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  1. #1

    The Draenor Problem - Cataclysm 2.0

    What ho,

    I'm not here to whine. I love the idea of some old-fashioned Warcraft 2 combat. Maybe we can even dream of hearing some Warcraft 2 music in the soundtrack, but orchestrated.

    But there are obvious implications to the Warlords of Draenor theories flying around, and also obvious problems with going back to Outland.

    Have you guys already forgotten about Cataclysm?


    1. While Blizzard developers generally felt happy about the re-vamped Azeroth, and thought it was a necessary evil for the greater good of the game's lifespan, it's also the case that looking back, they seem to feel that it took way too much time from the endgame content.

    2. While Uldum and all the other new zones were cool, they realised after some time that it offered a very shattered and inconsistent experience to the players. They preferred going back to the one continent model after that.


    These two 'facts' have one implication: Blizzard would neither like to revamp another world so soon, considering how disastrous that was for endgame and subscribers the last time around; nor would they place a bunch of new endgame zones around the current Outland map, as that would give us a disjointed experience.

    So maybe they'll invent another landmass, a new continent, that survived the destruction of Draenor? While this isn't unthinkable, it does create problems with the lore. The name Warlords of Draenor, and the speculated reasons for us going back there, implies lots of lore from Beyond the Dark Portal - which is all set around the Outland we currently have. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly move all of that lore to a new Draenor continent. Which brings us back to the other problem, that they are unlikely to do another Cataclysm re-vamp which would take too much time away from endgame content.

    What are your thoughts on this? Again, I'm not bashing the idea of going back, I'm just trying to see how it would work.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    What ho,

    I'm not here to whine. I love the idea of some old-fashioned Warcraft 2 combat. Maybe we can even dream of hearing some Warcraft 2 music in the soundtrack, but orchestrated.

    But there are obvious implications to the Warlords of Draenor theories flying around, and also obvious problems with going back to Outland.

    Have you guys already forgotten about Cataclysm?

    1. While Blizzard developers generally felt happy about the re-vamped Azeroth, and thought it was a necessary evil for the greater good of the game's lifespan, it's also the case that looking back, they seem to feel that it took way too much time from the endgame content.
    2. While Uldum and all the other new zones were cool, they realised after some time that it offered a very shattered and inconsistent experience to the players. They preferred going back to the one continent model after that.

    These two 'facts' have one implication: Blizzard would neither like to revamp another world so soon, considering how disastrous that was for endgame and subscribers the last time around; nor would they place a bunch of new endgame zones around the current Outland map, as that would give us a disjointed experience.

    So maybe they'll invent another landmass, a new continent, that survived the destruction of Draenor? While this isn't unthinkable, it does create problems with the lore. The name Warlords of Draenor, and the speculated reasons for us going back there, implies lots of lore from Beyond the Dark Portal - which is all set around the Outland we currently have. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly move all of that lore to a new Draenor continent. Which brings us back to the other problem, that they are unlikely to do another Cataclysm re-vamp which would take too much time away from endgame content.

    What are your thoughts on this? Again, I'm not bashing the idea of going back, I'm just trying to see how it would work.
    Not enough info to support anything you said. Normally, I am the one to jump down blizz throat on silly shit they do, but right now, we just don't know enough to form an opinion.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by igame View Post
    Not enough info to support anything you said. Normally, I am the one to jump down blizz throat on silly shit they do, but right now, we just don't know enough to form an opinion.
    I'm not criticising anything - don't get me wrong. I'm discussing the currently popular theories of us returning to a re-vamped "Old Outland" through means of time travel.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Jekyll's Avatar
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    Did I miss something? Which part of WOD mentioned about revamping outlands?

  5. #5
    Warchief Kuthe's Avatar
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    Honestly Outland is bigger than what we saw.
    I reckon if we go back to Draenor as the title makes it seem, we will be viewing the areas we currently were unable to.
    After all, there is the last Alliance Army and such hiding away somewhere.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Barendon's Avatar
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    If the rumor is true, we go back in time to the real draenor where none of the zones in current outland exist. Apart from nagrand and the black temple perhaps. So, in short , they can make a whole new "continent" without revamping outland.

    Bounty Hunters club 4life

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Did I miss something? Which part of WOD mentioned about revamping outlands?
    The current popular time travel theory holds that we go back to Outland in its former, pre-destruction state. That obviously implies a re-vamped Outland, justified by time travel. Same geography, other politics, new flora and fauna, etc.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
    Author of: World Enhancement Patch 1.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    What ho,

    I'm not here to whine. I love the idea of some old-fashioned Warcraft 2 combat. Maybe we can even dream of hearing some Warcraft 2 music in the soundtrack, but orchestrated.

    But there are obvious implications to the Warlords of Draenor theories flying around, and also obvious problems with going back to Outland.

    Have you guys already forgotten about Cataclysm?


    1. While Blizzard developers generally felt happy about the re-vamped Azeroth, and thought it was a necessary evil for the greater good of the game's lifespan, it's also the case that looking back, they seem to feel that it took way too much time from the endgame content.

    2. While Uldum and all the other new zones were cool, they realised after some time that it offered a very shattered and inconsistent experience to the players. They preferred going back to the one continent model after that.


    These two 'facts' have one implication: Blizzard would neither like to revamp another world so soon, considering how disastrous that was for endgame and subscribers the last time around; nor would they place a bunch of new endgame zones around the current Outland map, as that would give us a disjointed experience.

    So maybe they'll invent another landmass, a new continent, that survived the destruction of Draenor? While this isn't unthinkable, it does create problems with the lore. The name Warlords of Draenor, and the speculated reasons for us going back there, implies lots of lore from Beyond the Dark Portal - which is all set around the Outland we currently have. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly move all of that lore to a new Draenor continent. Which brings us back to the other problem, that they are unlikely to do another Cataclysm re-vamp which would take too much time away from endgame content.

    What are your thoughts on this? Again, I'm not bashing the idea of going back, I'm just trying to see how it would work.
    Personally, I'm skeptical that Warlords of Draenor is even legit.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    If the rumor is true, we go back in time to the real draenor where none of the zones in current outland exist. Apart from nagrand and the black temple perhaps. So, in short , they can make a whole new "continent" without revamping outland.
    The Outland zones all existed prior to the destruction of Draenor, to my knowledge. They were certainly more lush and fertile, sure. But they were there.


    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    The current popular time travel theory holds that we go back to Outland in its former, pre-destruction state. That obviously implies a re-vamped Outland, justified by time travel. Same geography, other politics, new flora and fauna, etc.
    No, that implies a new 'zone' taking place in Outland years ago.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    It's hardly known if it'll be Cataclysm 2.0 if they go back and fix up Outlands content whilst introducing new stuff, especially as it feels out of place after 3 expansions both levelling and lore wise. You'd only really have a valid excuse for calling it that is if they only do well with the area that is smaller than EK and K combined and stiff everyone on the new content (which is assumed to be time travel based and frankly fine with me). Then again I do have some slight doubts about the trademark as I did with HotS...

  12. #12
    IF the next expansion is set in Draenor I think them overhauling Outland, now the stand out painful levelling experience, is very likely.

    Cataclysm-ing Outland should involve less work overall than cataclysm-ing EK and Kalimdor.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    I'm just trying to see how it would work.
    That's why we're already having a "problem"?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    No, that implies a new 'zone' taking place in Outland years ago.
    Yes, and that zone will be a re-vamped "Old" zone, because pre-destruction Draenor had the same geography (more or less) and Outland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    It's hardly known if it'll be Cataclysm 2.0 if they go back and fix up Outlands content whilst introducing new stuff, especially as it feels out of place after 3 years both levelling and lore wise. You'd only really have a valid excuse for calling it that is if they only do well with the area that is smaller than EK and K combined and stiff everyone on the new content (which is assumed to be time travel based and frankly fine with me). Then again I do have some slight doubts about the trademark as I did with HotS...
    Well, it certainly runs the risk of being a Cata 2.0. I agree that Outland needs to be a little bit refurbished, or at least be placed in a Caverns of Time dungeon to explain why new players can hop in there after the Shattering. But spending an expansion re-vamping it? Not so sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    That's why we're already having a "problem"?
    I didn't create the problem, I just pointed it out.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
    Author of: World Enhancement Patch 1.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)

  15. #15
    My biggest peeve with it is that it's no more than a waste. The name implies that we'll be hanging out in Outland, obviously. Contrary to much more interesting places like Xoroth or Argus. So no thank you, not a fan.


    Even less of a fan of the alleged plot posted by the OP of the 'future of wow' thread, who was the first to mention the name Warlords of Draenor.
    Last edited by Yarathir; 2013-11-02 at 10:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  16. #16
    I doubt they will make the Cataclysm mistake this soon. If we do go back to Draenor, I think it will be the part that we haven't seen yet. Maybe even Argus, perhaps?

    Or, it could be Cataclysm 2.0 with Outland totally re-vamped. This could explain why they are on a hiring craze to have the largest team ever -- to support the remaking of Outland, without the expense of less endgame content, like was the mistake in Cata.

    There is a lot of chatter on remaking Outland, however I don't think BC or Wrath zones need updating. They're fine. Vanilla zones were terrible because they were old, outdated, with a terrible questing system. Outland and Northrend don't really have those problems.
    Last edited by ablib; 2013-11-02 at 10:33 AM.

  17. #17
    Vashj'ir was also cool!

  18. #18
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Draenor/Outland is more than we have visited so far. They won't have to redo the old zones if they don't wish to.

  19. #19
    The problem with Cataclysm was that they had to remake two entire continents. And by remake it's not just questing: they had to adjust terrain and create lots and lots of new arts just so we could fly in the old world. Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor had 40 zones to be remade. That left them with little time and resources to spend on making level 85 content. To make matter worse, the remade old continents were done just for leveling. At level 85, you had no reason to go back to Arathi or Ashenvale to see all their work. Had they also done high level content around the world, things would feel better.

    Outland, on the other hand, has 7 zones that will need very little work besides questing and updating a few areas (no need to make the continent flyable, since it already is). Plus, they'd be wise to make leveling questing quick and simple, while leaving areas and quests to be done at max level, so we go to Outland to level from 60-70 (I actually hope they extend it to 60-80 actually, so a future Northrend revamp also makes Northrend 60-80, creating two paths for leveling), but then return there at max level to do more things.

    Also, the new areas, whatever they be, will probably not feel like Cataclysm areas, which were far apart from each other both physically and thematically. Maybe we explore a second floating landmass east of Nagrand and Zangarmash, divided into zeveral high-level zones.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2013-11-02 at 10:43 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Draenor/Outland is more than we have visited so far. They won't have to redo the old zones if they don't wish to.
    But like I mention in the OP; how would you then explain the name 'Warlords of Draenor', as well as the currently popular theory, which involves lore from Beyond the Dark Portal? The Orcish clans were mostly centred around what is today Outland. Why would they suddenly move all of that into a new Draenor continent?
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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