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  1. #1

    Help on Thok heroic

    Hi there,

    currently progressing on that fight, there are a few questions I'd need your advice for...

    - how can we prevent double fixate?
    - why is everyone doing acid phase first? are the bats tied to acid phase or will they spawn after the first transition every try?
    - is it worth transitioning into fire phase or kite the boss until death / enrage on third kiting phase?

    Thanks a lot in advance
    Keashaa

  2. #2
    If you have the speed boost to outrun him you can try kiting him during the enrage, but it prolly wont work very well unless you have warlock ports and luck of the draw.
    As for double Fixate, you cannot prevent this, the raiders have to be ready to react if it does happen, sometimes you will have to die, but you still need to run as far away from the raid group anyways to insure it doesn't happen to the next person if they get it they can still keep running. We had that problem a few times last night, luckly it was always on a druid when it did double.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    1: You cannot (Well sorta), try to have the person who was last fixated move back to Thok JUST when the chase cast is about to end thus making them ineligible for being in melee range, we've had problems with this though. If they cannot make it in time, they have to move further or just pray it's an engineer with another option. I myself have been double fixated and survived... But make sure you try to move back into Thoks side(20yds) if you can maneuver carefully, my experience is he will target another person who is further behind him and not the person he just targeted. Try to measure his speed and how long is left on the focus. (keeping him setfocused the whole fight is a good idea)

    2: Acid damage is fairly negligible and it's just simple I guess. The bats should come each time for that cage, and we've just accepted that. We always do acid first so I'm not sure if doing the frost or fire cage will adjust that. But I'd imagine so...

    3: Errrmm would not recommend, he'd get too fast wouldn't he? I mean if you get lucky and get a fast mover/engineer you can kinda push it, or if your dps is insaneo. But eventually you'd have to go into the fire phase. Or am I thinking wrong here...sorry only had a single night on this boss myself. If you CAN manage to do that without him chomping your raid, I suppose go for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    2: Acid damage is fairly negligible and it's just simple I guess. The bats should come each time for that cage, and we've just accepted that. We always do acid first so I'm not sure if doing the frost or fire cage will adjust that. But I'd imagine so...
    Well, we had issues about acid DoT, Thok AE and bats AE killing people. If bats will spawn after the first cage regardless of what cage maybe it would be a good idea to open frost first (as there's no DoT). But if bats always spawn with acid, then I understand why to open acid first (as the yeti is a pain in the ass)...

  5. #5
    This is how we did.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcuSnFWY82M

    He fixates player far away, keep close and u will less likely get fixated. If u dont dps bats in time they lifesteal and do shitloads of dmg.
    Frostwhisper EU - Hulkovius Elemental Shaman 14/14 HC. Armory

    Sylvanas EU - Hulkoviusx Sub/Combat Rogue 11/14 HC Armory

  6. #6
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Well, we had issues about acid DoT, Thok AE and bats AE killing people. If bats will spawn after the first cage regardless of what cage maybe it would be a good idea to open frost first (as there's no DoT). But if bats always spawn with acid, then I understand why to open acid first (as the yeti is a pain in the ass)...
    The bats are tied to the acid door. If you open blue first you will get the Yeti.

  7. #7
    Just throwing this in because of the fear of double fixates... actually saw a triple fixate last night. First time ever and chances of it must be ridiculous... but sadly it seems like it can happen.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk
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    Fixate has a min/max range. If you're really close to Thok after a fixate you won't be picked again. Double and triple fixate only happens on the first 2-3 because you're generally (depending on class) still faster then he is, and with speed boosts you can still be faster than him on the third. We actually prefer a double or triple fixate, AS LONG as it's not on the fourth fixate, because you will just die. Just make sure you're really close to the boss when he finishes a fixate and you won't get picked again.

    We do poison first too. The reason we do it anyways is because the first regular phase and the frost phase are the easiest phases as far as raid damage taken. Generally you can extend these phases the longest with raid CDs available. Your raid CDs won't be up for the bat phase and because you have to AoE the bats down your boss DPS is going to be very inefficient in comparison. We typically try to extend the first and frost phase as long as possible, and for the bat phase we transition out as fast as we can because we don't have raid CDs. Bats do a lot of raid damage combined with that poison and without raid CDs it's both not an efficient boss DPS phase, and simply not possible to extend the phase as long as the other two.

    Whether you burn him or not when you're going to the last phase depends on your DPS and raid composition, in addition to his HP. If you have a raid composition of entirely range players you can probably just burn him if he's at or slightly above 15%. Our composition ran with one melee DPS and we chose to take it safe and just do the fire phase anyways. We had him at like 16% when the frost phase ended and burned him to 3-4% in that kite phase (our kill was 7:54). We probably could have killed him in that kite phase, but the fire phase isn't that bad for the first 4 roars.

    After 4 roars we always try to transition out of the fire phase because the possibility of people dying and the moving nature of the raid/boss due to fire on the ground is a real possibility. With people dying it's really hard to actually transition out of the phase completely.

    Realistically you need to have the boss at 10% or lower if you're doing the kite phase AFTER the fire phase. That kite is really awful for damage because there is a yeti to dodge and fire on the ground which prevents range from just being turrets, so damage will be a lot lower compared to other phases. We had a couple 2% wipes because of this.

    Hard boss. Remember to constantly scream at people to WATCH THE YETI, because you will have people who get clobbered by him.

  9. #9
    The Patient Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Hi there,

    currently progressing on that fight, there are a few questions I'd need your advice for...

    - how can we prevent double fixate?
    - why is everyone doing acid phase first? are the bats tied to acid phase or will they spawn after the first transition every try?
    - is it worth transitioning into fire phase or kite the boss until death / enrage on third kiting phase?

    Thanks a lot in advance
    Keashaa
    Fixate has a threshold distance that increases with each fixate. What this means is that for the first fixate he will pick the furthest person within 20yds, but on the second fixate it increases to the furthest person within 40yds, and so on. It's by no means an exact science but you're able to ensure that a select group of people you never want fixated can stand near the boss at all times, while two people with reliable speed increases stand at his threshold distance for the respective fixate.

    We did acid first because there's no yeti to deal with yet, the fire lasts for a while, and you can lust on the bats if they give you trouble. If you are going to around 25+ stacks on the first one, your CDs will also be up again at the same times for the green phase.

    Lastly it is worth doing fire since it gives you a damage buff — if the boss is low though you should just stack and transition ASAP.

  10. #10
    What do you guys mean no yeti to deal with? What dealing with him are you doing? The yeti is basically a non-factor in the fight. More often than not he just randomly charges walls miles away from your group.

  11. #11
    10 or 25? Having done both I can say if you are 25 don't really sweat it and just have good healing cooldowns planned out and a way to handle bats. My 25 man group did it in about 15 attempts seeing it for the first time on heroic, and another guild on my server did it in about 20. Once you clear bats you should kill the fight barring getting hit by yeti. With gear now the fight isn't that bad. 10 man though...

    In 10 man you definitely need to control fixates. As people have said there's a min/max range so if you are in that range you won't get double fixated unless everyone else is inside that range too.

  12. #12
    I've seen a ton of Prot Pally solo tank logs. What makes them able to solo? Can they bubble off a breath debuff or something? Can any other tank solo?

  13. #13
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtletuna View Post
    I've seen a ton of Prot Pally solo tank logs. What makes them able to solo? Can they bubble off a breath debuff or something? Can any other tank solo?
    As far as I know any Tank can solo it. We solo tanked it with our Brewmaster and it was fine. I'm pretty sure Prot Paladins can bubble off the Ice stacks in the blue phase but it's not a huge deal if the tank gets tombed since it should die in a global.

    You're probably seeing more Prot Paladins than other tanks since Devotion Aura / BoP are so good on Thok.

  14. #14
    They also do mental healing because of hammer.

  15. #15
    - Starting phase, breath just does a damage taken increase = more vengeance and with how broken vengeance is on the fight due to "special-atk" scaling more damage for almost no survivability change.
    - Acid Phase - Armor debuff, solo tanked will probably stack to 5 which is 0 armor. Monks are good for this since they don't have any armour anyways.
    - Frost Phase - Ice tombs should be broken out almost immediately anyways and can pop a small CD first.

    Monks are good for all phases, and can provide significant raid shields. Paladins are good for all but high stacks of acid, but provide devo/BoPs and significant raid healing. Those are the 2 tanks that are most common as solo tank.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk
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    DKs get wrecked in the first phase compared to other tanks. However, AMS can block applications of the acid and frost breath, making them one of the better tanks for those.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkovius View Post
    This is how we did.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcuSnFWY82M

    He fixates player far away, keep close and u will less likely get fixated. If u dont dps bats in time they lifesteal and do shitloads of dmg.
    So my guild has been banging the heads towards this boss for a few raids now. We did watch your kill video and considered copying it. However we don't understand the reason behind 2 tanking it?

  18. #18
    The biggest advantage that protection paladins would have for solo tanking this over other tanks is because we can bubble off both poison and frost debuffs, also for the first phase when you dealing with 7 stacks if your solo tanking, holy avenger is pretty massive to reduce the huge amounts of spike damage that will be coming at you, dealing with the 4-7 Stacks in phase 1 and when you have bats is probably the only times you talking about really high damage in take.

    Overall but i mean plenty people are 2 tanking it, and realistically you still do well with 2 tanks, a Prot Pally can still easily do 150k-250k hps raid healing blanking EF well the other tank has the boss, and it makes tanks suitability not as stressed.

    That being said in most cases a protection paladin, or any other tank realistically if solo tanking this will probably end up doing not much less then if you had 2 tanks so gaining a 4th healing could be massive, on the flip side some people have 1 tank and 3 healed it so there you go.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Marxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxie View Post
    As for double Fixate, you cannot prevent this,
    You can, actually. If you run too far away from Thok during your first fixate, he can fixate on you a second time. Fix this by not going more than ~50 yards from him.

  20. #20
    Just throwing this in because of the fear of double fixates.
    Last edited by hiraokaqdg; 2013-10-22 at 07:54 AM.

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