Garrosh the wall Hellscream 25 man

[Belloc]

What % are you getting the boss to when the second intermission hits?

[Deathzero]

Double post. Phone mistake.

I honestly cant give you an accurate number while I am at work. You would have to look at video if baron can post it. Sorry im at work so no access atm. I would say we are 37 to 44% but no guarantee.

[Deleted]

About the P2 dps that Zinnin posted I looked at your Balance druids and to be completely honest they're doing very bad, only 100k dps / 120ish.

Boomkiñ has 4p and the two best trinkets he could possibly get, and he only did 100k dps in P2 which is terrible. He only had 45% uptime on Nature's Grace which should be 95+ (Depending on movement abit/mindcontrols).

[Ailylia]

I attempted to kite the adds we ended up getting another intermission. Problem was some people had killed adds making half of them empowered. Since we got the 3rd intermission we had a new set of adds before we got back leaving me sandwiched between existing empowered adds and new adds. I died shortly thereafter. Since I was trying to repickup all adds. Kite is not going to be viable if we cant make that intermission.

Don't forget to set your beacon to the center of the room so that if you get cornered you can just teleport away from the pack of adds and get some distance on them.

[Rotted]

I haven't touched real raiding in a while, but when I did, our major kills took dozens of attempts, and we were raiding 4 nights a week, 4 hours each night. Just saying, it might just take you a bit long than you originally thought to do it

[Belloc]

Double post. Phone mistake.

I honestly cant give you an accurate number while I am at work. You would have to look at video if baron can post it. Sorry im at work so no access atm. I would say we are 37 to 44% but no guarantee.

If you're getting it to 37%, then that's absolutely fantastic. If you're getting it to 44%, then it could be a little better, but it's still fine. My stack-in-melee-for-whirlwind suggestion will drop it by 2-4% and put you that much closer.

Anyway, that's pretty much exactly where we were: 38-40% for second intermission. We got to the point where we would consistently wipe at the third cast of empowered corruption. We just couldn't push the boss before that third set of adds. The first time we tried kiting, not having to kill those adds made such a huge difference that we got ONE set of adds and pushed to phase 3.

Now, it seems like you guys are completely opposed to kiting and I can understand that. I was flabbergasted when our raid leader decided we were going to try kiting AGAIN! This was after we tried using DKs to kite and met with utter failure. But, seriously, we went from wiping at the third set of adds to getting one set and pushing into phase 3 (and getting the kill on the same attempt) from that ONE change. So, once again, I suggest assigning a spot for your players to spread out (so that they're not all over the room), picking up the adds, and kiting them. If you are, in fact, around 40% when you hit the second intermission, then that should give you the DPS you need to push phase 3 before you get too many adds. You may still get a second cast, but that should be easy enough to deal with (we did, after all, get 2 more casts in phase 3 and kiting still wasn't an issue. No amount of adds will be an issue once you are sufficiently practiced in kiting them. Remember how monks used to kite bats for the entirety of the heroic Tortos fight?).


If you aren't willing to do kiting, then, at the very least, consider stacking up in melee for regular whirling corruptions. I've seen no comment from you or your raid leader on this change, but I strongly suggest it.

Also, if you aren't willing to kite, then you absolutely, 100%, need to improve your DPS on a raid-wide scale. Nothing else will fix this problem.

[Deathzero]

If you're getting it to 37%, then that's absolutely fantastic. If you're getting it to 44%, then it could be a little better, but it's still fine. My stack-in-melee-for-whirlwind suggestion will drop it by 2-4% and put you that much closer.

Problem is melee is staying in melee range for WW ranged in ranged. So we wont be getting much dps gain from it.

[Deleted]

OP, the best thing you can do is tell your dps to really learn their specs, because a lot of the people in the group are underperforming extremely. Below 200k dps with ilvl 560 on this fight shouldn't even be possible. Make sure people actually know their rotations and CD usage and make sure everyone stays alive. Do that and you'll see an extreme difference.

As it looks right now, Norushen will be a wall you won't be able to climb over, even with ilvl 570, which is about BiS from the first 2 bosses heroic + full warforged normal. Your raid members simply have to learn to dps. I think our lowest dps had 200k on our first kill and that was with ilvl ~545-550 in a 10man guild and that person is far below the rest of the group in bringing high dps.

I haven't touched real raiding in a while, but when I did, our major kills took dozens of attempts, and we were raiding 4 nights a week, 4 hours each night. Just saying, it might just take you a bit long than you originally thought to do it

Well this is normal. Garrosh normal is basically a gear check for heroics, not much more than that. They overgear it by almost 20 ilvls now (from what the supposed threshold is) and a lot of their dps is underperforming very badly.

- - - Updated - - -

Double post. Phone mistake.

I honestly cant give you an accurate number while I am at work. You would have to look at video if baron can post it. Sorry im at work so no access atm. I would say we are 37 to 44% but no guarantee.

35-37% is what my guild brought him to this week with 2man healing it and all of us above 250k dps, are you sure that it's 37-44%? Because if it's that low, then just make sure everyone stays alive and that should be it really.

[fiestatastic]

you guys aren't dealing with mechanics correctly, a lot. Work on your mechanics, MC's are the MOST important part of the fight by far, then dealing with the empowered corruption.

It just really seems like your raid group is not dealing with the mechanics correctly and the few decent attempts you have are when you get lucky and the couple of people who ARE dealing with the mechanics correctly don't get MC'd and end up in good spots on empowered corruption .... so you're effectively playing an rng game in itself with bad raider roulette.

Drill the strat into their heads. You don't need to work on your strat, any number of different strats work just fine for this fight, it's execution of any of them that your raid group is unfortunately having trouble with.

[Deathzero]

you guys aren't dealing with mechanics correctly, a lot. Work on your mechanics, MC's are the MOST important part of the fight by far, then dealing with the empowered corruption.

It just really seems like your raid group is not dealing with the mechanics correctly and the few decent attempts you have are when you get lucky and the couple of people who ARE dealing with the mechanics correctly don't get MC'd and end up in good spots on empowered corruption .... so you're effectively playing an rng game in itself with bad raider roulette.

Drill the strat into their heads. You don't need to work on your strat, any number of different strats work just fine for this fight, it's execution of any of them that your raid group is unfortunately having trouble with.

Im not sure I get the advice from this post. I dont feel the MC mechanic is the issue. I.think the issue is people single targeting weapons and not dealing with adds fast enough. Empower whirlwind is an issue yes still. I though5 we had dealt with but it seems so random.that people just fall over to it. Although that may be due to add spawns. MCs I feel are very strong we almost always.get them.all before someone gets a cast off. In a couple p3 attempts we had issues but that was cause we had adds up and had not dealt with them. Just not sure how to improve dps without handholding.

I will try to summarize the thread as best I can when I get home from work today.

[Belmorn]

Your goal is to either push the boss before the third intermission into phase 3 or to have the boss on less than 50 energy after the third intermission.
With your ilvl this should definitely be possible.
The one we got the most improvement out of was optimizing jade serpent temple. Assign ranged to the ones close to Garrosh, melee close to the spot you spawn at.
Terrace : Chain stampeding roar , keep pets on passive, dont damage adds on the way up there, and really dont slow them.
Crane temple : Assign two teams of roughly equal dps strength to both sides. If one side manages to clear earlier, they can still help the other side by going inside the area where garrosh is at.

Furthermore, you really cant have any deaths in p1 , you will need the resses in the 2nd phase.
As others said, we dont know how you handle movement / mechanics in p2.
You have to realize though that ranged moving a lot means a lot less dps, try and minimize it.

[arcaneshot]

I would suggest your raid just plain stack on Garrosh in P1 and P2 between the first and 2nd intermissions. All the adds run to one place, but so do the Desecrated Weapons. Not moving obviously puts more strain on the healers, but the DPS gain should more than make up for it (moving hurts your DPS a lot).

You can either deal with the Desecrated Weapons in two ways: 1) you just eat them and kill them as soon as they come out (shouldn't be hard since everyone is going to be right next to it), or 2) you assign a small group of range DPS to move out before the Weapon is ready to be thrown. How you do that is up to you, but you can just stack them all at the same spot and ignore them.

In P2 there is no reason why you can't just have your entire raid group eat the regular Whirling Corruption, since that doesn't do anything special.

If you have a DPS monk in your raid, I highly suggest you have him switch to Brewmaster and kite the adds the entire fight. This ups DPS time on Garrosh with the tradeoff of losing your Monk's DPS, but the tradeoff is very often worth it.

For Empowered Whirling Corruption have the raid move around Garrosh in a roughly circular pattern; don't let them run out to the middle of nowhere because a) they won't get healed out there and b) the add they spawn out there will be out of position.

Anyone that dies to Annihilate or Empowered Whirling Corruption needs to pay more attention to what they're standing in. Dying to either of those is not acceptable.

[Deleted]

You say people are single targeting weapons ? why ?, if every dot class keeps 90%+ uptime on weapon it should be no problem(sometimes you might need to switch but rarely).
About the empowered corruption we had a lot of troubles with that as well the first 2 weeks, we ended up splitting the raid into some that killed adds and some that stayed tunnel on boss to reach the 10% before 3rd intermission. this way we had less issues with ppl taking agro on the wrong adds, and got more damage on boss for the 10%, Also the off tank can take 3-5 of the adds and have them in melee and just go down to single target/cleave, he should be able to tank them even when buffed, this will take a lot of stress off your range.

When we get empowered corruption, we start to ignore the weapons and just go in a circle around the room, just have raid markers set around the room roughly the range of a full hp weapon. So you get weapon>move>emp corrption, deal with it>stack back at the edge of weapon>MC>new weapon>move>corrotion>MC>weapon>hopefully 10% before 3rd corroption. Once we reach phase 3 we start kiting adds, sometimes earlier we got the 3rd corroption just before we hit 10% at times like that it is very important as a raid leader to tell your raiders to not kill the adds.

To me this fight is all about maximizing dps on garrosh so you get ph3 before 3rd intermission, a lot of dps can be waisted on running around with the adds.

[Khorm]

This guy and his raid leader have their head in the sand. Plenty of good advice about mechanics and DPS going around however they argue on the mechanics part and completely ignore those who are saying their raids DPS is too low and that some of their players need to become better.

[Deathzero]

This guy and his raid leader have their head in the sand. Plenty of good advice about mechanics and DPS going around however they argue on the mechanics part and completely ignore those who are saying their raids DPS is too low and that some of their players need to become better.

Not sure how we have our head in the sand? I'm not arguing it at all. In fact we have taken lots of this thread and decided to change our strat. The dps being too low is some part due to the fact there were some strat issues affecting dps by alot. We only raid 2 nights a week so there isn't much we can do to go kill the boss and put this stuff into affect in the mean time. Unless you found a magical way to go back in time to raid day and put into effect lots of these changes. So if you don't actually have information to contribute maybe you should go find somewhere else to spend your time.

[Mizzow]

Hey there. Most of the posters above are giving great information about both your tactic and raid team.

Let me quickly explain what we do. My guild run 3 Tanks (War, War, Monk) and 6 Healers on Garrosh. During phase 2/3 the Monk tank just picks up and kites the adds for the rest of the fight. Completely ignoring a fight mechanic allows us to run even less dps (Some nights we ran 7/8 healers just for laughs) since not having to deal with the adds makes the fight stupidly easy.

Of course we still use the Iron star to kill adds in P1. Lust at the pull and then in P3.

You have Monks in your group. Kiting adds does not require any tank gear since he will be never taking hits anyway.

(Note: Even with the extra tank/healers we never get a 3rd intermission phase, and trust me our general raid dps is not that high)

[Xrxes]

I'll give you our strategy, we are in roughly 558-560 as you, on average.. Some people are at 563-564, while 50% are at 556-559 area. So around 559-560 average.

We stacked at everything.

Axe, we dpsed it down while all raid stacked, 14 mil in 25 man is a joke, dies in 5-6 seconds. We always use at least 2 raid wide cooldowns, warrior + smoke bomb, or druid + pally etc..., we use CDs and dps it down quickly.
MC, we have 2 warriors arms, they bladestorm and aoe interrupt the MC, MC is no problem for us.
Regular whirling also stacked, we heal/use CDs on it, it's easier than the axe actually.

We used BL in phase 2, after intermission 1. We entered intermission 2 at 25%, we exited intermission 2 at 21% for boss (we dpsed basically 14% down in Int 2), than we just pushed him in phase 3. In phase 3 we stacked at start for MC, all people helped (bigger HP pool for MC people), we used the warrior interrupts for it. spread at whirling than back again on boss, while tank picked addds and kited them. Phase 3 didn't last more than 30 seconds.

We basically zerged our first kill and zerged our second kill even harder, with the extra gear.

Good CD usage on Axe/whirling in phase 2 and interrupts on MC makes this fight a joke since you can actually overlook any mechanic.

Here is our log for the last night kill we did.

I'm one of the warriors.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12404&e=12925

[Salystra]

Looking through nearly all your raids uptimes on their dots they are pretty appalling to be honest.

I'd advise that you suggest to your ENTIRE guild to get dot trackers and concentrate on keeping their debuffs/buffs up!

Mages for instance are suffering from horrific dot uptimes/evocation bonus uptime/no alter time usage etc etc

[stormy78]

Why even touch the weapons at all from Phase 2 onwards? Its a DPS loss as there is no need to kill them at all. Check how we move in our 25 man kill to get an idea about what I mean when I say do not touch the weapons in P2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPccVN_vtA

Phase 1 we just have people DoT the weapon and 1 Arcane Mage focus it down, a Hunter and Mage deal with engineer.
As soon as Garrosh heals up to 100% have your DPS cleave off him onto the adds (unless you still have a wolf up then focus it down), the adds will be so low on health they will either die then and there or die as you start Phase 2.
You want to go into 1st intermission with Garrosh at around 95% or less.
Phase 2 ignore the weapons and just move for desecrate. Deal with MC's. If there are more in ranged than melee, melee deal with theirs and then 1 or 2 Rogues move over to help the ranged.
By Intermission 2 you want Garrosh at sub 30%.
When you come out deal with the adds as the spawn and push Garrosh before intermission 3
Lust when is goes in P3 and still deal with the other mechanics as and when. Have a tank kite any adds that spawn in P3.
Kill it.

[Deleted]

Why even touch the weapons at all from Phase 2 onwards? Its a DPS loss as there is no need to kill them at all. Check how we move in our 25 man kill to get an idea about what I mean when I say do not touch the weapons in P2.

Phase 1 we just have people DoT the weapon and 1 Arcane Mage focus it down, a Hunter and Mage deal with engineer.
As soon as Garrosh heals up to 100% have your DPS cleave off him onto the adds (unless you still have a wolf up then focus it down), the adds will be so low on health they will either die then and there or die as you start Phase 2.
You want to go into 1st intermission with Garrosh at around 95% or less.
Phase 2 ignore the weapons and just move for desecrate. Deal with MC's. If there are more in ranged than melee, melee deal with theirs and then 1 or 2 Rogues move over to help the ranged.
By Intermission 2 you want Garrosh at sub 30%.
When you come out deal with the adds as the spawn and push Garrosh before intermission 3
Lust when is goes in P3 and still deal with the other mechanics as and when. Have a tank kite any adds that spawn in P3.
Kill it.

This strategy is by far the most efficient. I've seen so many different positioning strats, but this one (which is derived from Method's heroic strat, right?) avoids so much wasted dps & wasted movement that it is demonstrably 'better'. Few things to add for clarity: you only need 7 people outside melee range to bait weapons, so pick your most mobile dps/healers for that team. Having some of your high threat healers in melee range in p1 will make the tanks life super easy, but the tanks will probably want to taunt the boss when he does war cry (if not to make surviving easy, then to share the vengeance and increase total dps).