Who would win in an unrestrained, completely savage war, China or America?

[Theinquisition]

Well, first things first. This is a fun post, posted in forums that its main audience is from The States, so of course the answers you gonna get ain't even close to reality.

Such a War would turn into a World War since we are talking about two Super-Powers of our ERA.

In a Nuclear War noone would win but the consequences would be terrifying for the Humanity.

Now lets go to the other part: A non-Nuclear War... I've been reading some posts in here speaking about USA Defensive system and how much money has been spend into it, same goes for the USA Army in general. Well thing is we are talking about 2 different countries mentality wise. America is pro-news on those matters and its "democracy" allows its citizens and the world to see the money that has been spend in the army and defense mechanism in general, while China which is a close communist country open to Capitalism in its World-Wide trades never announces or actually has Showed off the money that they've spend building their army, or training it.

That been said, if you compare the facts you already have in your hands you'd get the correct outcome:

USA Army: Well trained army, with experience in actual Wars. Technology wise: Good. Total population of the USA army during 2012 = 798.000 soliders including Air Force, Navy and Marines.

Chinese Army: Training unknown at the moment, experience in War: Thousand of years before. Technology: Definately Unknown. Total population of the Chinese army during 2012 = 2.300.000 soliders.

Hmm with all that combined seems like the Chinese army is more likely to win with having almost triple the army that USA has. Also we are talking about two different mentality countries, where in USA you have rights as a Human being and as a solider you are not treated as a piece of meat. While in China under its current political build if you do something wrong within the army (training etc) they have no remorse of chopping you off turning your skin into soap.

Yep sorry my fellow pro American friends, the American army wouldn't even stand a chance against the Chinese army without nuclear weapons

I disagree with you strongly.

We would wipe the floor with them, the severity depending upon if we are invading or defending.

If were talking about a unrestrained all out, no holds barred (except nukes) it would be over in days.

[mjolnir1122]

Canada waits till they have worn each other down, then invades both in the name of the Queen, and changes both flags to a picture of some indigenous leaf.

and changes both flags to a picture of a Moose.

Fixed that for you. You're welcome

[Crissi]

and changes both flags to a picture of a Moose.

Fixed that for you. You're welcome

I'd be ok with that. Moose are awesome.

Canada: Things could be worse eh?

[Airwaves]

They don't even have the forces to stage a invasion of Austrailia.

Hell they don't have the ability to invade Taiwan, and they've wanted to do that for years.

Nobody has the forces to invade us. We are far to vast and not populated enough. There thousands of Kilometres of bushland that we can disappear into. Sure you could occupy the cites but no army in the world has the forces to occupy Australia.

[Ginantonicus]

Yep sorry my fellow pro American friends, the American army wouldn't even stand a chance against the Chinese army without nuclear weapons

Numbers aren't everything. Boudicca in roman Britain out numbered the Romans by at least 10 to 1 and still lost.

[Christan]

No one would really win such a war.

china wouldn't be able to send it's troops or air force over here, we ahve air and sea superiority
however they have so many people, and afiak good defenses set up...we wouldn't be able to lead much of an incursion without our troops getting wiped out.

who wins is the person playing defensively in that situation...
people making comments about the nukes are right as well.

without nukes...the aggressor would lose.

[Themerlin]

They don't even have the forces to stage a invasion of Austrailia.

Hell they don't have the ability to invade Taiwan, and they've wanted to do that for years.

China has a different tactic on running the world.

Mainly using finances, and imposing their culture, military will come later.

The only reason the states has such a huge military is due to war mongering socio-political cultural influences on its people.

Hollywood and the film industry was a huge factor in changing the mind set of Americans after WW2 and was a perfect tool to subvert trillions towards the military complex.

[Rajadog20]

People think America will win because of there tech. They couldn't even beat the Taliban who live in caves.

The conventional war against Iraq was a joke. The war against the taliban is different. You can't just glass the whole country because most of the people living in the country are good. You can't really just go all out because the risk of killing civilians. The Taliban are living among the innocent people, so you basically have to sit there and wait for them to come find you before you can fight them. Its just like fighting crime, there is no "winning". You will never kill them all, so of course some people will always say we "lost". But it is beyond idiotic to consider "winning" a war like this is killing every single Islamic Extremist, it just isn't possible.

"Winning" a war like this is defined by how safe and stable we make the country, and I would say we have done a pretty good job.

[Flaks]

That's partially because with groups like the Taliban, the only true way to win would be to kill each and every one of them. They are too disorganized to even be called an army.

We gotta play nice though.

It has little to do with the Taliban and it being disorganized and more to do with Afghanistan's terrain and how the natives can use it to their advantage. Despite what the soldiers there might be doing, there's more than enough spec ops forces/private military troops there with the means, motives, and moral flexibility to be doing what you couldn't. So that isn't nearly the problem.

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Nobody has the forces to invade us. We are far to vast and not populated enough. There thousands of Kilometres of bushland that we can disappear into. Sure you could occupy the cites but no army in the world has the forces to occupy Australia.

Nevermind the creatures of the desert rising up in a fit of anti-human rage and purging the island of any transgressors.

[tratra]

I disagree with you strongly.

We would wipe the floor with them, the severity depending upon if we are invading or defending.

If were talking about a unrestrained all out, no holds barred (except nukes) it would be over in days.

Yep ok it takes you something like 2 years to take over afghanistan and iraq having a lot of corpses called as heros. Try to invade an 1.6 billion population country with unknown technology air force and navy. Its also so funny reading by all the PRO-Americans in this forum that china has no air force or navy or anything.

Actually they do have and their air force and navy might be much bigger than the US army, they just don't go telling their media what they actually have or anything like that...

Your point is as dumb as who is the richest man in the world: Carlos Slim... Why is he the richest? Cause he declares them... Good luck going against the Richest arab which declares nothing in his own country and he has actual gold, stones and oil stacked up with his piles of cash... Go watch CNN boy and read what they'r telling you to read...

[Korgoth]

The US nuclear arsenal is so large we could obliterate every inch of populated China, if you want completely savage, that is what would happen.

[tratra]

Numbers aren't everything. Boudicca in roman Britain out numbered the Romans by at least 10 to 1 and still lost.

yep sorry my friend but you'r speaking about ancient "history" which is like: we have 2850 atm, someone finds out a comic of superman and says oh ye man look at that thing during 1990 they had a guy that was flying and protecting em from EVOUL thingz0rs...

so if you are talking about the movie 300 that roids powers wins (maybe) haha but get in reality dude, next time you get in the MMA-Gym try and fight 3 people at once, tell me what u did afterwards....................... DOTS!

[Airwaves]

Nevermind the creatures of the desert rising up in a fit of anti-human rage and purging the island of any transgressors.

Brown Snakes alone would be the end of them lol. Or the box jellyfish will kill them before they even make landfall. That kills in a few minutes.

[Themerlin]

It has little to do with the Taliban and it being disorganized and more to do with Afghanistan's terrain and how the natives can use it to their advantage. Despite what the soldiers there might be doing, there's more than enough spec ops forces/private military troops there with the means, motives, and moral flexibility to be doing what you couldn't. So that isn't nearly the problem.

Completely agree, the terrain is how they were able to suppress the Russian back in the 80's.

Man those were good times...

A people who were at war, and yet still kind and able to live through those hard times. Too bad the US had to go destabilize the country right after they "won" against the Russians by killing off their old rebel leader who fought during the Russian invansion.

He was a hero.

The taliban came into power right after with the aid from the US government.

[Theinquisition]

It has little to do with the Taliban and it being disorganized and more to do with Afghanistan's terrain and how the natives can use it to their advantage. Despite what the soldiers there might be doing, there's more than enough spec ops forces/private military troops there with the means, motives, and moral flexibility to be doing what you couldn't. So that isn't nearly the problem.

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Nevermind the creatures of the desert rising up in a fit of anti-human rage and purging the island of any transgressors.

The terrain definitely has its own challenges, but nothing we can't overcome. With our airpower we have the mobility to strike anywhere and at any time. The problem lays in what someone mentioned earlier. The Taliban like to hide amongst civilian populace, and generally fight nasty. We have to be careful on where and how we fight, or else we risk losing the moral high ground. This isn't even a war, I don't know what to call it besides a place I don't want to go to again.

Our goals in Afghanistan are ill-defined and frankly unachievable. To build a modern liberal democracy would take generations of cultural change. It's like teaching Cavemen to do Calculus.

In my eyes, and in the eyes of many other U.S. serviceman Afganistan is a monumental waste of time, blood, and money. We would have been just better off chopping the head off the Taliban leadership in 2001 and letting the country go to war with itself for the next uptillion years. Keep drones around to take out the occasional Terrorist training camp, and give weapons to opposing sides in any conflict in the region.

That's just me speaking for the last part though.

[Ginantonicus]

Yep ok it takes you something like 2 years to take over afghanistan and iraq having a lot of corpses called as heros. Try to invade an 1.6 billion population country with unknown technology air force and navy. Its also so funny reading by all the PRO-Americans in this forum that china has no air force or navy or anything.

Actually they do have and their air force and navy might be much bigger than the US army, they just don't go telling their media what they actually have or anything like that...

Your point is as dumb as who is the richest man in the world: Carlos Slim... Why is he the richest? Cause he declares them... Good luck going against the Richest arab which declares nothing in his own country and he has actual gold, stones and oil stacked up with his piles of cash... Go watch CNN boy and read what they'r telling you to read...

You're missing his point. America's military is great at fighting a conventional war. It's total fire-power could turn China into a crater even with out using nukes. The only question is can they get the ordnance there and id say the answer is "yes". They are called "Stealth" bombers for a reason. The trouble with Afghanistan is you are not going to war with Afghanistan you are going to war with the Taliban and can't just blow up the country.

[Tierbook]

Yep ok it takes you something like 2 years to take over afghanistan and iraq having a lot of corpses called as heros. Try to invade an 1.6 billion population country with unknown technology air force and navy. Its also so funny reading by all the PRO-Americans in this forum that china has no air force or navy or anything.

Actually they do have and their air force and navy might be much bigger than the US army, they just don't go telling their media what they actually have or anything like that...

Your point is as dumb as who is the richest man in the world: Carlos Slim... Why is he the richest? Cause he declares them... Good luck going against the Richest arab which declares nothing in his own country and he has actual gold, stones and oil stacked up with his piles of cash... Go watch CNN boy and read what they'r telling you to read...

1: Both Afghanistan and Iraq were defeated within about a month of invasion
2: China's Navy and Airforce is in no way comparable to the the US's in Technology, we kinda beat them with our vastly superior AC's
3. Carlos Slim isn't the richest guy in the world
4: CNN is sorta like twitter on the TV

[tratra]

You're missing his point. America's military is great at fighting a conventional war. It's total fire-power could turn China into a crater even with out using nukes. The only question is can they get the ordnance there and id say the answer is "yes". They are called "Stealth" bombers for a reason. The trouble with Afghanistan is you are not going to war with Afghanistan you are going to war with the Taliban and can't just blow up the country.

You havent even read my post mate, right? Again with the American fire-power... tell me where exactly can you see the Chinese fire-power? ah Nowhere? Why? they dont have any? No THEY DO HAVE, THEY JUST DONT FLEX about it and WONT GET IT OUT IN THE MEDIA!

[Rajadog20]

china wouldn't be able to send it's troops or air force over here, we ahve air and sea superiority
however they have so many people, and afiak good defenses set up...we wouldn't be able to lead much of an incursion without our troops getting wiped out.

who wins is the person playing defensively in that situation...
people making comments about the nukes are right as well.

without nukes...the aggressor would lose.

With modern military technology, infantry warfare, and the number of infantry you have is much less important than it was years ago. Before we would even consider sending infantry in, we would wipe them out with out heavily superior air force, and we would only send the infantry in after we bomb them into oblivion to clean up the left-overs. Air support is no longer a luxury like it was in WWII.

[Åmbulance]

Try to invade an 1.6 billion population country with unknown technology air force and navy.

Just an FYI, China literally has no navy to speak of, and it's air force is some where near the middle of the road.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19710040

China's first aircraft carrier just entered service, and it's an old rehabbed Soviet ship.