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  1. #1

    Paragons of the Klaxxi boomkin strategy?

    Hello
    On PotK, is it best to single target one target or multi-dot them so we get procs? What is the best dps increase on normal difficulty? Is it worth multi-dotting? Also, is DoC or HotW a better choice to pick on that fight?

  2. #2
    with the change to how SS procs, it isn't a SINGLE TARGET dps boost to dot a 'meaningless' target anymore (like what we use to do with Megeara heads)

    With that being said... it is very nice meter padding/WoL rankings = skumbagging your raid. in which case u want to run DoC.

    even with that being said, when a boss is ~4 seconds away from dying I will dot up the other 2 with the final GCD's instead of 2-3 hard casts on dying target. even if the remaining two are NOT next kill targets but new one is.. as even thought it has been reduced, still having multi dots running will give you more SS procs for the newly coming boss. (I also like to time it so i still have the 3 stacks of ... can't remember the short buff you get for casting dot to increase dot application dmg... buff when the New target is picked for killing so i can hit it with harder dots at the start.

    As posted in other places, DoC is theoretically a win for a lot of fights... but i have tended to shy away from it for MOST fights just b/c WHEN DoC goes badly.. it goes VERY badly for your dps.

  3. #3
    With 4p T16, it is still beneficial to multi-dot for single target. You have a higher chance to proc SS up to 3 targets where it is approximately equal as before (1 and 2 targets have higher chance). At 4 and 5 targets, the chance is only slightly reduced.

    To give relative numbers..
    1 target:
    before change - 51%
    after with T16 - 61.56%
    2 target:
    before change - 75.99%
    after with T16 - 79.4423%
    3 target:
    before change - 87.4732%
    after with T16 - 88.2351%
    4 target:
    before change - 94.2352%
    after with T16 - 91.7812%
    5 target:
    before change - 97.1752%
    after with T16 - 94.3373%

    This is the chance to proc per tick cycle.. i.e. 5 targets assumes 10 ticks (which is true, on average).

    Anyways, the actual difference is negligible at higher targets once you've gotten T16 4p.
    Last edited by boomkinhero; 2013-10-23 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Thank you for the answers Really appreciate it

  5. #5
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    With 4p T16, it is still beneficial to multi-dot for single target. You have a higher chance to proc SS up to 3 targets where it is approximately equal as before (1 and 2 targets have higher chance). At 4 and 5 targets, the chance is only slightly reduced.

    To give relative numbers..
    1 target:
    before change - 51%
    after with T16 - 61.56%
    2 target:
    before change - 79.4423%
    after with T16 - 75.99%
    3 target:
    before change - 87.4732%
    after with T16 - 88.2351%
    4 target:
    before change - 94.2352%
    after with T16 - 91.7812%
    5 target:
    before change - 97.1752%
    after with T16 - 94.3373%

    This is the chance to proc per tick cycle.. i.e. 5 targets assumes 10 ticks (which is true, on average).

    Anyways, the actual difference is negligible at higher targets once you've gotten T16 4p.
    I have no idea what those percentages mean, or where they came from. Does 1 target mean only 1 target, or 1 additional target you are dotting besides the mob you are trying to kill?

    Even before 5.4, if your feet were planted it was a DPS loss on the target you were trying to kill to dot other things and it still is even with T16. The caveat here is movement. With no SS procs and the target you are trying to kill already dotted, it does seem to me to be beneficial to dot something else, with the hope to gain a SS proc on the mob you are killing. I don't have any math to back that up though, you would have to take the chance to get an additional SS proc by the dotting the extra mob, multiplied by the DPS of an instanst SS, and then subtract the opportunity cost (the direct damage portion of a Moonfire and a full Starfire cast, which would have been used instead of the extra SS).

  6. #6
    It's the probability you get a proc from crit tick per tick cycle. 1 target means 1 target. It's simply probability using 30% per tick as the "before change" or each additional target (.30 * .30 = .51; 51% chance for 1 target etc). The 'after with T16' uses the equation for multiple dots that was given with a .38 base (38%, as with T16 4p)

    Also I swapped the values on 2 target accidently; editing post to reflect the change.

    Multi-dotting for single target benefit is still a very fine line, just as it was before. If you want to get the real benefit you must prioritize SS usage (on the proper target) greatly above all else. i.e. only 1 cast away from leaving eclipse you would normally finish dotting targets (so one of the dots has eclipse bonus) over using a SS proc, but you can't if your sole concern is single target damage... otherwise you're just skum bagging the charts.

    I typically just get dots rolling on as much as I can before burst damage is needed (some add needs to die)
    Last edited by boomkinhero; 2013-10-23 at 11:15 PM.

  7. #7
    hotw is better on this particular fight as the spawns are not up as long as you wish, everything is suppose to be focus burned down and therefore you might not get the most benefit out of DoC buffed dot's / eclipses. Mainly for this fight it comes down to more of a choice between treants or incarnation and many have been taking incarnation for the fight as it is just easiest to line up.

  8. #8
    Do not multidot outside of CA on "worthless" targets. It's not a single target gain. If you have to move probably better than doing nothing if u have no procs up, but do not try to ever maintain dots for a single target gain. I think even during ca is debatable. Definately not more than 2 total targets (one extra).

    wayyy to much nonsense about multidotting for single target gain. Every time it's mentioned I think people are joking around, but apparently some people still believe it is true...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    wayyy to much nonsense about multidotting for single target gain. Every time it's mentioned I think people are joking around, but apparently some people still believe it is true...
    Felt this way from day 1 too. My assessment is simply that "if it was before, it still is now".

  10. #10
    Did it ever get fully confirmed which is best? I'm on klaxxi heroic progress atm and its hard to tell which method is best with the amount of rng that affects dps on each pull.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepster View Post
    Did it ever get fully confirmed which is best? I'm on klaxxi heroic progress atm and its hard to tell which method is best with the amount of rng that affects dps on each pull.
    Just focus on the mechanics. The only time I multidot on Paragons Heroic is during Korven/Hisek split push (obviously) and at the start before Bloodletting happens.

    Simcraft says it is a 3% single target DPS loss to multi-dot a second target and an 8% loss to multi-dot 3 targets.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2014-01-21 at 11:31 PM.

  12. #12
    Its weird because "Zoomkins" from Blood Legion who everyone thinks is top tier boomkin multidots the whole time on Klaxxi. Is he just scumbagging cuz progression is over or does he know something we dont.

  13. #13
    its the end of the expansion for those guilds they can dot whatever the fuck they want lol.



    this topic was beaten to death in Terrace of Endless Springs. If you want to dig back through a year of moonstuff on the Elitist Jerks thread someone posted the math - no, its not a single target gain. You are not being clever or minmaxing. Its padding, its all padding. That being said, multi-dotting the "worthless" adds is the manly way to play and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Last edited by crunk; 2014-01-23 at 09:02 PM.

  14. #14
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    For Blood Legion Heroic Paragons of the Klaxxi is farm and has been for quite some time. When my Guild does Normal Paragons of the Klaxxi everyone just pads the hell out of it because it's a joke.

    However for Heroic I'm focusing just on the current Boss and DOTing Swarmkeeper and Prime when we trick the Amber onto Swarmkeeper (like others have said already). Also Glyph of Guided Stars so your Starfall isn't breaking Parasite CC (Hibernate is amazing by the way) and so all your Starfall damage is focused on what matters.

    For Talents I've been running Incarnation and Heart of the Wild. Although sometimes I consider Force of Nature when there's a lot of moving but this is just personal preference. Incarnation is going to be more DPS with the Gear Levels by Heroic Paragons of the Klaxxi.

  15. #15
    Having multiple dots to increase my SS proc rate for things like Amber has been very beneficial. Of course if you are running with high item level gear with high critical rating, you don't need the extra dots to increase SS proc rate. Being unlucky, I might easily reach SS cooldown in single target dps, gaining 0 procs.
    Last edited by hermoraunio; 2014-01-24 at 07:07 AM.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral WillFeral's Avatar
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    Be a true boomkin and just spam moonfire the whole fight,thats how you get respect.
    Here come the Irish.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by WillFeral View Post
    Be a true boomkin and just spam moonfire the whole fight,thats how you get respect.
    +1

    Could still beat some classes if you did this correctly I bet.

  18. #18
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Just focus on the mechanics. The only time I multidot on Paragons Heroic is during Korven/Hisek split push (obviously) and at the start before Bloodletting happens.

    Simcraft says it is a 3% single target DPS loss to multi-dot a second target and an 8% loss to multi-dot 3 targets.
    I can agree both statements. Tried it both ways and multi doting only during CA and during the Korven/Hisek amber phase was best for Heroic. Normal is the same thing, unless you have super powered dots, aren't in range and are moving then there is no reason to multi dot unless during CA.
    Last edited by Souxlya; 2014-01-24 at 10:49 PM.

  19. #19
    While you have to move you might as well multidot, so you benefit from more SS procs when you are at your location. Or if healing needs help, throw rejuvs on raid while you move. But anything is better then just recast dots over and over on the target you are dpsing, cause chances are you override stronger ones.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    With 4p T16, it is still beneficial to multi-dot for single target. You have a higher chance to proc SS up to 3 targets where it is approximately equal as before (1 and 2 targets have higher chance). At 4 and 5 targets, the chance is only slightly reduced.

    To give relative numbers..
    1 target:
    before change - 51%
    after with T16 - 61.56%
    2 target:
    before change - 75.99%
    after with T16 - 79.4423%
    3 target:
    before change - 87.4732%
    after with T16 - 88.2351%
    4 target:
    before change - 94.2352%
    after with T16 - 91.7812%
    5 target:
    before change - 97.1752%
    after with T16 - 94.3373%

    This is the chance to proc per tick cycle.. i.e. 5 targets assumes 10 ticks (which is true, on average).

    Anyways, the actual difference is negligible at higher targets once you've gotten T16 4p.

    what is the math you are using? cause SS proc have 38% chance to proc on crit of MF/SF. In any case, your % chance of crit will modify any numb in your list, you cannot implie 100% crit chance on MF/SF

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