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  1. #1

    So..Storm Bolt as Fury?

    My guildy Eigen (US Lightbringer alliance) is Fury and he is very geared. He did 25 heroic LK with me today and he did 400k DPS on LK, storm bolt being his #1 ability..I was just..shocked..http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Eigen/advanced

    The thing is, Storm Bolt does 500% wep damage to bosses that are immune to stun (pretty much every single boss) so that's like..a LOT of damage for a rage free 30 second CD..is that worth it? I'm just imaging 500% wep damage inside a CS..that's..what.

    Would that be worth it as arms as well?
    Last edited by Master Guns; 2013-10-25 at 05:50 AM.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    Would that be worth it as arms as well?
    No, I don't know exact math but bloodbath is better as arms. Fury's SB deals damage from both weapons, that's why it deals more damage than BB.

  3. #3
    Think this has been already debated and talked over many times here. But here it goes, gonna give you the short version. As far as i know SB is best dmg in the tier for TG fury by far, for SMF it pulls out ahead of BB but not by a huge margine, while for Arms its lacking in dmg compared to BB because of the lack of an off-han weapon.

  4. #4
    There's also the fact that unlike Fury, Arms is GCD capped by design, so Bloodbath is basically free damage. Storm Bolt's effectiveness is reduced by whatever you replaced in your rotation to include it, likely a Slam. So it's only about half as effective as it is on paper, on top of the single-wield limitation.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    There's also the fact that unlike Fury, Arms is GCD capped by design, so Bloodbath is basically free damage. Storm Bolt's effectiveness is reduced by whatever you replaced in your rotation to include it, likely a Slam. So it's only about half as effective as it is on paper, on top of the single-wield limitation.
    Technically, w/ EEoG, fury is GCD capped inside CS (Which is when you use every SB) so you still have opportunity cost lost, it's just different. I find myself pretty GCD locked as fury anyway. But the tradeoff is lower.

  6. #6
    But how is it a loss if what you're replacing it with does MORE damage? So yeah, say you replace a slam with a SB. Slam doesn't do 500% weapon damage lol. So how is that not..better..?
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Technically, w/ EEoG, fury is GCD capped inside CS (Which is when you use every SB) so you still have opportunity cost lost, it's just different. I find myself pretty GCD locked as fury anyway. But the tradeoff is lower.
    I'd say there's a only a partial loss since you can usually "save" a Raging Blow until later (though it won't benefit from CS of course) so it's not that you lost a whole RB, just the difference between inside-CS RB and outside one. In short, you'll probably get an extra RB or WS outside CS if you used SB inside CS.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    But how is it a loss if what you're replacing it with does MORE damage? So yeah, say you replace a slam with a SB. Slam doesn't do 500% weapon damage lol. So how is that not..better..?
    Because after you subtract the two Slams it replaces over the one minute, it loses its competitive edge with Bloodbath. And that's if you do hit SB in CS every time. TBH I'm not even sure if that's a gain for Fury because it cripples CS uptime. But Arms doesn't have a fixed CS cooldown to plan around.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    But how is it a loss if what you're replacing it with does MORE damage? So yeah, say you replace a slam with a SB. Slam doesn't do 500% weapon damage lol. So how is that not..better..?
    SB is a 500% gain over an empty GCD.
    SB is a 225% gain over a GCD that you would have used Slam.

    To put it another way, SB is a gain compared to not using any L90 talent, but BB is a larger gain. SB is a loss compared to BB.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    SB is a 500% gain over an empty GCD.
    SB is a 225% gain over a GCD that you would have used Slam.

    To put it another way, SB is a gain compared to not using any L90 talent, but BB is a larger gain. SB is a loss compared to BB.
    Don't forget that Slam does +10% damage during CS, so as SB is used in CS its even less of a gain over Slam for arms, BB all the way.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Because after you subtract the two Slams it replaces over the one minute, it loses its competitive edge with Bloodbath. And that's if you do hit SB in CS every time. TBH I'm not even sure if that's a gain for Fury because it cripples CS uptime. But Arms doesn't have a fixed CS cooldown to plan around.
    u dont have to delay CS if u have Evil Eye of Galakras, i have the normal version and it makes Storm Bolt line up almost perfectly with CS

    I'm quite sure Storm Bolt is much less of a gain without that trinket
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    But how is it a loss if what you're replacing it with does MORE damage? So yeah, say you replace a slam with a SB. Slam doesn't do 500% weapon damage lol. So how is that not..better..?
    I don't think you actually understood what I said. Opportunity cost isn't necessarily a real cost, as in a negative outcome. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. You need to account for the cost, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth it.

  13. #13
    I personally don't see a point in using Bloodbath even as Arms, eventho it might technically get you better overall results but it comes at the expense of cheesing damage where it is unnecessary. When you pop bladestorm and have a rend running on everything they won't exactly stay alive for long and it really doesn't make any difference if you subtract the bloodbath damage from your bladestorm and keep the adds alive for a few more seconds.

    What really does make a difference is getting those on-demand 1m+ concentrated stormbolts on stun immune adds like the 'bosses' on Spoils and weapons on blackfuses assembly line. I'm not one to sacrifice practicality just to compete in logs.
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-10-25 at 07:29 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Strafir View Post
    I personally don't see a point in using Bloodbath even as Arms, eventho it might technically get you better overall results but it comes at the expense of cheesing damage where it is unnecessary. When you pop bladestorm and have a rend running on everything they won't exactly stay alive for long and it really doesn't make any difference if you subtract the bloodbath damage from your bladestorm and keep the adds alive for a few more seconds.

    What really does make a difference is getting those on-demand 1m+ concentrated stormbolts on stun immune adds like the 'bosses' on Spoils and weapons on blackfuses assembly line. I'm not one to sacrifice practicality just to compete in logs.
    I'm sorry but you are just wrong. It's stupid to take SB when BB performs better for single target AND even more so as soon as you use it for aoe as well.

    Why would you cripple your damage (st: a bit, aoe: a lot) for no reason?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    I'm sorry but you are just wrong. It's stupid to take SB when BB performs better for single target AND even more so as soon as you use it for aoe as well.

    Why would you cripple your damage (st: a bit, aoe: a lot) for no reason?
    It definitely doesn't cripple you. Bloodbath has a relatively long duration and what makes it even worse is the ramp up time, rage pooling and sacrifices you need to do to get as much as possible out of it. Aoe cheesing might look good on meters but the point is, is your mediocre dot damage really necessary on craptrash or would a concentrated nuke 3 times per minute benefit your raid more?

    On single target fights like Malkorok and Norushen Bloodbath will probably come out on top, but for fights with stun immune adds like Galakras, Spoils and Siegecrafter I would highly recommend to atleast try Stormbolt out and be amazed on how much more damage you're able to dish out on targets that really matter.
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-10-25 at 08:44 PM.

  16. #16
    The only valid argument to take Storm Bolt as Arms is if you need to kill something in a CS window. Anything longer than that, and Bloodbath will start to do more damage.
    This tier, there is no mobs that needs to die in that short of a timewindow, and therefor, SB Is completely useless for Arms this tier.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    The only valid argument to take Storm Bolt as Arms is if you need to kill something in a CS window. Anything longer than that, and Bloodbath will start to do more damage.
    This tier, there is no mobs that needs to die in that short of a timewindow, and therefor, SB Is completely useless for Arms this tier.
    How is that a valid argument at all? Its like people are uncontrollable damagewhoring machines without the slightest vision of practicality.
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-10-25 at 08:54 PM.

  18. #18
    Your argument is that SB is beter on some fights, as you can do more burst damage on the mobs that matter, my answer is that unless they live for less than 8-10seconds, BB will do more damage to them.

    This tier there is no boss, nor trashmob that validate the use of SB as Arms, as none of the important mobs, that aren't stunable, live for that short of a duration.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strafir View Post
    I personally don't see a point in using Bloodbath even as Arms, eventho it might technically get you better overall results but it comes at the expense of cheesing damage where it is unnecessary. When you pop bladestorm and have a rend running on everything they won't exactly stay alive for long and it really doesn't make any difference if you subtract the bloodbath damage from your bladestorm and keep the adds alive for a few more seconds.

    What really does make a difference is getting those on-demand 1m+ concentrated stormbolts on stun immune adds like the 'bosses' on Spoils and weapons on blackfuses assembly line. I'm not one to sacrifice practicality just to compete in logs.

    You're wrong. As stated.

  20. #20
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    Big issue with stormbolt as arms is that you're completely GCD capped already(meaning it has to replace an ability in your rotation), SB also does a lot less damage as Arms compared to Fury. BB on the other hand is completely passive, it is just free damage on top. Arms is also a cleave/aoe biased spec and excells there (while it isn't so great single target) and BB becomes more potent with every target.

    When you talk about instant damage it makes no sense, why are the mobs with bloodbath going to die before it ticks off? Why is (for example, made up numbers) 500k instant better than 500k over a few seconds? Hell if you want big instant numbers then you can easily crit 600-700k + with an AOE thunderclap, why do I use a SB when I can do a 700k thunderclap crit that will spread deep wounds? Or why do a SB when I can do a slam that will hit every target within 2yards?

    The thing is with BB it doesn't matter, BB is free damage on top that you could just as easily macro to your mortal strike and forget about it, it doesn't need to fit inbetween other abilities. Obviously SB works out better for Fury because it hits a lot harder, Fury has more free GCD's and is much more of a single target based spec.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2013-10-26 at 01:36 AM.
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