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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Timeless Isle (Which is an actual zone) says you are incorrect.
    As does the Isle of Giants.
    Eversong Woods and Ghostlands build your argument's coffin.
    Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isle nail it shut.

    All of the above do not have flying, yet are still able to be played. They are built in with the fundamental tenet that flight does not exist. Are those not 'actual facts that can be witnessed inside the game?'

    Tell me again who's blocking out the opposing side.
    He only needs to find one zone where you have to fly to do something. You have to prove that no such zone exists.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    You are arguing from a point mutual exclusiveness which isn't the case. You are saying if this sometimes doesn't exist, then it never exists. This is a logical fallacy.
    I am not arguing that, I am arguing that flight does not need to exist, and those zones prove my point. Does the game suddenly crash when entering these areas? Does the game stutter or break because we can't reach the top of the mountain with nothing on it? No? Then it's not required, and the design of the world can be built independent of flight. The world is built without flight in mind; Mobs and structures are placed with flight in mind because it is there. It can just as easily be said that the devs could place mobs in areas that do not require flight, and the game would be just as good. Therefore, flight is not fundamental. It is not a rule that must be followed, it is a perk that allows more options.

    I am arguing from a position of 'this exists, so it always exists'. Do you see the difference?
    Then your argument is nonexistant. You shouldn't have to argue something that exists exists. What you're really saying is that flight is fundamental because it exists in game. I am arguing that something that exists in game does not NEED to be used at all. Flight is not at ALL a required part of the game, and the fact you aren't getting that from my arguments only means that I'm not doing a good job getting that across.

    Talking down to someone isn't the greatest way to prove a point. Especially when you don't even understand the other person's argument. I've already stated, I don't give a damn whether flight stays or goes. My only argument here is: Flight does not have to exist. It is not fundamental, the game can easily be built without it, and none of the current 'inaccessible without flight' areas bar changes that would make them accessible without flight.

    inb4: semantics, I'm done with this. I can only try talking to people when they actually try to talk back, not talk down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    He only needs to find one zone where you have to fly to do something. You have to prove that no such zone exists.
    Read this post. I am not trying to prove flight doesn't exist, for christ sake.

  3. #243
    i'm not sure where the idea comes from that unlocking flying in TBC took a long time.
    everyone who wasn't waste full with their gold could pretty much afford flying the moment they hit lvl 70.
    sure the 280% speed took a bit longer, but that wasn't really long also.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I am not arguing that, I am arguing that flight does not need to exist, and those zones prove my point. Does the game suddenly crash when entering these areas? Does the game stutter or break because we can't reach the top of the mountain with nothing on it? No? Then it's not required, and the design of the world can be built independent of flight. The world is built without flight in mind; Mobs and structures are placed with flight in mind because it is there. It can just as easily be said that the devs could place mobs in areas that do not require flight, and the game would be just as good. Therefore, flight is not fundamental. It is not a rule that must be followed, it is a perk that allows more options.



    Then your argument is nonexistant. You shouldn't have to argue something that exists exists. What you're really saying is that flight is fundamental because it exists in game. I am arguing that something that exists in game does not NEED to be used at all. Flight is not at ALL a required part of the game, and the fact you aren't getting that from my arguments only means that I'm not doing a good job getting that across.

    Talking down to someone isn't the greatest way to prove a point. Especially when you don't even understand the other person's argument. I've already stated, I don't give a damn whether flight stays or goes. My only argument here is: Flight does not have to exist. It is not fundamental, the game can easily be built without it, and none of the current 'inaccessible without flight' areas bar changes that would make them accessible without flight.

    inb4: semantics, I'm done with this. I can only try talking to people when they actually try to talk back, not talk down.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Read this post. I am not trying to prove flight doesn't exist, for christ sake.
    You could of just admitted you were incorrect but instead you travel down a silly path where you become a verbal contortionist in a bizarre attempt to be right all the time. It is slightly entertaining but a mostly mind numbing experience.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You could of just admitted you were incorrect but instead you travel down a silly path where you become a verbal contortionist in a bizarre attempt to be right all the time. It is slightly entertaining but a mostly mind numbing experience.
    Except I wasn't incorrect? My point stands tall and proud, unaffected by anything that was said in this thread, so nice try.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Except I wasn't incorrect? My point stands tall and proud, unaffected by anything that was said in this thread, so nice try.
    You say it's not essential to have flight because it is not required to have flight in any zone to do stuff there.

    I point out at least 5 things you can't do without flight.

    You say they are not essential, that those things could be arbitrarily placed anywhere.

    I point out that they are essential to other people who want to do those things and they were specifically placed where you can only get to them with flight there by denoting that it was planned and not arbitrary.

    Some how you still think you are right? Have you given the circus a call? I heard they are hiring contortionists.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganker View Post
    First of all, I personally love flying mounts in WoW but I think flying at max level is too easily obtainable. Do you remember days back in TBC? You had do farm your gold FOR MONTHS to learn flying (EDIT: I meant 280% speed flying) and to buy your first mount. And yeah, when you've finally bought it, you felt like you achieved something big. And now in MoP all you have to do is to get your character to 90th level, and then buy "flying in pandaria" for a very cheap price. That's not how it should work.
    So here's my idea:

    Let's say, there will be a lot of factions in the next expansion (just like in MoP). To raise your reputation with those factions of course you would have to do dailies or events (like in BF: Barrens or Timeless Isle). But those activities would also provide something like timeless coins. And to learn flying in the continent that will be added in the next expansion, you would have to pay a lot of those timeless coins. I mean really... A LOT. A grind would take maybe around few months but then you would again feel that you've achieved something - after all this hard work, now you can fly on your mount on the new continent.

    And the reason why I think flying should be avalaible for currency similiar to timeless coins is because nowadays there is a lot of rich people in WoW so if flying would cost for example 50k gold, it wouldn't be any problem for rich people to buy it so instead they would have to do content and buy it for currency like timeless coins.

    Discuss this idea.

    I've also made the same topic on the official WoW forums, so if you like this idea, also post there so maybe someone from Blizzard will see it: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...44394?page=1#0
    I apologize for sounding rude, but please don't ever apply for a job at Blizzard. This is a terrible idea and really, just a bad way of thinking in general. So what if 'alot' of people in WoW have lots of gold: lots of people don't, and your idea basically gives the middle finger to those people. Some of the most skilled, baddest-ass players that I know (I'm talking gladiators, people clearing heroic raids, etc) don't have the time or interest to play the AH or make gold farming more than an incidental part of their WoW time, and I know people who don't raid at all who are gold capped.

    There are too many playstyles and too many variations within said playstyles for one overarching 'MUST BE EXPENSIVE' rule like you're proposing. Just a lame idea all around (and this is coming from someone with the 108k yak mount, 80k engineering mounts, JC mounts, etc).

    And no believe it or not, if you knew what you were doing in BC epic flight was easy. I had mine within a day of reaching 70. So I think that's nostalgia talking, if you think that was some big mountain to climb.

  8. #248
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    By making flying costly, you're hurting a lot of players. Not everyone is your 100k+ guy. Blizz have said so repeatedly. The majority of players would find it very irritating if they had to out of their way to earn more gold than they have ever possessed during the past years. For some people, even 20k is a fortune.

  9. #249
    I am spoiled by flying at this point in WoW. I know I used to live without it before tbc, but now it is too convenient to give up. I can't level and alt past 85 due to not having flying. I barely made it to 90 the first time because there was no flying.

  10. #250
    550k for my toons, just to fly?

    I mean really?

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Read this post. I am not trying to prove flight doesn't exist, for christ sake.
    No, you are trying to prove that it isn't necessary. Which you failed to do.

  12. #252
    The Patient Wulfstan's Avatar
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    It shouldnt cost months of grinding or 50k gold to use a basic feature of the game.
    The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.- George Carlin

  13. #253
    Banned Taftvalue's Avatar
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    no they should remove flying mounts all together, they are in fact the biggest mistake blizzard ever made, and if they had the balls to do it the game would be alot better, sadly tehy are afraid that people will quit if they take away their precious mounts, but rest assured they know that flying mounts are an immersion killing abomination as stated by ghostcrawler so in their next game they wont make the same mistake again

  14. #254
    oh shush, back in the day it was ridiculous prices for mounts relative to the ingame economy i mean. not to mention some classes needed to do a long quest line to get em, u guys are entitled i say.

  15. #255
    Herald of the Titans
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    If you made flying cost 50k, it would barely inconvenience a tiny number of people, and it would piss off the other 98% of players.

    Sounds like a terrific idea.

    On the other hand, if you locked it behind a terrible 60 day grind, like, say, Son of Molten Front, it would piss off 100% of players. Maybe that's what you were going for.

    Flying makes a game where travel is inconvenient less inconvenient. But it doesn't actually make it convenient, because I personally find it a pain in the ass to get around in Pandaria now, with the obligatory weekly treasure runs at one corner and the obligatory raid coins in the center and the semi-useful "new" zone at the other corner, and no convenient way to travel between. Basically, taxi and AFK for 5-10 minutes, now, that there is SOME REALLY COMPELLING GAMEPLAY.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    If you made flying cost 50k, it would barely inconvenience a tiny number of people, and it would piss off the other 98% of players.

    Sounds like a terrific idea.

    On the other hand, if you locked it behind a terrible 60 day grind, like, say, Son of Molten Front, it would piss off 100% of players. Maybe that's what you were going for.

    Flying makes a game where travel is inconvenient less inconvenient. But it doesn't actually make it convenient, because I personally find it a pain in the ass to get around in Pandaria now, with the obligatory weekly treasure runs at one corner and the obligatory raid coins in the center and the semi-useful "new" zone at the other corner, and no convenient way to travel between. Basically, taxi and AFK for 5-10 minutes, now, that there is SOME REALLY COMPELLING GAMEPLAY.
    The gold sellers would love this ideal, maybe that is the purpose of the post, to boost profits.

  17. #257
    Field Marshal TJkroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseeyou View Post
    Like your idea OP
    Of course you do.

    How about the cost to fly is proportional to how much gold you have account wide. If you have 501-1,000 gold across your account, then it it costs 250 gold per toon. If it is 1,001-10,000 gold then it costs 2,500 gold. If it is 10,001-100,000 gold then it costs 25,000 gold. 100,001-500,000 gold (across all toons) then it costs 250,000 gold to buy flying. If you have over 500,001 gold to 2 million then every month you pay 1 million gold. More than that and you pay for everyone else who has less than 500 gold at a rate of 1 gold per day.

  18. #258
    No. Honestly I *hate* these flying restrictions to begin with. I disliked MoP leveling and rushed through it on my main and don't even remember the story, I just wanted flying back more than anything. My alt is only 89 because I got most of it from Halloween buckets, pet trainer dailies, Halloween dailies, and doing each dungeon 1-2 times, with a little running around mining in Pandaria before I got annoyed with the no flying too much to even mine and kill rares.

  19. #259
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganker View Post
    Discuss this idea.
    No. Frankly, I'm a good 50k in already as it is, given the number of post-60 toons I have and the flight training they bought. I've already done all the achieving I need to do for my flying mounts. It wouldn't feel like an accomplishment if I paid for something multiple times only to be told that if I want to use my shiny toys in the new expansion, I have to slog through another damn grind on top of all the other endgame grinds, never mind having to do it all over again if I want a max-level alt or two. If it costs any more than a relatively-trivial amount of gold like Northrend, Azeroth, and Pandaria flight did then world play can kiss my furry pandaren ass, I'll sit in a city and queue until the cows come home regardless of what goodies they put out there for max level.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  20. #260
    I have 14+ alts so NTY.

    There are better ways to make flying hard to get though. How about a rep grind? *evil laughter*
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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