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  1. #341
    I am Murloc! crakerjack's Avatar
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    I quit for plenty of reasons... but the biggest one that comes to mind is the removal of rating requirement on PvP gear. It was stupid as hell and the only opposing argument had little to no logic in it. People pretty much bitched and complained about why they suck at the game and can't PvP, so they removed the rating requirement. The most pathetic part about all of this was that the people who made the argument were bad players stuck at 1300 rating. "Even gear makes an even playing field" well maybe that would make sense if there wasn't MMR... but MMR purposely puts you in queue w/ people equal to your rating... so the whole "even playing field" is void when one realizes that they'll never play full gear 2200 players while they themselves is stuck at 1300 rating. That leads me to believe that rating requirement was removed based on BG perspectives and bad players being envious of better players.

    Since blizzard didn't logically think it through and realize that this entire complaint is based off of bad players wanted the same gear as good players, everyone is now running around in the same gear. Those bad players are STILL dying to the good players because they finally ran out of excuses to pull out of their bag and now they claim PvP sucks in general. This whole thing went down and blizzard didn't care... which lead me to realize that blizzard is 100% pro PvE... the only way I'd know blizzard wasn't bigots is if they would make it so all PvE content drops the same gear, meaning heroic drops the same as LFR etc... but people would complain about how it's harder, thus you deserve a better award... well that's how I felt when I was at 2500 rating... I thought I worked hard for my gear... not like my character had extra health, more abilities or some unique ability that made me win... I had to work for it... but nooooo, it was all stripped away because some bad players think it's easier to make an illogical opinion rather than getting better at the game.

    Like I said, there's more, but that was the main thing that made me quit... slowly lost interest in the game after that point.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  2. #342
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    there is no one main reason /thread
    Yes, there is. It's basic economics, products that are outdated drop in popularity. Just like you're trading in your old phone for a new one, so too are people switching from WoW to something newer. It's really as simple as that.

    Yeah, other things may factor in somewhere but the main reason is simply the game being outdated. The game is simply in a state of decline and no amount of innovation or changes will reverse that direction.

    It's funny seeing people's reactions though. Some honestly believe that if Blizzard made a few changes that millions of people would come back. But ask yourself this question, would you go back to using your Nokia 3310 over your new iPhone? Because that's pretty much the same thing.

  3. #343
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    I reckon its the mmo-genre in general.. It needs something "new" - its outdated, and people are getting quite bored with it.
    I like juice

  4. #344
    An old sub based game is never going to attract as many new players as it loses due to people getting bored of it.

    WOW also has a reputation even among those who have never played it as something that social outcasts play... That probably puts off a lot of people from even trying it out.

  5. #345
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Yes, there is. It's basic economics, products that are outdated drop in popularity. Just like you're trading in your old phone for a new one, so too are people switching from WoW to something newer. It's really as simple as that.

    The game is simply in a state of decline and no amount of innovation or changes will reverse that direction.

    It's funny seeing people's reactions though. Some honestly believe that if Blizzard made a few changes that millions of people would come back. But ask yourself this question, would you go back to using your Nokia 3310 over your new iPhone? Because that's pretty much the same thing.
    Strongly disagree. We are in the worst period of gaming in over ten years IMO, there is nothing better than Wow in this genre but unfortunately Blizz have dropped the ball on this game in last 3 years and chased other products thinking the Wow subs were safe till 2015. And they are not so now they are going for it on a massive scale which is what we will see next week.

    Your analogies are not correct. There is no new iphone if Wow is the old Nokia. For example, I tried GW2 and I thought it was rubbish, all style and no substance and I hated the style but that's a personal thing. I played Bioshock Infinite (supposedly one of the games of the year) - all style and no substance. I could list many titles that suffer from this. We live in a extraordinarily piss poor era of gaming that will pass but a lot of people don't realise how much rubbish is being dished out towards us.

    I am not enjoying Wow at all at the moment, I'm bored silly, but if I look at my steam titles from last year and there's quite a few, they are all just as boring.

  6. #346
    Here's a fair list for you;

    - The game is too hard.
    - The game is too easy.
    - The game is too similar to how it has always been.
    - The game has changed too much from the original.
    - The game takes no skill to play.
    - The game takes too much skill to play.

    etc, on and on.

    For each person that quit, they have their own reasons. For me, the game became too casual friendly, which resulted in a loss of carrot on the stick. I could easily see everything the game had to offer in a week tops. To me, that was the major cause. For someone else though, they may think the complete opposite.

  7. #347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    You know, WoW cartoonish game styled graphics is the reason i keep playing, it's in my opinion better then any MMORPG. (personal opinion)
    A game can have both good-looking graphics and a cartoonish style. Just look at how the Pandaren models differ from any old races. Imagine if they rehauled the entire game like that - redoing every model with better graphics, and not just characters but objects and areas as well. I'd tap that!

    A WoW 2 wouldn't work though. The Warcraft universe has been milked enough IMO, there's only a few storylines left open (Azshara, Burning Legion, Emerald Dream, etc) and a lot of people think the next expansion will feature at least one of those. It's time for something new.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Given that it's a wow clone, like Rift, if ToR's gamplay is themepark, so is wow's... anyway, you seem to forget the part where I mentioned it was stale, or rather static and slow, but i recenlty schecked, they do more frequent updates than wow, so part of me is thinking you're still characterized by your experience of it 2 years ago, when most of the fanboys brought it, played all it's content, then quit it in frustration because at that time they didn't have much of an end game. but I don't know if you were one of them so maybe it doesn't apply.

    Still my opinion remains unchanged, I meant what I said about WoW. Blizzard are hardworking and committed to this, I can't say the same for Bioware and SWtOR
    Yes, indeed, "So is WoW's", yesss and that's part of the problem!! I just repeated it, not once but several times in this very thread, I said, they're BOTH themepark designs, (every single game you mentioned so far in thread as a matter of fact, is) and therefore are all boring, stale, static! Even the great, lauded GW2 that was supposed to 'revolutionize' the themepark design into something fun!! xD

    The only thing Blizz is committed to is making money, the 1 way they could genuinely be said to be 'hardworking' is in making game dev decisions that help increase ATVI's stock share price in the end. There is no difference between looking at members of US Congress, to give you an example, and saying "Ooh they're hardworking folks!!" & saying that, about a PUBLIC corporation like Activision-Blizzard. They've been scared of doing anything sandboxy & truly dynamic/engaging to wow for over 8 years now, because that might be revolutionary/risky/untested waters, and that's not what narrow-minded, visionless investors / executives / shareholders want.., and it's still not showing signs of being any different.

    Same as WoW's boring themeparkianism, for all the other companies releasing/maintaining big mainstream themepark games, like :

    ~> -TOR- (Star Wars Old Republic ~ I know, great, moving storylines, unique item slot/'enchanting'/modification scheme, & companions, wow, all this will magically NOT make me bored to death after I've played a bit & done the storylines over..?? Can I go over to distant planets & take over bases/cities/ships & help raise an empire dynamically..?? Against PvE or PvP opponents or both?? Can I have any impact whatsoever in the gameworld that doesn't get wiped off the minute I'm done w/ that quest/move on to play another character/or in another game zone..??)
    ~> -Rift- (Whoa no 'real' class or spec restrictions..?? I can pick & mix any talents/spells together & make my own class (sort of), taking on different combat roles as needed in a fight? And what do I do this fighting in question, for..?? Oh, to repeat the same old boring themepark gear/content treadmills & inconsequential PvP? Ahh haha I see..)
    ~> -WS/WSO- (WildStar ~ Oohh look edgy hardmode, old-school, bring back the challenge, but guess what - What're the players doing these difficult raids & hardcore content for..?? That's right, for no reason other than stat gains & 'content cleared' badges of honor on their toons! Not for actual lasting (even if short time), dynamic, engaging game world impact!!)(Out in 2014)
    ~> -FFXIV- (Ohh look, old school & PITA-asian-hard gameplay, but guess what, still the same old static gear/content systems as the other themeparks! Still boring!)
    ~> -GW2- (What's that? Refreshingly different combat/item-based skills mechanics? No real set class roles/forced 'trinity'?? New paradigms in world exploration & (very limited) personal story? Well, I've to say, that starts to sound like it just MAY not be repetitive & inconsequential/unchallenging/unengaging enough to be considered yet another of those boring themepark designs, this is almost sandpark or sandboxy themepark!! & + WvWvW too.. Hmm..!! Well, grats!! Now if I can get a PC that can run this finally.. (I'm broke and I've a dinosaur ;p)
    ~> -TESO- (Even that drooled-over Elder Scrolls paragon, is set to be the biggest classic themepark example of modern mmo days)(Out in 2014)
    ~> -TSW- (The Secret World ~ Ooh mysterious world conspiracies & cryptics, guess what, STILL boring themepark gameplay)
    ~> -MVUO(?)- (Marvel Universe aka The Avengers/Hulk/Capt America/Ironman etc)
    ~> -Destiny- (Activision/Bungie's MMOFPS, not out till 2016+)
    ~> -CoH/CoV- (City of Heroes/Villains, passed away)
    ~> -DCUO- (DC Universe aka Batman/Superman etc)
    ~> -LotRO- (Lord of the Rings)
    ~> -AoC- (Age of Conan)
    ~> -STO- (Star Trek)
    ~> -D&DO-
    ~> -TERA-
    ~> -Aion-
    ~> -EQ2-

    Now there's a small chance somewhat sandboxy upcoming games like ArcheAge & EQ3 (EQ Next), and even Blizz's Titan or WoW2, may bring about a truly mix between dynamic sandbox fun but without the confusing void of e.g. EvE Online open-ended lack of direction making lots of new players just feel 'lost' (what do I do next, where should I go) :

    ~> -AAge- (Asian-style, who knows if it'll be sandboxy enough to be continuously engaging, but I doubt it =/)(Was out in Asia this year, Out in USA next year)
    ~> -EQ3- (EQ Next, drooled-over as the savior of MMOs, apparently custom housing makes a game totally awesome-sandbox, yea.. =/)(Not out till 2017+)
    ~> -Titan- (Blizz obviously waiting for ATVI's Destiny to be released before finishing work on TT, given that it's pretty much the same themes (as Assassins' Creed..... ;p) for both games..)(Not out till 2019+)
    ~> -TRP- (The Repopulation, not out till 2016+?)
    ~> -WoW2- (Not out till 2024+)

    See, you need strong sandbox features, in your themepark game, to make it fun, make it last, without a constant churn of players subbing in & out because they can't justify staying just to login daily (after a while, when they seen the sights) to simply idle in capital cities/LFR, bored, the same repetitive undriven gameplay time after time, the meaningless gear treadmill, so they just quit.

    In a sandbox design or at least a solidly sandboxy-themepark, you won't have that, since the very core of the gameplay & game world systems is specifically set to encourage dynamic, engaging, immersive, challenging player interaction w/ their world and w/ the PvE & PvP components of the game. It makes you CARE, it makes you EXHILARATED when you play, EVERYTIME, not just THE FIRST TIME YOU ENTER THAT ONE RAID etc, & it makes you WANT to 'win' whatever battles you fight in the game because they have intrinsically TANGIBLE rewards attached to them that actually change something in your & others' gameplay, not just 'candy' rewards that add +stats, +loot/game currencies, or +achievements/pets/mounts/titles/gear appearance options. You get tired of getting those themeparky rewards (the stats/gear/loot/pets/mounts/achievs etc type) after a while - because they don't really matter, don't really change your gameplay meaningfully. You already had tons of pets, mounts, stats, gear, great looks, tons of achievs, what more are these extra ones gonna provide..?? =/

    So, what IS a real sandbox then? One that truly makes you want to play & play more, without feeling tired or repetitive usually..?? Well :

    ~> -PFO- (Pathfinder Online, based on Pathfinder RPG which is the biggest non-D&D tabletop RPG system at the moment, is designed/started by ex-Wizards employees & is THE spiritual successor to old AD&D2 & D&D3.5 basically)(Out in 2015)
    ~> -SCO/SCz- (Star Citizen Online, one of the biggest KStarter project successes ever and getting bigger by the day)(2015+)
    ~> -WoD- (World of Darkness Online, also made by CCP Games, not out till 2018+)
    ~> -EvE- (EvE Online & Valkyrie/Dust-514, of course, made by CCP Games)
    ~> -MO- (Mortal Online, it's very small, struggling, underdeveloped though =/)
    ~> -EoC- (Embers of Caerus, near-vaporware for ages to come still =/)

    ~> -EI- & -??- (..&, Of course, last but not least.. My very own 2 MMO designs.. over a decade in the making ;p)(Not out till 2023+ & 2030+)
    Last edited by Planetarism; 2013-10-29 at 11:51 PM.
    >>> And then.. <<<

  9. #349
    I think the MAIN reason is..... Cataclysm

    That expansion brought a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth, and MoP\s trailer got ruined when the panda showed up, this all combined does not help bringing players back. The whole ''the game is old'' thing started with Cataclysm, which was the expansion that truely showed WoW's age.

  10. #350
    Deleted
    To answer the topic: the subs are declining because the number of people leaving the game is greater than the number of people (re)joining the game.

    People grow tired of most games. MMORPGs are played very intensively for a few years, but during that time it's easy to get "burned out". People grow up, get jobs, etc. It's only normal that people leave the game. And to a lot of them, quitting WoW feels almost like a relief.

    As for why less and less people start playing: I think that almost every person of age (say, 14+) who's ever had the desire to play WoW, has either tried it by now, or given up on that desire. There's still a small number of people who start playing for the first time these days, but this number is WAY smaller than what it used to be. Kids are inclined to play more popular games, like CoD and LoL. Aside from that, there's a lot of bad rep going around these days, about how "WoW is ruined" and "WoW will never be like Vanilla/TBC/WotLK again". This has some influence on potential new players as well.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    imo, the game just looks and feels dated.

    Compare it to all the more recent games, what's WoW missing? - it looks OLD .. but is it the vintage kind of old wine feel to you? or is it more like old people's home old feel?

    imo, do a WoW 2, wrap up this one in the next 2-3 years and relaunch the game and this time with an engine they can upgrade.. a more long term vision.

    I'm not sure if any amount of tweaking would make a difference... do you know of anything blizzard could do to attract your friends that quit?
    The graphics mean nothing to me at all. There's plenty more that WoW is failing in:

    - PvE progression outside of raiding (Dungeons/Scenarios have no progression whatsoever.
    - PvP progression outside of RBGs and Arenas (non-rated BGs are equivalent to Dungeons/Scenarios in the PvP world)
    - Progression you can do alone (like proving grounds, except something that actually benefits you)
    - Actual PvP balancing
    - Completely removing pures (changing them into Hybrids) or giving them some form of utility (similar to how Warlocks are wanted for Healthstones, Gateways, and sometimes Battle Rezzes). There aren't many games today that have a few classes (not specs) that can only do one role anymore.
    - A fourth role to break the "Holy Trinity", because the trinity is stupid. Support role would be awesome to have, like a Tinker/Engineer to drop a healing turret while DPSing or a Bard to sing songs that provide buffs while casting some offensive magic or melee attacks (think Druids [or Red Mages!] that could perform multiple roles simultaneously, but not be the best of any. They'd still be brought because they're incredibly helpful).
    - Any amount of single player content that isn't purely doing old content or leveling up, because sometimes you really don't want to group with people. (Technically, this is what LFR is, but you still have deal with 24 random fucks you don't want to be with)
    - Thought out dungeons and their difficulty. Fairly challenging dungeons like Cataclysm's Launch and Pre-LK were actually really fun. Mass AoE-fests that people don't even do because of LFR and H Scenarios just ruins the entire point of having dungeons.
    - Scenarios (and Heroic ones) to actually have a purpose outside of the most effective VP gain. (The gear level is horrendous in Normal and too RNG in Heroic)
    - Many classes desperately need revamping (including all Pures besides Warlock, and a few specs in some of the Hybrids)

    Just a few things.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  12. #352
    I think one of the issues moving forward is that PC gaming is dwindling. The concept of a personal desktop computer is aged and unnecessary for a majority of people. With smart phones, laptops, and tablets fulfilling most of the functionality of the desktop PC for your average household added on to the growing capabilities of consoles to act as entertainment centers rather than video games, the idea of spending hundreds or more dollars on a PC just for gaming is absurd.

    Looking forward I think the future of MMOs will move away from the PC and towards consoles with games like Destiny. Blizzard seems to be realizing this in their attempt to incorporate the Diablo franchise into the console market as well.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I quit for plenty of reasons... but the biggest one that comes to mind is the removal of rating requirement on PvP gear. It was stupid as hell and the only opposing argument had little to no logic in it. People pretty much bitched and complained about why they suck at the game and can't PvP, so they removed the rating requirement. The most pathetic part about all of this was that the people who made the argument were bad players stuck at 1300 rating. "Even gear makes an even playing field" well maybe that would make sense if there wasn't MMR... but MMR purposely puts you in queue w/ people equal to your rating... so the whole "even playing field" is void when one realizes that they'll never play full gear 2200 players while they themselves is stuck at 1300 rating. That leads me to believe that rating requirement was removed based on BG perspectives and bad players being envious of better players.

    Since blizzard didn't logically think it through and realize that this entire complaint is based off of bad players wanted the same gear as good players, everyone is now running around in the same gear. Those bad players are STILL dying to the good players because they finally ran out of excuses to pull out of their bag and now they claim PvP sucks in general. This whole thing went down and blizzard didn't care... which lead me to realize that blizzard is 100% pro PvE... the only way I'd know blizzard wasn't bigots is if they would make it so all PvE content drops the same gear, meaning heroic drops the same as LFR etc... but people would complain about how it's harder, thus you deserve a better award... well that's how I felt when I was at 2500 rating... I thought I worked hard for my gear... not like my character had extra health, more abilities or some unique ability that made me win... I had to work for it... but nooooo, it was all stripped away because some bad players think it's easier to make an illogical opinion rather than getting better at the game.

    Like I said, there's more, but that was the main thing that made me quit... slowly lost interest in the game after that point.
    ....but, gear SHOULD be equal in a PVP environment. There shouldn't even be any gear at all in it :x

    What are the benefits of it mattering, versus those of it not mattering, anyways? About the only place equipment matters in a PVP landscapee is in Pay to win games, older MMOs, and WoW. (And possibly Battlefield 3 and 4) That's about it, that I can think of! Right off the bat, I think you're making the mistake of assuming everyone plays arena or Rated BGs, and that's all that matters, when the opposite is true :x I imagine the general complaint stemmed from random BGs being too wildly unbalanced, gear wise, as that's the content, PVP wise, that the greater majority of players are stuck doing, and will continue to be stuck doing.

    I do think Blizzard doesn't care much about PVP too, though.

  14. #354
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Other than the game is now 9 years old, and has been played by everyone and their mothers (literally)?

  15. #355
    I put it down to the MMO market in general it's stagnated. Many new MMOs simply don't try enough to show creativity they simply copy WoW's formula as Mark Keen said earlier this year. WoW's population will continue to decline and like many of the new MMOs they are simply not creative enough to bring a breath of fresh air into the game.

    It's like giving someone a piece of cake every day eventually people are going to become bored of that cake unless you mix things up. WoW does not do this which is why I believe it's numbers are declining and why I believe many new MMOs simply cannot take off.

  16. #356
    Deleted
    A few things that have made the game less interesting :

    1 - No community since LFR/wotlk. Community died after wotlk. Nowadays its just Empty friends list and guilds just for perks.

    2 - Class homgeneralisarion. Classes play too similar, classes loose their niche spells.
    Too many classes have stealth mechanics now for example.
    Classes no longer have weaknesses: paladins have sprints for example and rogues have aoe. Back in the day, you'd have to work togther to cover each others weaknesses but now you can pretty much do it yourself.

    3 - Progression is too quick with existing catch up mechanics, you can actually skip (old) content, and the game gets boring quicker. A much better system would :
    ~ have been to simple have more loot drop more oftern from lower level content after each patch to gear up quicker.
    ~ Introduce a damage buff to older raids
    ~ Lower the lock out period to lower level raids, so you can raid it more oftern.

    4 - Items no longer feel epic.
    Why bother to get a "heroic" version when it looks the exact same as the LFR version and you've already seen the content. LFR is like completing the game with cheat codes, sure its fun but there's no desire to replay something you've done - just to get better loot, to reraid what you've just done especially without a community (see point 1).

    5 - Shared 25 and 10 man loot and lock outs = less PUGs (see point 1 and 4) and less time spent raiding.

    6 - Poor class design or broken classes (see point 2). Some players feeling that their favourite class is no longer disersirable or compitant in pvp or pve and they do not wish to reroll.

    7 - Transmodification has destroyed the incentive to get new gear that "looks good" primarily because it doesn't look good and youll want to transmod it anyway.

    8 - Stat and damage inflation.
    This makes getting new gear hugely unappealing as there is no longer any emotional connection with it or sense of power.
    Numbers are now so high they lack meaning, both for damage output and for stats on gear. I couldnt tell you what the dps of my weapons say any more, I don't even look at the stats of my gear any more. I just look at the item level or tier and assume its an upgrade.

    9 - Percentages instead of numbers
    I liked the days back when blessing of might or battle shout gave you X amount of attack power, or hemo increased damage taken to the target by X per charge. It was more interesting than "kings buffs you 5%". Also see point 2.

    10- Legandaries becoming "requirements" for raids
    They're supposed to be rare and hard to get. I'm not saying legendaries are easy to get but the cloak isn't exactly rare amy more. I remember I'd see a person with warglavies and you'd tell your friends about him just so they'd fly to shattarath and inspect him - that doesn't happen any more because of point 1, 3, 4, 7, and 8 at least.

    11 - Lack of healers and tanks available for a raid.
    You cant just get 10 players togther for a raid, you've then got to find tanks and healers. Not necessarily a drawback, I can't suggest an alternative, but it is a complication and an obstruction into exploring new content.

    Perhaps a better system would be to not require classes to have drastically different gear to perform a different roles - so providing a tank class has a tank spec, they can tank in dps gear or a healer can heal in dps gear.

    This was almost going back to a vanilla system where gear was muddled, but still somewhat interesting.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a system where for example having "varied" multi-skilled gear IS the hybrid tax and only pure dps classes have pure dps armour.

  17. #357
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetarism View Post
    See, you need strong sandbox features, in your themepark game, to make it fun, make it last, without a constant churn of players subbing in & out because they can't justify staying just to login daily (after a while, when they seen the sights) to simply idle in capital cities/LFR, bored, the same repetitive undriven gameplay time after time, the meaningless gear treadmill, so they just quit.

    In a sandbox design or at least a solidly sandboxy-themepark, you won't have that, since the very core of the gameplay & game world systems is specifically set to encourage dynamic, engaging, immersive, challenging player interaction w/ their world and w/ the PvE & PvP components of the game. It makes you CARE, it makes you EXHILARATED when you play, EVERYTIME, not just THE FIRST TIME YOU ENTER THAT ONE RAID etc, & it makes you WANT to 'win' whatever battles you fight in the game because they have intrinsically TANGIBLE rewards attached to them that actually change something in your & others' gameplay, not just 'candy' rewards that add +stats, +loot/game currencies, or +achievements/pets/mounts/titles/gear appearance options. You get tired of getting those themeparky rewards (the stats/gear/loot/pets/mounts/achievs etc type) after a while - because they don't really matter, don't really change your gameplay meaningfully. You already had tons of pets, mounts, stats, gear, great looks, tons of achievs, what more are these extra ones gonna provide..?? =/
    Brilliant post. Captures the failures of modern WoW attempts to evolve perfectly.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  18. #358
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    Greg Street.

  19. #359
    Business model. WoW has come such a long way that in order to sustain its aging glory, it has to adapt and cater to various audiences to keep the money coming. Cater to the hardcore and only a small population of people can access the content, leading to less subs. Cater to the casuals and people leave the game for something worth investing time in, not feeling pressured or challenged. Basically, the game's age is showing with the various directions its taken with each expansion.

  20. #360
    I'm not a social person in real life. I don't like groups or parties or crowds of any type. But my best memories of WoW are from the time when people in a close-knit guild would work together to accomplish cool things.

    I remember things like working hard to get enough guild members keyed so we could run Kara, or working all the way through the immensity of BRD with a guild group. I also remember when the BGs took place entirely on your server and you formed epic rivalries and relationships with other players.

    But this is all gone. The real quality social aspect of the game is long lost. Everything is a grind done fast with strangers. Push a button and get a queue then zoom silently through just so you can finish quick and then go grind out some more. It's a real rats in a maze kind of thing at this point.

    Most players join immense impersonal guilds just to get the perks because you're gimping yourself if you're not in a level 25 guild. Then they just queue up to grind away with strangers from other servers. It's sad. WoW may still have millions of players but it's a dead game because it long ago lost it's soul.

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