wow they wanted to. So with a reduction in young guns in the game, its only natural subbs would drop

    With the digital age we are in, with everything at our fingetips, people might not be as interested in the grind that a rpg requires. The attention span just isnt... meh i dont care anymore

  3. #283
    What's the main reason for the dropping WoW subs?
    Ghostcrawler

    completely serious.
    Last edited by ManOluck; 2013-10-28 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #284
    Dreadlord Tarx's Avatar
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    Cataclysm destroyed wow because is realy bad to fly everywhere. They destroyed the big world and the feeling of exlporing.

  5. #285
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Honestly? It's just an old game. There's newer and shiner things to attract the people that even a few years ago would have been working to counter natural player churn and attrition.

    Beyond that, who subs 365 days a year anymore? Community's almost non-existant. I keep in sorta-touch with some old aquaintances in my mega-guild via a "'sup?" once every five months when I drop a month's game time on for the new content, then I take a break for a while. There's not enough there to justify sticking around all the time.

    That said though, I actually think the quality and breadth of the content has never been better. It's just... An old game. Only so much you can do to reinvigorate it.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Someone clearly got ganked a lot on that isle. Did you mistake PvP for PvE when you picked server types?
    was never "ganked" ever on the isle of quel'thalas, nor did I ever say that I was, I was letting him know what the reason of it being added to WoW was in the first place, it was not meant to be a pvp zone, if it was it wouldn't have guards now would it? you retard.

    And no you moron, I know what the type of realms there are, before you started playing and will long after you die in a ditch.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2013-10-28 at 10:45 AM.

  7. #287
    Game is old, it isn't hard to see. Any company, especially at this point of product's age, should value their old and current customers. In case of video games, there will be less and less new customers (players) over time, because video game as product is a subject to moral aging. Meanwhile old and current customers can help bring new players in the game (by word of mouth/forums).

    There is nothing in the game which supports that.

    Subscribed for over 2 years? How about free character/faction transfers?
    Subscribed for over 3 years? How about having some significant stat boosts?
    Subscribed for over 4 years? How about getting any but 1 item of your dream in the game?
    Subscribed for over 5 years? 10 bonus character slots.

    And so on. Examples are just examples, but there should be loyalty program, which would yield significant rewards, so that even newcomer would feel compelled to play the game for longer.

    Why should older customers keep playing, if the game constantly resets itself? 5.4 came and all previous raid gear became worse than crap, making you as good as someone who just dinged lv90. For 10-11th time it just becomes completely demotivating. Why older customers are expected to pay to change server, if it is just so happened that their former server died from age (was Medium/High and after years became Low)?

    Game is too much raid-focused with huge emphasis on "game balance" at max-level raiding, everything else is in pathetic state and completely ignored by current developers, and it won't hold for long unless developers will change current game paradigm.

  8. #288
    All this "It's an old game" stuff is rubbish. People don't just quit because they want something new and I know because I've quit several times hoping to find something better and no matter what new game comes out it doesn't come close to what wow 'was'.
    I keep coming back though. Every time hoping that the game will some day be like TBC again, where you actually had to play the game to see end content. Where there was an incentive to put hours and hours of time in. Where socializing with players was the only way to find groups, and where learning to play your class efficiently was the only way to overcome tightly tuned mechanics.

    I recently did come back and decided I wanted to try raiding again. Here's what the progression path used to be like -
    Level to 70 > Complete group quest chains in outland for pre normal dungeon BiS blues > Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Entry Raiding > End Game Raiding
    All the while socializing with other players, forming bonds and friendships.

    At level 70, regardless of whether or not Sunwell was on farm on your realm, there were newly forming guilds trying to clear karazhan and Gruul. Guilds that you could join based on your class uniqueness and dedication to put hours into the game.

    Current end game progression looks like this -
    Level to 90 > Get carried in HC Dungeon / Get Carried in BGs until enough iLvl > LFR > LFR > LFR > LFR > LFR > LFR > LFR until you've got about 530 iLvl > Flex > Normal > Heroics

    Unless you've been in a guild with steady progression through normal and heroic content from the beginning of the expansion, you're doomed to running LFR until you've got enough iLvl to join a pug flex group. At this point you've already defeated the end game content about 50 times. Where's the incentive to do it over and over again in a harder difficulty where you wipe and wipe until everyone learns the fight?
    With some experience of current content and some decent gear you can now start looking for a guild that runs normals. Keep in mind that most guilds won't need you as there's next to 0 class uniqueness any more.

    For someone like me who's invested years and years of work into my character to log in to find my friend list empty and my options very very linear and repetitive, there's just no incentive to keep playing wow in the state it's in. THAT's why people quit wow and new subs aren't happening.

  9. #289
    Epic! Felarion's Avatar
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    I think "grow up" syndrom got a lot to do with that. People who started as teenagers are now in 21-25 and got rather busy life (first jobs etc) and new players just didn't find warcraft attractive, maybe because of it's graphics i don't know.

  10. #290
    I think the focus on raiding as end-game is also a cause of drops....
    However you look at it, it will take time and quite a lot of time.

    What to do when someone has, lets say, 1 hour or 2 hours to log on and do something?
    LFR will take some time in queue, if people leace in the middle, it will take time to get new tanks/healers.....

    So, I think, that there must be more accessible content, short queues i mean... people have a short period, log on.. and then there needs to be something they can do.

  11. #291
    Banned The Penguin's Avatar
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    It sure as hell isn't competition. I just played FFXIV, and I was badly disappointed. Even the system for Account and Payment absolutely blows compared to Blizzard's. I'd say it's just that people get older and leave for RL.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    Cataclysm destroyed wow because is realy bad to fly everywhere. They destroyed the big world and the feeling of exlporing.
    You don't have to fly you know, if you want to explore on a ground mount, nothing is stopping you.

  13. #293
    WoW is not aging it is ghettoing. Why WoW wasnt old after 4 years in TBC? or 6 years in WotLK?

    Real reason why WoW is having such a rough time with subs is because its changing course all over the place and cant stick to its guns anymore. It tries to catter to everyone without making sure that there is one special group in playerbase that is trully valued over all others. WoW is changing its core systems each time they prove to work less then ideal. Just take a look at history of badges to valor/justive points to essentially valor points only.

    Any player that stays long enough and see this notices that blizzard acts like this desperate exotic dancer that tries to satisfy all of its customers and get all the load out for itself instead of accepting one mantra that proves true every single damn time:

    YOU CANT HAVE EVERYTHING

    Not to mention that they single handedly make this akward MMO where progress and spending time is not rewarding and satisfying for adleast a semi-long term but with each patch or re-iteration of system philosophy they basicaly give middle finger to all those who put time and effort into the game to get something only to see it on a bargain sale. AND YES YOU HEARD ME RIGHT, MMOs are all about time sinking into getting this one special shiny sword that forerver requires adleast the same course of action to get in order to retain its value as this one shiny sword that is worth spending XXX hours for. That is what legendary or epic means. Hard to take something as a legend when its changing its dificulty just because little timmy's parents will cancel his sub if he is not happy enough is it?

    What Im trying to say is that WoW at its very current stage has no long progression lines or long term goal to strive for. This directly compromises its very back bone subscription fee model. If you want subscription base model to work best when people subscribe for very long then why you introduce short term goals or change long term goals into short ones? (i.e the whole legendary cloak fiasco).

    /exhale

    Well... my vent is done.
    Last edited by Dzudzadzo; 2013-10-28 at 11:11 AM.

  14. #294
    I don't know, but I un-subed for some reasons:

    1-No RPG direction (MMORPG without RPG feels like a world with some minigames with a standard direction, so you burn the content and feel bored really fast).

    2-Other free games with better experience for players in the same wow's endgame content: PvPs (moba games, fp shooters, fighting games, RTT games, etc..), PvE (MmoRPGs, PvE battles online, multiplayer games, rpgs with multiplayer options, etc...).

    3-Less options to feel different from other players: stats, skills, armor/transmogs, 0 jerarchy, etc...from my point of view, we are "numbers" and not something done with our effort.

    4-It feels that the endgame is the only thing important in this game. All other things that you do or try to accomplish are just minigames that nobody care but we are doing them because we can't raid at that moment...

    5-From a lore point, the constant "smash the villain" thing that wow has become. Maybe we can't play like a villain, but we are killing every villain that becomes a threat (ergo, appear ingame),and that's a bit boring. With the improvement of quest explaining the story, we should have nice plots and not a focus-story that always ends with the same thing: us looting the corpse/body of the big baddie. Maybe we need something a bit different like Moira vanilla plot.

    I'm a Blizzard funboy since Lost Vikings, but this is not a good reason to maintain my subscription.

    P.D: Sorry for my english or grammar errors.

  15. #295
    For me personally its fealing like I have nothing left to do inn the game. Nothing to strive for, or atleast hope to do. No long term goals.

    I can't say it any other way really. I have grinded my ass off, raided alot over the years (Both pugging and 4-5 days a week semi-HC), did arena and pvp on my main and alts, and raided abit on my main alt over the years...Basicly there is nothing inn wow I haven't done but maybe top world raiding, and above 2k rated pvp.

    When you have done all that for 7-8 years, content needs to be good afterwards to keep you interested, and for me Cataclysme and MOP have both been very...meh.

    I just need the content to be good, and I'll play again - That simple. Recently I did sub pre-5.4, and sub lasted well into 5.4...Honestly, hole patch sucked...it had nothing that made me want to play...No a new raiding tier/gear reset is not something I care for much after so many years - I would if I still raided, but I dont so...
    Last edited by Djuntas; 2013-10-28 at 12:02 PM.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  16. #296
    The fact is I personally don't know if I can class world of warcraft as a game/mmo/rpg anymore.

    My reasoning: Say I made a mage (or any class for that matter) I could with the current state remove all abilities off my bars except say frostbolt (or any other standard damaging ability from another class) level to level 90, complete and see all content (talking LFR not felx,nm,hc), obtain full epic pve gear and obtain full pvp epics.

    I can do all of this without ever needing to talk to anyone, ever make or form a group outside of the dungeon finder and lfr never need to make any effort to work together with a team, never need to pick up one quest, never need to leave the capital city after level 15, never need to glyph, gem, enchant or upgrade in anyway any of my gear, don't need to worry about what stats I use all I need to do is stand still and spam one button. I will be showered in xp during LFD and at endgame I will be showered with epics.

    Surely something is fundamentally WRONG with the current state of this game? Am I the only one that thinks this borders on not being classed as a video game? This is like final fantasy 13 where the game practically plays itself with auto attack.

    This is why I think subs are dropping and with final fantasy 14 boasting some impressive intial sub figures I think we are about to see another massive drop.
    Last edited by MaraStarfury; 2013-10-28 at 11:38 AM.

  17. #297
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    WoW is old. That's all there is to it. Millions of people have already played it and gotten bored (there are only so many times you can reinvent the wheel), and won't come back no matter what Blizzard do. Lots of potential new players are put off by the fact that the game is old, regardless of how good it is. It's a miracle that any significant number of people still play at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    My reasoning: Say I made a mage (or any class for that matter) I could with the current state remove all abilities off my bars except say frostbolt (or any other standard damaging ability from another class) level to level 90, complete and see all content (talking LFR not felx,nm,hc), obtain full epic pve gear and obtain full pvp epics.
    What you're basically saying is that if you ignore anything that's even remotely difficult, ignore every aspect of the game that takes any degree of skill, take advantage of other players to carry you through content, and settle for the far inferior gear that you get by opting out of all these things, the game is too easy? You might as well say that as long as you never level beyond level 10, you can get the best level 10 gear really easily in just a few weeks.

    You'd never get anywhere in LFR if everyone just did what you did, so the whole "project" relies on other people being willing to help you instead of just kicking you (or you deceiving your way past bosses by not informing anyone of the fact that you plan to only use Frost Bolt and ignore mechanics).
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  18. #298
    Don't bash WoW's graphics. High end graphics in MMO's doesn't always work. Two titles spring to mind for me personally that prove this.

    1. Age of Conan, I played the beta and was there for launch the graphics for the time were very nice and it was supposed to launch with directx 10. Well the game was rife with graphical issues (amongst other things) and dx 10 was a disaster (had to wait for it I think). The game was virtually unplayable.

    2. SWTOR. Had its graphics scaled back because it turned out content with large groups was impossible to run on your average modern machines at least in a stable nature.

    You want to know why WoW drops subs? The same reason adults stop playing computer games, stop going out drinking, stop their quirky hobbies. Real life takes over when you get older, you might get the time to do one of your old hobbies but not all. WoW is susceptible to this because its been around so long - its players have all aged. There is in many cases a different generation playing now (on average) than played at release. A lot of those classic players now have serious jobs, children etc.

    The good news is that as jobs get boring, kids grow older etc, older players have the potential to return. This happens a lot in non-computer gaming such as MTG or Warhammer. People play through their teenage years and through uni, then get jobs and get engaged and quit the game usually due to a partner who won't put up with it or time constraints. This age group is then just missing. You find they sometimes return as and when their personal lives allow - I am a living breathing example of this.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    WoW is old. That's all there is to it. Millions of people have already played it and gotten bored (there are only so many times you can reinvent the wheel), and won't come back no matter what Blizzard do. Lots of potential new players are put off by the fact that the game is old, regardless of how good it is. It's a miracle that any significant number of people still play at all.


    What you're basically saying is that if you ignore anything that's even remotely difficult, ignore every aspect of the game that takes any degree of skill, take advantage of other players to carry you through content, and settle for the far inferior gear that you get by opting out of all these things, the game is too easy? You might as well say that as long as you never level beyond level 10, you can get the best level 10 gear really easily in just a few weeks.

    You'd never get anywhere in LFR if everyone just did what you did, so the whole "project" relies on other people being willing to help you instead of just kicking you (or you deceiving your way past bosses by not informing anyone of the fact that you plan to only use Frost Bolt and ignore mechanics).
    But he is right basically. You can reach max-lvl just by queueing and never leaving the main-city. You can reach cap-lvl by just spamming buttons and when you reach max-lvl you still don't know the class you're playing.

    People wanna ruch to max-lvl because there is nothing engaging below that; just rush through.
    Talents are not something to worry about anymore... cause if you decide not to use them at all, it won't be very punishing.
    Glyphs: same story.

    Just rush to 90 now and queue up, no problems there. Gear up... and wait for nexr xpac.... same thing again.

    People don't feel that they are getting stronger when they level up.. now with heirlooms, we don't even need to get upgrades untill last xpac.
    So yeah, it tend to get boring.... cata brought a revamp of the old world but in the end, it is still the same thing just in a different coat.

    There is nothing to explore, cause the only thing you do get in some place and kill.... what do we explore? It is the same... it doesn't matter in what cae you go, what area you go... just kill untill you have your goal for the quest and leave.

    How much fun is raiding actually?
    I see groups going and the only thing they want is not waste time, get it over with, because they want some item.
    Flex groups want overgeared people.. there is no exploring.. it is just killing stuff and looting; then leave.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Ghostcrawler

    completely serious.
    An argument could be made that making the classes more "interesting" to play, which is in Ghostcrawler's domain of responsibility, has upped the performance spread and driven many players away from the game.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

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