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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strafir View Post
    It definitely doesn't cripple you. Bloodbath has a relatively long duration and what makes it even worse is the ramp up time, rage pooling and sacrifices you need to do to get as much as possible out of it. Aoe cheesing might look good on meters but the point is, is your mediocre dot damage really necessary on craptrash or would a concentrated nuke 3 times per minute benefit your raid more?

    On single target fights like Malkorok and Norushen Bloodbath will probably come out on top, but for fights with stun immune adds like Galakras, Spoils and Siegecrafter I would highly recommend to atleast try Stormbolt out and be amazed on how much more damage you're able to dish out on targets that really matter.
    Your argument might be valid IF there was a priority target every 30 seconds. Even on Galakras there really isn't. There are priority interrupts (Shaman), but only the Totems and Banners are priority kill and they are one shots.

    You call it uncontrollable damagewhoring machines, but lets be frank. Your job as a damage dealer is to deal damage. As much as possible while still keeping up with mechanics. For this reason that mediocre dot (which is actually quite a bit of damage during sustained aoe) is the better talent.
    I could see Storm Bolt on Siegecrafter belt, but Bloodbath should be up every time anyways and the weapon should be alive for the full duration.

    Really I can't think of any fight in which Storm Bolt would be better than Bloodbath for Arms.

  2. #22
    I've been finding storm bolt godlike, especially if you're on assembly line duty on siegecrafter :3

  3. #23
    Looking forward to the Stormbolt effect on Siegecrafter HC. Plus those 1.2m crits on Thok HC on pull are amazing.

    It's also nice to have something substantial to hit Thok with when he is pacing up on down and when us melee can not catch him.

  4. #24
    So I spoke to my guildmate who still raids as Fury with Stormbolt, and it's still his 2nd or 3rd dmg every boss from what I see. He says the secret is the trinket from Galakras and his Hellscream weapons. If it's not viable I don't see how he's topping charts in a guild that raids and conquers heroic content. It's good.
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  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    So I spoke to my guildmate who still raids as Fury with Stormbolt, and it's still his 2nd or 3rd dmg every boss from what I see. He says the secret is the trinket from Galakras and his Hellscream weapons. If it's not viable I don't see how he's topping charts in a guild that raids and conquers heroic content. It's good.
    Because that's a piss poor metric. Is it true? Yes. But it's not true because your friend said it is, and just because they are 1.) Killing heroics and 2.) "topping charts."

    The reason being that there are many piss poor warriors, and many piss poor raiders out there.

    Defend a talent based on evidence. Not because "my friend sayed so and he gud."

  6. #26
    As always, you need to take a Zanax Darkfriend. Maybe 2.

    And your argument is invalid.
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  7. #27
    How is his argument invalid when he is using the truth as an argument?
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  8. #28
    Pit Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    I think people have gotten confused on this topic.

    The topic, misleading as though it was, wasn't Storm Bolts viability as Fury, but Storm Bolts viability as ARMS, which is what Sarri and myself were arguing against, Storm Bolt is actually pretty poopy for Arms.

    Storm Bolts awesomeness as Fury has never been in question.

    The short version is Yes: Storm Bolt is king for Fury in 99% of situations.
    And No: Storm Bolt is bad for Arms in 99% of situations.
    The only situation in which Storm Bolt may be useful for Arms is doing H Siegecrafter belt duty, in which you are quite honestly gimping yourself/raid by being Arms in the first place.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2013-11-02 at 09:17 PM.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    As always, you need to take a Zanax Darkfriend. Maybe 2.

    And your argument is invalid.
    How so?

    As always I argue for LOGIC. Stormbolt is good because testing, sims, and extensive real world experience from many warriors prove it is. It has great synergy with our trinkets, and with our change to TG being the strongest spec over SMF/TG being much closer in ToT.

    That is why it is good.

    It isn't good because I say it is. It isn't good because I'm good, or bad because I'm bad. It isn't good because I raid in a guild killing heroics, or bad because I raid in a guild that isn't.

    None of those are good arguments for doing something. People have used a similar argument for windsong on OH "But Landsoul does it so it must be good."

    I care not only about the TRUTH of a statement but the REASON behind defending that statement. I will argue all day about something that is TRUE but has BAD reasoning/evidence to support it. Like I'm doing here.

    Now, there are certainly times to take someones word for something. I generally expect people to take my word when I give them fury advice, but if they want the reasoning I can do that to, it just takes time. If Collision posts math on something, I'm generally going to take his word on it. When Archi posts some arms math shit, I'll take his word for it. The reason is credibility.

    But I'll still test and look at other things. Because mistakes happen. And none of those people mention just say "take my word for it im gud raider." There is a reason for doing stuff. A good reason.

    (PS, just saying "Your arguement is invalid" doesn't actually have any impact on truth, just FYI.)

    Honestly ya'll would scare away anyone who doesnt like to argue as much as I do.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-11-03 at 02:50 AM.

  10. #30
    Nobody takes people seriously who come off so abrupt and offensive. You don't need to act like that. You sound like a child. Whether or not you're right; you sound like a child, and therefore are just annoying.

    Take the time to explain yourself instead of just spouting off, charging in like some angry 60 year old man who doesn't know what his name is during lunch time at the old home. You just make yourself look like a clown. No one cares how smart you are when you act like that. It's disrespectful, and you aren't a big bad bully who puts people on blast and you're the better for it. You're just annoying.
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  11. #31
    Pit Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    As blunt and tactless as Dark can be, he was right. And now you are doing the same thing you accuse him of. No one will take you seriously when your evidence is "a friend said so", then get into an argument flinging insults when you are told that isn't a good basis for fact.

    Regardless, this thread has gone on far too long and detailed a few times already. As I pointed out before the topic of the thread was never about SBs usefulness as Fury, but as Arms, and for that it is poopy.
    There are two very good Warrior guides at the top of this forum
    edit: and a third for prot that I've never read, I'll just go ahead and assume it's good too!
    And any further questions regarding playstyle should be brought there.

    Sj, I think it's time for you to shine! Use them super powers please.

  12. #32
    I find it funny that almost every thread where Darkfriend posts, ends up off topic.
    Can the mods start doing something please, like locking threads when this happens?

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    Nobody takes people seriously who come off so abrupt and offensive. You don't need to act like that. You sound like a child. Whether or not you're right; you sound like a child, and therefore are just annoying.

    Take the time to explain yourself instead of just spouting off, charging in like some angry 60 year old man who doesn't know what his name is during lunch time at the old home. You just make yourself look like a clown. No one cares how smart you are when you act like that. It's disrespectful, and you aren't a big bad bully who puts people on blast and you're the better for it. You're just annoying.

    To be fair, most intelligent people listen to WHAT a person says, not only how they interpret the intention of what they are saying.

    I'm sorry you dislike the way it's worded. I concern myself more with a solid logical argument than one which people will automatically construe as polite.

    However, you're a rager, someone who can't defend so they'd rather yell and scream and call names. So I'll just ignore you and help the warriors who want to improve instead of staying bad.

    Also, to be fair the topic did start as SB as FURY, not arms. That was an addition. So discussing SB as fury is actually less OT than SB as arms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWLLY View Post
    I find it funny that almost every thread where Darkfriend posts, ends up off topic.
    Can the mods start doing something please, like locking threads when this happens?
    Who are you and why should 1.) The mods care 2.) What have you done for warriors so they should care?

    If we want to start making stuff personal, as it seems you do.

    Honestly, if you don't like something feel free to ignore the person, or send a mod a PM. Passive aggressive posts won't help if you ACTUALLY care about staying on topic, since they themselves are off topic.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-11-03 at 02:18 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWLLY View Post
    I find it funny that almost every thread where Darkfriend posts, ends up off topic.
    Can the mods start doing something please, like locking threads when this happens?
    It's like Archi said... you don't have to like dark but he's usually right

  15. #35
    I just said that in every thread he posts on it's usually arguing about something not related to the thread, usually logic bullshit etc etc that no one cares about.
    The delete post button exists for something.

    The answer to the OP is already given -> lock thread as soon as people start talking about other shit.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWLLY View Post
    I just said that in every thread he posts on it's usually arguing about something not related to the thread, usually logic bullshit etc etc that no one cares about.
    The delete post button exists for something.

    The answer to the OP is already given -> lock thread as soon as people start talking about other shit.
    The problem with that is that threads evolve. Not every thread deals with only the topic on hand, many of them cover other questions, and other aspects of the game/class etc.

    In this case, it's pretty much answered. SB as fury, BB as arms. But to be honest if OP spent a few minutes looking over the forum this topic wouldn't have been needed. If that was the case, shouldn't this thread have been locked from the start? Not necessarily. Although we may know where information is present in this warrior board, others may not. Some glaringly obvious questions with answers easily found are asked, yes, but sometimes the answer is hidden, known only to the more, shall we say esoteric.

    And counter point: "no one" and "myself" are two different things.

  17. #37
    I think the main question is: why are you playing arms on anything other than maybe Heroic Galakras progression (if you're lacking aoe dmg) when Fury outperforms it by far on every single encounter?

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    I think the main question is: why are you playing arms on anything other than maybe Heroic Galakras progression (if you're lacking aoe dmg) when Fury outperforms it by far on every single encounter?
    Well 10m and 25 are different animals. Same number of adds in 10m heroic Immersius with a third the DPS to kill them. So I played arms for our first kill. 10m protectors we stacked them, so I played arms.

    I actually played Fury for our heroic galakras kill, since we needed the damage on the boss. It wasn't great on the adds, but we had an ele shaman so I mainly worked on getting down the shamans.

  19. #39
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    I felt a bat signal.

    Ok guys, this has gone on long enough. The biggest epeen in the room is.....infractions! We aren't here to discuss logic or reasoning. So, talk stormbolt or get out. Thanks guys :P

    On topic, I can't think of an encounter where bloodbath or avatar is better as fury. Can you? Stormbolt simply hits to hard in a global.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    On topic, I can't think of an encounter where bloodbath or avatar is better as fury. Can you? Stormbolt simply hits to hard in a global.
    My warrior is merely an underplayed alt so forgive my ignorance, but I assume SB's superiority only applies to TG? Particularly in the case of SMF with lousy ToT weapons it seems BB is still the better choice?

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