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  1. #1

    AMR crit weight? TG warrior

    what are people using as their Crit Weight with AskMrRobot? at ilvl 556, mine crit weight is sitting at 4.75 giving me 37.58% crit. i upped the weight to 9.9 which just meant i had to gem purely crit gems and change 2 reforges and that gave me 39.08% crit but lost 397 str, 2.84% mast and 873 attack power. im curious if it'd give me a higher dps at the cost of strength. too much gold to spend testing it, was curious if anyone is going just pure crit gems on everything

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Test it with simcraft and use the weights it gives you, generally you should try to socket

    Red = 160 EXP + 160Crit
    Yellow = 320 Crit
    Blue = 160 Crit + 160 Hit


    It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though Ask Mr Robot will do that for you, to tell you when it is worth just socketting pure crit, or when you should go for the socket bonus. You can't just make it up as you go along though and set the weights based on your imagination (ie crit on 9), use Simcraft for your weights or atleast the basic weights that AMR provides.
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  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Test it with simcraft and use the weights it gives you, generally you should try to socket

    Red = 160 EXP + 160Crit
    Yellow = 320 Crit
    Blue = 160 Crit + 160 Hit


    It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though Ask Mr Robot will do that for you, to tell you when it is worth just socketting pure crit, or when you should go for the socket bonus. You can't just make it up as you go along though and set the weights based on your imagination (ie crit on 9), use Simcraft for your weights or atleast the basic weights that AMR provides.
    There are plenty of times its not worth meeting all red sockets.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Test it with simcraft and use the weights it gives you, generally you should try to socket

    Red = 160 EXP + 160Crit
    Yellow = 320 Crit
    Blue = 160 Crit + 160 Hit


    It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though Ask Mr Robot will do that for you, to tell you when it is worth just socketting pure crit, or when you should go for the socket bonus. You can't just make it up as you go along though and set the weights based on your imagination (ie crit on 9), use Simcraft for your weights or atleast the basic weights that AMR provides.
    There are a lot of socketbonuses you do not have to care about.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    I think you both failed reading comprehension. I told him to use Simcraft to get stat weights, import those into AMR to calculate which socket bonuses he should ignore and which he should take.



    I have a ring with red socket 60haste bonus, still worth it due to 160exp/160crit being such a strong gem when stats allow for it, "Not caring" about this socket bonus would be a dps loss, using this gem could result in more reforging to crit on gear which would result in a net gain all round.

    You should never blindly ignore socket bonuses just as much as you should never blindly take socket bonuses, and whether you do or not can change with every item you swap out of your gearset, this is why we have tools like Simcraft and Ask Mr Robot.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2013-10-26 at 05:37 AM.
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  6. #6
    The reason why people gem exp/crit and hit/crit (most of the time) is that you are effectively gemming mastery/crit when doing this.

    Any extra expertise that is added to your gear via gemming means that you need to remove that amount of expertise from reforging, and as we already have crit on everything, it is eventually reforged into mastery via the 5-10 items that you reforge to get back to expertise cap.

    Generally with gemming, I'll reforge all the expertise off my gear, then put exp/crit in every red socket until I fall somewhere between 2545-2600. Even with the "Wasted" overcap expertise up to 2600, it will still be slightly better than ignoring that socket in most cases.

    When it comes to weird stat bonuses on a socket, such as +60 haste, unfortunately it will require knowledge of your characters stat values. Crit/mastery vary way too much depending on trinkets, tier bonuses and weapons to tell you an exact answer.

    If you plug your stat values from simcraft into AMR (Don't use the import function on simcraft, it's kinda buggy sometimes), AMR's gear optimizer is actually pretty damn good about getting the best gemming solution for you, if you don't feel like wasting a bunch of gold or time.

    This is how I do it:

    1: Download simcraft: https://code.google.com/p/simulation...downloads/list
    2: Extract, run the simulationcraft.exe file
    3: Import your character
    4: Use these settings:

    Make sure to set "Threads" to the amount of cores on your computer, unless you're doing other stuff. I have 4 cores, and I generally always set it to 2 threads because it will use every ounce of cpu processing power if it is set to 4, and I like to browse the internet and such while it's running. But If I'm running something overnight while I'm sleeping, I'll set it at 4.

    Weapon dps isn't important enough to simulate, simply because higher ilevel weapons will almost ALWAYS win out, unless you're comparing agility vs str weapons.
    5: Click Simulate!

    Wait anywhere from 5-10 minutes, computer speed dependent.

    It'll pop up something like this: (I cheated and did 10k iterations just as an example.)


    ** IMPORTANT** If you are overcap on expertise/hit (anything over 8%) the values for "Exp" and "Hit" will be wrong in your simulation. The simulation takes your stats, subtracts 1000 from them, and then finds out how much dps you lose from it. Under-cap expertise and hit are by far the most important stats, so if you're in doubt, just put them as the values listed here as they will not be too far off anyway.

    Then you'll plug in the numbers into the edit function on AMR like this



    Just leave AMR's default value for weapons on there, it doesn't change much from person to person.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I think you both failed reading comprehension. I told him to use Simcraft to get stat weights, import those into AMR to calculate which socket bonuses he should ignore and which he should take.



    I have a ring with red socket 60haste bonus, still worth it due to 160exp/160crit being such a strong gem when stats allow for it, "Not caring" about this socket bonus would be a dps loss, using this gem could result in more reforging to crit on gear which would result in a net gain all round.

    You should never blindly ignore socket bonuses just as much as you should never blindly take socket bonuses, and whether you do or not can change with every item you swap out of your gearset, this is why we have tools like Simcraft and Ask Mr Robot.
    These are your words. "It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats"

    This is not always true.

    You fail at reading comprehension, not I.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    These are your words. "It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats"

    This is not always true.

    You fail at reading comprehension, not I.
    A quote taken out of context because you choose to focus on those words instead of the post as a whole. That is a fail in reading comprehension. It's the same kinda thing that newspapers get slated for when quoting things people say, missing out important parts of the whole quote to emphasise a part that without the complete text would tell a different story.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2013-10-26 at 07:37 PM.
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  9. #9
    sorry but bigbazz, your wrong, rather massively so in fact. what you do with gems varies person by person, gear set by gear set, im going to make an example...
    currently all my red sockets have a exp/crit in them, but if i was to get hc tier shoulders i would be wasting expertise if i did so, so i would have to either go strength/crit or pure crit in either my red socketed boots or cloak, which would depend on the stat weight of strength compared to crit, unless i got thoks by that point, as then i would know i would be better sacrificing the strength bonus from the cloak socket and going pure crit in the cloak slot.
    or an another example... every sane player with greatsword of pride gems it pure crit, because crit hit gems are useless unless its for a +120 strength bonus or better in even its best cases, sometimes its not worth it even then
    Last edited by Damosapien; 2013-10-26 at 08:58 PM.
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  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damosapien View Post
    sorry but bigbazz, your wrong, rather massively so in fact. what you do with gems varies person by person, gear set by gear set, im going to make an example...
    currently all my red sockets have a exp/crit in them, but if i was to get hc tier shoulders i would be wasting expertise if i did so, so i would have to either go strength/crit or pure crit in either my red socketed boots or cloak, which would depend on the stat weight of strength compared to crit, unless i got thoks by that point, as then i would know i would be better sacrificing the strength bonus from the cloak socket and going pure crit in the cloak slot.
    or an another example... every sane player with greatsword of pride gems it pure crit, because crit hit gems are useless unless its for a +120 strength bonus or better in even its best cases, sometimes its not worth it even then
    Again reading comprehension, you're not even on the same page to understanding what i said.

    to quote myself


    You should never blindly ignore socket bonuses just as much as you should never blindly take socket bonuses, and whether you do or not can change with every item you swap out of your gearset

    Since people cannot read or understand full posts on this forum maybe I should just write small quotes in bold, so not to confuse people or cause them to need to read the full post.

    Don't abuse capital/oversized text. -Senen
    Last edited by Senen; 2013-10-28 at 05:23 AM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Damosapien View Post
    sorry but bigbazz, your wrong, rather massively so in fact. what you do with gems varies person by person, gear set by gear set, im going to make an example...
    currently all my red sockets have a exp/crit in them, but if i was to get hc tier shoulders i would be wasting expertise if i did so, so i would have to either go strength/crit or pure crit in either my red socketed boots or cloak, which would depend on the stat weight of strength compared to crit, unless i got thoks by that point, as then i would know i would be better sacrificing the strength bonus from the cloak socket and going pure crit in the cloak slot.
    or an another example... every sane player with greatsword of pride gems it pure crit, because crit hit gems are useless unless its for a +120 strength bonus or better in even its best cases, sometimes its not worth it even then
    Not really.
    Btw, I loaded your character on AMR and you can get 960 crit by losing 360 str, 384 mastery and 396 haste, while keeping the hit/exp capped. Maybe you should look into that.
    The only reason you have a orange gem on your cloak is because you can reforge the extra expertise to crit/mastery, not because the bonus is 60/120 str.
    The same doesn't happen with the sha sword because you'd have even more hit over the cap (in your case). I've 2 sha swords with 2 green gems.

    (if you think those 960 crit are worse, maybe you should know that simc assumes you have a 95%+ uptime on enrage, which you don't. that's why crit is more valuable than what simc says)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I have a ring with red socket 60haste bonus, still worth it due to 160exp/160crit being such a strong gem when stats allow for it, "Not caring" about this socket bonus would be a dps loss, using this gem could result in more reforging to crit on gear which would result in a net gain all round.
    This pretty much. +1 to you sir.
    160 exp + 160 crit + 60 haste > 320 crit, only if you can reforge the extra expertise to crit/mastery.

    People should really stop overcomplicating everything.
    Last edited by SLOWLLY; 2013-10-27 at 12:01 AM.

  12. #12
    Poor Bigbazz lol! The three of you telling him he's blatantly wrong really should have actually *read* his entire post before jumping on him.

    To the OP: We really can't give you a precise value for crit since it obviously varies based on the gear you have and, as already mentioned, you really need to just sim your character and pull the weights from the results. That, or simply manipulate the stat values so that they match the basic / general weight of hit > exp > crit > mast > str > haste. Collision's post is pretty much exactly what I do and I don't think it gets any more helpful than that (teach a man to fish and all ^^).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWLLY View Post
    Not really.
    Btw, I loaded your character on AMR and you can get 960 crit by losing 360 str, 384 mastery and 396 haste, while keeping the hit/exp capped. Maybe you should look into that.
    The only reason you have a orange gem on your cloak is because you can reforge the extra expertise to crit/mastery, not because the bonus is 60/120 str.
    The same doesn't happen with the sha sword because you'd have even more hit over the cap (in your case). I've 2 sha swords with 2 green gems.
    if your going to make optimization calls at least make them the right ones, the changes that would be correct would actually changing the gems in my shoulders to pure crit, then changing the haste on cloak to expertise,
    which combines to be a loss of 396 haste and 120 strength for 320 crit and some overcap expertise
    thanks for mentioning something though i guess
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  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    He blatantly qualified his statement by stating "It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though "

    This is what we call "Making a claim"

    He said IT DOES NOT PAY. He is making a claim. A claim which is false, since in some cases it DOES pay.

    It's rather simple logic. We rip this shit apart in debate all the time. What you meant to say doesn't matter. What you said does.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-10-27 at 03:28 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Damosapien View Post
    if your going to make optimization calls at least make them the right ones, the changes that would be correct would actually changing the gems in my shoulders to pure crit, then changing the haste on cloak to expertise,
    which combines to be a loss of 396 haste and 120 strength for 320 crit and some overcap expertise
    thanks for mentioning something though i guess
    I just used the default TG weights, which are the best for every TG fury over 550 ilvl up to BiS (at least has been working for me).

    You can just ignore me, but it's a fact that your gear can still be optimized:
    http://i.imgur.com/Vx1lX0c.png
    Last edited by SLOWLLY; 2013-10-27 at 12:41 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SLOWLLY View Post
    I just used the default TG weights, which are the best for every TG fury over 550 ilvl up to BiS (at least has been working for me).

    You can just ignore me, but it's a fact that your gear can still be optimized:
    http://i.imgur.com/Vx1lX0c.png
    The default stat weights on AMR is good, but they are not even close to optimal. As has been said already, if you want to get optimal settings you'll need to use Sim-C to sim your own char.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    He blatantly qualified his statement by stating "It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though "

    This is what we call "Making a claim"

    He said IT DOES NOT PAY. He is making a claim. A claim which is false, since in some cases it DOES pay.

    It's rather simple logic. We rip this shit apart in debate all the time. What you meant to say doesn't matter. What you said does.
    Except, in the other half of his sentence (which you failed to quote) he *did* say that sometimes it pays to ignore socket bonuses, including mentioning that the OP (or anyone else with a similar question) should sim their character in SimC and then plug the results in AMR to determine what sockets are worth gemming for or not. "Debate" it all you want; you're wrong, but there appears to be no sense in attempting to convince you otherwise.

  18. #18
    yes your right, default is totally better than personalized weights.. how could i ever think otherwise?
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    He blatantly qualified his statement by stating "It doesn't pay to waste socket bonuses to gem pure crit since exp/hit are the highest value stats (up until cap), with proper stat weights though "

    This is what we call "Making a claim"

    He said IT DOES NOT PAY. He is making a claim. A claim which is false, since in some cases it DOES pay.

    It's rather simple logic. We rip this shit apart in debate all the time. What you meant to say doesn't matter. What you said does.
    In debate? What do you do, you take what is relevant to your arguement and junk everything else that is said to engineer it towards you winning? Sounds like a typical bullshitter to me.


    I said that it does not pay to waste socket bonuses, going on to say that hit and exp are the strongest stats (they are) up until cap, using proper weights from simcraft in AMR to decide whether or not to take or ignore the socket bonuses, rather than making up his own weights out of thin air and using that as a reason to ignore them.


    You have an issue that you can't seem to fully read and understand a post, instead you read what you want to see and ignore the rest so that it serves your purpose in being "right" in your pointless debate. If you think that selective reading makes you good at debate then crack on. Focusing on a small detail that is explained in the big picture is nonsense, but I suppose if you're looking for a job in a tabloid newspaper you're the type of person they are looking for.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    The default stat weights on AMR is good, but they are not even close to optimal. As has been said already, if you want to get optimal settings you'll need to use Sim-C to sim your own char.
    How do you explain that with the default weights, I could optimize his gear, resulting in probably more dps?
    If there's any case between 550-BiS ilvl where any stat priority changes from the TG default ones, let me know, I'd appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damosapien View Post
    yes your right, default is totally better than personalized weights.. how could i ever think otherwise?
    Explain me how I could improve your gear with the defaults weights then.

    I still don't know why you're acting so arrogantly, the screenshot I linked is there to help you, since you can't realise that your gear can be optimized even more.

    Anyway, since people don't really think outside of simc, I'll give you something to think about.
    Compare the enrage uptime on simc and on every single log of yours. Maybe you can conclude something out of it and the real weight of crit.
    Last edited by SLOWLLY; 2013-10-27 at 06:08 PM.

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