Why don't you raid normal/heroic?

[Steampunk]

My schedule sucks, being a moderately successful adult.

I don't have a guild anymore; but when I find one I like, I can never raid on their days. Or on the rare day I can, I can't get in, as others who can be on everyday are already filling my spots (Two tanks and full heals per group after all; and who wants to keep three sets of gear now?).

Loot squabbles have never been a serious issue for me. At least, not since AQ.

Also, I'm starting to get jaded by the never-ending treadmill, as LFR is my only possible option to see new content... and bags of gold for almost two months straight is a bullcrap design decision.

[dashflash890]

Many LFRers have the time to find a good guild and can make the times. Its just that 1. They don't want to put the effort in or B. Don't want people to know they are bad.

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What's the difference between not wanting or not being able to commit to structured raiding?

I have a challenging job, that I genuinely enjoy and which I want to excel at. So I make more hours than is strictly necessary, and I don't browse raidguides during my lunchbreak.

I have a wonderful wife, who I love very much and with whom I enjoy spending my evenings - more than I enjoy raiding, which I find also fun, just less so.

It's all a matter of priorities.

I was referring to the people with watching tv during raid times and say "I don't have time to raid give me free loot please" attitude.

[Pony Soldier]

All of the reasons you listed except 4 basicly.

i do join normal and flex pugs, but i see no reason to establish myself as a raider when i can just as much fun, or even more without an established raid schedule

Pretty much the same here. All the reasons OP listed is pretty much why I don't raid with a guild...much. I will sometimes if I'm conveniently on and the guild asks if I want to go because they have an empty slot for me but most of the time I just do what I feel like doing and then I'm off in a matter of like 3-4 hours. To tell you the truth the only reason why I'm even in this guild in the first place is because of the guild perks. LFR allows me to experience the new raids and get decent gear out of it and that's all I really need to have fun with the game. It's also short enough for me to continue doing what ever I wanted to do after the raid is done. For normal raids it's not so much the difficulty as much as it is the commitment that is required for it. To be a guild raider you always have to be on at the scheduled time and spend like 5 hours in a single raid which takes up like a whole night and I can't be bothered to be spending my whole night doing just one thing when I could be doing other things I actually felt like doing.

The other thing too that turns me away is that with raids once I do them like 2-3 times I just want to move on to something different. The guild I'm in with will farm, farm, farm, and farm until they have all the gear they want. It just becomes so tedious after like the 10th time doing the same raid. Most of the time I'm just thinking of all the other things I could be doing that would be much more fun than raiding. I do raids just for the experience and story I could care less about the gear I get they are just extra goodies.

[Kelzam]

The ilvl elitism inflation has gotten to a breaking point. I quit at the beginning of ToT with an ilvl of 505, and just now came back - now normal mode guilds want 330-340, and even in full 522 gear I'm left at 524. Now, I'm at the mercy of LFR since Flex groups also want 330-340 to steamroll the content. I got burnt out trying to gear grind.

[eschatological]

I think people who are avoiding guild drama, "crazy" people are just not looking/finding the right guilds.

Up until T15 (last tier, Throne of Thunder), I was a heroic progression raider. We raided 12 or less hours a week, which is less than some guild flexes I've been asked along to recently. We cleared all heroic content before the next patch. We were all adults (hell, our average age was about 28), and even though we occasionally recruited a new person, it wasn't some traumatic birthing experience y'all seem to think accompanies joining a new guild. I joined the guild not knowing a single person, and now I consider them friends.

As for time: we had 2 lawyers, a couple CPAs, sales execs, and business executives in our raid. The key was we all had a common goal (to do heroic progression) and we were all dedicated to not wasting each others times. If we didn't have time to raid, that's why we had a bench. I can't remember a week where we didn't have someone on a business trip. That's why you have bench players, but having a bench requires the maturity of people to be able to cope with being on the bench for a first kill, or something like that.

Hell, there were even times when I wasn't feeling like raiding when I asked to sit on the bench so I could just beat up some random rares in the world. Sometimes we would fight to sit out on fights, even.

I only don't raid now because of medical catastrophe which I'm just now getting over, during which my guild fell to pieces (because most of us were so busy).

Edit: And granted, it was a weekend raiding guild (Fri-Sun), but I'm an old man and don't give a shit about going out and getting drunk on those nights.

[Baine]

What I like from raids
-Story progression
-Certain unique mechanics (i.e. I rather like the assembly line idea from one of the last bosses of SoO)
-The idea to play with guildies

What I dislike from raids
-They take too much time, a good part being to wait
-The rewards are not worth it for the difficulty and the time needed to clear it.

And those two points are really why I can't bear raiding. To waste all that time, before or during a raid just for a few ilevels on gear? fuck that.

[Adp]

It's the schedule. Working in a lab I can't really say that I will be able to make raid times since my work comes first and the times I need to be there vary greatly. I would love to raid again though, I used to raid way back when in Vanilla/BC. I love working as a team, and I love the drama that comes with it XD

[Azaile-]

they way my roster works prevents me from joining any raid groups that have attendance requirements. I do raid normal's with a fairly lenient guild atm though.

[rebecca191]

I quit for two years, I'm rusty, my gear is behind, and I don't want to guild hop from normal to hard mode, but can't pug normal for better gear on my server. Also I won't be able to play much in the spring/summer. I may go back to hard mode raiding next expac, but I'd want to raid less hours just out of preference. No more 5 days a week.

For reference I full cleared all HMs in WotlK and Cata and cleared Sunwell in BC and some of Naxx at 60. So I was hardcore for a long time. I quit WoW a year and a half ago and just came back last month.

[Hulkovius]

I'm up every day at 0530 and finish work at 1600. I do enough work without having to comit to a full time raiding guild.

I got a fulltime job 8-17 and I manage to participate and get World 3 10 man HC. I wake up 06.15 and get home 18.00. During Garrosh HC progression I slept 3-4 hours each night and slept for 30 min on lunch break. WUT, u be Insane?

Imo its only a question of dedication and the power of will. Its ok to not have the interest to live like I did during progress. But its possible and when you are done with it, u know you have accomplished something extraordinary. After all its only during a short period. I guess some ppl have other Thrills that triggers. Mine is World ranks.

[Twoflower]

No time because of RL, and i dont want to deal with teenies and guild drama any more. In short : i grew up.

[Téuntjûh]

There is one simple reason for me.

atm I can not commit to any form of schedule, be it a small commitment or large?

I do try to get into some normal/heroic pugs to keep my gear up to date.
Resulting in strange progress. I cleared 6/14 on normal now and 2/14 on heroic

[Blueobelisk]

I find it kind of hard to believe that most people here can't commit four solid hours because of their jobs. Do you guys have shifting days and work 80+ hours a week where you literally don't know what your schedule is and at any given minute of a day you could be at work?

Anyway. I don't play WoW, but if I played now I'd probably be flex. Normal is a waste of time, I'd either be in a group good enough to destroy normal and move on to heroics or I'd be in a casual group of friends that one shots flex bosses.

[Mormolyce]

I quit raiding in early MoP due to no longer being able to commit the time. I still put shitloads of hours into WoW, but the thing is it's at sporadic hours and if someone wants me to get off and do something IRL, now I can. It's really more the "not available to do anything between X and Y on days 1,2,3" thing rather than the sheer number of hours required.

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I find it kind of hard to believe that most people here can't commit four solid hours because of their jobs. Do you guys have shifting days and work 80+ hours a week where you literally don't know what your schedule is and at any given minute of a day you could be at work?

Thing is, most people have to squeeze in their private life in the remaining hours. Raiding means your free time is reduced to simply weekends.

[Deleted]

Can you not find other players to raid with?

Pretty much this. It's extremely hard to find good guilds as a Mage, as they're all overloaded with Mages already, and I'm not willing to raid as any other class.

[Ragashii]

Most of the people I used to play with have all quit. Only really play these days when the mood strikes me. Flex didn't drum up the interest in people that I thought it would so I just don't bother. If flex had been introduced back in Cataclysm I think it would've saved guilds. These days, most of the "family" guilds have already quit or on hiatus because there was a long time where content wasn't aimed at them. The damage is already done and flex just seems like it happened too late. Kudos to everyone enjoying flex so far, and hopefully it helps with that itch.

[Snorkles]

I find it kind of hard to believe that most people here can't commit four solid hours because of their jobs. Do you guys have shifting days and work 80+ hours a week where you literally don't know what your schedule is and at any given minute of a day you could be at work?

It's not just about fitting it into your schedule, it's also about wanting to fit it in. By the time I get back from work I have maybe half an hour to an hour before your typical raid time. Assume a raid will be 2-3 hours, by the time I'm done I'll want to go to bed so I can get up at 6am to go to the gym before work and not feel like shit.

I could fit it in. I'm not prepared to though, simply because I used to do this and my evenings weren't my own anymore and it sucked the fun out of WoW completely.

[Deleted]

Can you not commit to any form of schedule, be it a small commitment or large?
Can you not find other players to raid with?
Do the rewards, and the prospect of a stronger character not interest you?

These three. I used to do the hardcore raiding. But at some point I had to choose between spending time with RL friends and enjoying my other hobbies, or continuing to raid. So I went with my friends.
Also it would be difficult for me to find another raid guild as awesome as the one I used to run with.
And the constant gear resets, class nerfs and buffs etc got tiring after a while. For example, going from tanking Heroic LK on my bear druid with some success to getting smashed trying to tank almost anything in Cataclysm because of a bugged tanking talent was not fun.

[Frizzlewits]

Can you not commit to any form of schedule, be it a small commitment or large?
yep, cba either

Are you not interested in the harder difficulties in a game?
nope. as above i simple cba with it

Can you not find other players to raid with?
im a guild that runs normal and i suspect the guild will kill garrosh on 25 normal. flex is been cleared. i just cba to join in.

Are you afraid of, or personally not good enough to participate in the harder difficulties?
im not gonna die due fire or something :P but if i wanted i could be a good dpser

Do the rewards, and the prospect of a stronger character not interest you?
not at all. 2 months later (or 3) its all replaced. all that hard for for nothing.
and i have sharded vendored ect ect enough pieces of gear. within all those years of playing on different chars.

[Flutterguy]

Can you not commit to any form of schedule, be it a small commitment or large?

Right now my schedule looks like this...

Monday - Class during peek hours
Tuesday - Pathfinder group night during peek hours
Wednesday - Class during peek hours
Thursday - Open! I can raid!
Friday - RPG Night with friends or Friday Night Magic(alternates)
Saturday - USUALLY Free! I can raid! Usually!
Sunday - Usually free! I can raid! Usually!
(I sometimes do RPGs with some friends on the weekend, but it is not a consistent thing. We do it when our schedules align, so while I can usually raid on the weekend, I can't commit)

Now... Before I started a 12 week course, I had Mondays and Wednesdays like Thursdays, open completely.

Here's the problem...

Normal and heroic raiders?

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
Tuesday, Wednesday, Monday
Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday

See the problem? If I can't make 1/3 of the raid days at the best of times, I can't obviously be a reliable raid member now can I? Now, I am DPS which makes me expendable mostly, but if I wanted to be a healer full time? They'd be down a healer at least 1 of those raid days. A tank? Even worse. And DPS is definitely not something these guilds are in short supply of, especially melee DPS.

I used to raid normals regularly with a guild that did it on Weekends and sometimes Thursday. It was great times, some of my fondest raiding, but I haven't been so lucky with that since the first couple tiers of Cata.

Are you not interested in the harder difficulties in a game?

Normals have been my perfect level of play. I can't just flub it up, but I'm also not being yelled at constantly by a drill sergeant type raid leader to keep "Pushing it!" I did "hard modes" in Ulduar and while it was fun being part of a few guild firsts in that regard, I didn't care for the level of stress. Heroics are not completely out of the picture for me, it would just depend on how comfortable I feel.

Can you not find other players to raid with?

This tends to be the secondary problem to my first problem with scheduling. The last time I was in a raiding guild that had the numbers to do normals was Cata, Firelands and very briefly Dragon Soul(until our #1 healer/DPS had a mental breakdown and quit gaming altogether). I like playing with friends, but as the game has gotten older I just don't know as many people that still play as I used to and being a kind of introverted individual, I have trouble making new friends in the game because I don't like talking too much.

Are you afraid of, or personally not good enough to participate in the harder difficulties?

I've always felt I could do better, but I have no real sense of how good or not good I really am at this game. I tend to be tops in LFR, but it's LFR. I do well to not die to stupid crap unless I'm new to a fight, then it's kinda trial and error until I get the rhythm. I listen well and try to play my class right, but I'm also not a savant with pushing numbers and not every single ability is hotkeyed/macro'd.

Do the rewards, and the prospect of a stronger character not interest you?

They're nice, but they not what keeps me from doing Normals/Heroics nor what completely motivates me.