1. #1

    Better combat or sub?

    Im returning after 6 months of non playing, all i ask are some advices guys, if you can help, it would be great my armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/it/characte...armakos/simple

    Got Spirit sever 504 with 2 sockets (500 agi+ 160 agi) and dagger of the seven stars 497 as daggers.

    thanks!

  2. #2
    If you have better slow weapons than daggers, play combat; otherwise sub/assassin.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    If you have better slow weapons than daggers, play combat; otherwise sub/assassin.
    and in that case, sub/assa are equals ??

  4. #4
    In your case without AoC cloak and meta I'd say you would probably get more juice out of a mastery built Assassination than sub? Don't hold me to that though someone with more knowledge will have a better answer for you.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Billybumbler View Post
    In your case without AoC cloak and meta I'd say you would probably get more juice out of a mastery built Assassination than sub? Don't hold me to that though someone with more knowledge will have a better answer for you.
    Thank you, i just don't know how to figure out

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Billybumbler View Post
    In your case without AoC cloak and meta I'd say you would probably get more juice out of a mastery built Assassination than sub? Don't hold me to that though someone with more knowledge will have a better answer for you.
    Likely, yes.

    Your best results in your current gear are probably going to come from assassination (agility > mastery > crit ?? haste, see Shadowcraft for stat weights) - if you get a fantastic 2.6 weapon by unfortunate surprise, learn combat; if an absurdly good 1.8 weapon before other gear, consider sub. Other than those weapon drops happening ahead of the rest of your gear, between flexibility, low-er weapon level reliance, and general ease of play I'd strongly recommend assassination.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Likely, yes.

    Your best results in your current gear are probably going to come from assassination (agility > mastery > crit ?? haste, see Shadowcraft for stat weights) - if you get a fantastic 2.6 weapon by unfortunate surprise, learn combat; if an absurdly good 1.8 weapon before other gear, consider sub. Other than those weapon drops happening ahead of the rest of your gear, between flexibility, low-er weapon level reliance, and general ease of play I'd strongly recommend assassination.
    I'm trying to decide the same thing and I think I'm in-between leaning towards one or the other. So far I haven't gotten any Combat weapons(all I have is a single 516) but I did get 2 LFR daggers from SoO. I have the legendary cloak and meta but haven't socketted the meta since my helm is pretty poor(502). I do have the LFR AoC and have been running Flex but haven't gotten anything much better.

    At this point I'm thinking avoid Combat until I get atleast 1 good Combat MH, but I'm uncertain if it'd be worth it to go Sub. I used to like Sub alot in late Cata and do miss it abit but I don't want to gimp myself if it's not viable with my gear. If I get a Combat MH is the LFR version of AoC able to make Combat decent or should I avoid it until I'm Flex geared?

    Here's my armory if you need it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fften/advanced

    I've been away from the game since early MoP and really want to get back into raiding but I want to look decent for a raiding guild. I'm typically pretty high up on the meters in LFR and Flex but any little bit would help. Thanks in advance!

  8. #8
    Well the most important thing to remember like has been said in the other big thread - all 3 of our specs are pretty darn close now.

    Sub may look amazeballs in SC and on paper but if you play Assassination a lot better you will likely do better numbers wise. Also I still find the positional requirement of Sub to be rather annoying (I was struggling alot with Siegecrafter heroic spinning round to throw things) but others get by that limitation with no issues what so ever. I find combat to be very fluid and the most fun to me but again others find it a little too spammy (though the loot gods have showered me with hc warforged daggers and haven't blessed our raid with a single agi 1hander yet).

    Play what you enjoy that will more than likely net you the most. If you really want to go off numbers you should plug yourself into SC and go through Stock Muti/Sub/Combat remembering to optimize gems and reforge each time, if you're just getting back into raiding though you should probably sit with Assassination until you get back into the swing of things - the t16 2 piece certainly assists that spec as well.

  9. #9
    Griff - when your gear is closely aligned (i.e. weapon ilevel is near average ilevel, no 20+ gaps or something), play whatever you play best. If you're coming back from time off, play around, see how you do, but assassination is the easiest (imo) to fall back into. For the meta - use it if you want to do well, it only takes 5 non-legendary pre-cut metas to get another.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Griff - when your gear is closely aligned (i.e. weapon ilevel is near average ilevel, no 20+ gaps or something), play whatever you play best. If you're coming back from time off, play around, see how you do, but assassination is the easiest (imo) to fall back into. For the meta - use it if you want to do well, it only takes 5 non-legendary pre-cut metas to get another.
    Ah, good to know about the meta, I'll definitely socket it then, plus if I socket it now it'll pretty much guarantee that the Tier helm token will drop for me on the next attempt

    It looks like for now I'll stick with Assassination and try out Sub here and there until I can get my hands on some decent Combat weapons. I've played Assassination the most since Wrath with some Combat and Sub thrown in every now and then(mostly in Dragon Soul). In BC I remember being Combat most of the time so it'd be nice to try it out again but I have no real burning desire to play one spec over the other, I just want the best results for my current gear.

  11. #11
    Just sharing my experience - in a 10m raid with already a lot of AoE (another combat rogue, lock, mage, moonkin, spriest in various combination) i just found more useful to spec for full single target uptime, and i'm going subtlety.

    Target switching isn't bad as some are picturing it, the burst is also something to consider. I may fall behind on total damage on certain fights, but if you look at boss damage or adds that need to be burned asap, i'm ahead by a good chunk.

    @Griffon23: as others said, go for Assa focusing on mastery. It's a solid build which grants you good damage especially at low gear levels. If you plan to go combat or sub, i suggest you to avoid them until you get and AoC trinket from SoO; their damage at the moment is much related to the cooldown reduction provided.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Billybumbler View Post
    Well the most important thing to remember like has been said in the other big thread - all 3 of our specs are pretty darn close now.
    Uh, thats not entirely true. Sure with the proper trinkets and set bonuses and SoO gear, they are pretty close. I'm rather skeptical combat is close to assassination if hes talking about 502 and 516 gear and doesn't have AoC.

  13. #13
    Even without the AoC combat holds it's own. With similar ilv weapons assassination/combat when the latest nerf to assassination happened I swapped to combat since I'd been waiting to play it anyways and found it performed better and was more enjoyable. Since getting an AoC though it jumped up a lot. That trinket is amazing.

    Assassination really is boring as hell and when it's numbers got nerfed it gave me no desire to keep playing that spec anymore.

    Sub is fun but seems more of a gimic spec atm than anything else. If you look at raid bots sub is constantly among the lowest ranking specs across the board. Even a fight like iron juggernaut where it should be awesome and have 100% optimal up time on the boss it's right in the middle. Sub seems really useful if you need to burst something down but that's it.

    Personally I think that combat is a more well rounded spec for SoO currently. It's got cleave which most fights have so that brings it up to the top rogue spec for most encounters. Single target it seems to be the strongest as well honestly. The only fight that would put assassination at the top would be Thok because of the huge amounts of down time from the boss but that fight is stupid anyways.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Uh, thats not entirely true. Sure with the proper trinkets and set bonuses and SoO gear, they are pretty close. I'm rather skeptical combat is close to assassination if hes talking about 502 and 516 gear and doesn't have AoC.
    My earlier post said to go assassination

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Just sharing my experience - in a 10m raid with already a lot of AoE (another combat rogue, lock, mage, moonkin, spriest in various combination) i just found more useful to spec for full single target uptime, and i'm going subtlety.

    Target switching isn't bad as some are picturing it, the burst is also something to consider. I may fall behind on total damage on certain fights, but if you look at boss damage or adds that need to be burned asap, i'm ahead by a good chunk.

    @Griffon23: as others said, go for Assa focusing on mastery. It's a solid build which grants you good damage especially at low gear levels. If you plan to go combat or sub, i suggest you to avoid them until you get and AoC trinket from SoO; their damage at the moment is much related to the cooldown reduction provided.
    this. I'm in a 10m group with a bunch of good AoE/cleavers and I'm sub as well. Single target/burst damage is pretty nuts as long as it isn't like, 99% movement. Stupid behind the boss requirements grumble

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrysa View Post
    this. I'm in a 10m group with a bunch of good AoE/cleavers and I'm sub as well. Single target/burst damage is pretty nuts as long as it isn't like, 99% movement. Stupid behind the boss requirements grumble
    I wouldn't be so quick to say go sub just because you need single target. If you look at something like Iron Jugg, you will see that combat can do roughly the same if not more single target than sub plus you always have the option to turn on BF if needed.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I wouldn't be so quick to say go sub just because you need single target. If you look at something like Iron Jugg, you will see that combat can do roughly the same if not more single target than sub plus you always have the option to turn on BF if needed.
    According to raid bots combat is the highest dps on iron juggernaut. Sub is decent but really out of any fight where sub should shine it's iron juggernaut and it's kinda sad that it doesn't beat the other specs here. Pretty much every other fight sub is at the bottom of all the specs of all the classes though.

    Any time you have to burst something down really fast sub is probably one of the best specs in the game for that and if you're one of those lucky bastards with a heroic warforged AoC then you have a 30 second shadow dance which is pretty nuts and gives you the ability to have that burst up pretty much whenever you need it.

    Combat is just so much better all around this tier than any of the other spec that if there's a spec you want to commit to personally I'd say combat would be it. Assassination is competitive as well still and if you can only get daggers then assassination is probably the way to go. But so many fights have cleave which pulls combat a head and there really aren't that many that have a crap ton of adds where assassinations FoK spam comes out ahead.

    Really with proper game play you should be able to play any spec you want to though but if all you want to play is sub then on fights like galakras and spoils you're going to be really really really bad.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    a heroic warforged AoC then you have a 30 second shadow dance
    Just going to point out that a heroic warforged AoC only gives you a 40 sec cd shadow dance. It is cooldown recovery increase rather than cooldown reduction.

    On the topic at hand, all rogue specs are very close now in terms of damage. I would just play whatever spec you prefer/what spec you have the best gear for if you want to optimise.
    Last edited by Mipster; 2013-10-26 at 01:09 PM.

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