1. #1

    Resto Druid AoE healing help (Heroic Iron Juggernaut)

    /e it's 10 man btw, thanks for pointing out that I forgot to mention that.

    Heya guys, so on iron juggernaut heroic during the p2 we're doing a cheese tactic where we all get knocked to the back, spread 6 yards (staying within efflorescence) and then simply stand still and heal through the seismic activity but we just keep dropping. Now i've gone through our logs and I know our healers are just failing miserably (there was a 24 second period where a person didn't receive a single targeted heal and therefore died) but before I bring up what there doing wrong I need some information to tell them what the right way to do it would be, which is where u guys come in .

    So during a standstill aoe healing phase with a large hit coming every 15 seconds (so people need to be topped of) what type of rotation would you go through? Some friends have said to simply use wild growth when ever possible, spread rejuvs to 8 - 10 > genesis > bloom > place shroom and then repeat blooming again before the next big hit, and popping tree of life for spam regrowoth if things get messy. Would this be the way to go or is there a better way to handle it?

    /e incase you wanted this additional information
    Heres his healing logs for a 16 second period where we had 2 deaths during seismic activity -
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0/?s=674&e=691 (his healing done)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...6/?s=674&e=691 (Healing received for one who died)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...4/?s=674&e=691 (Healing received for the other who died)

    Heres another attempt, this time a 35 second peroid for another one of our deaths during seismic activity -
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1920&e=1949 (his healing done)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1920&e=1949 (Healing received for one who died)

    As you can see, they just don't seem to be doing well... Anything.

    /e

    Cooldown Rotation - Atm we're popping a aura and Rallying cry on the first shock pulse with healing tide thrown down when we re-position to heal with raiding healing. For the second shock pulse We get another aura along with my Demo Banner and for the final pulse we get a Smokebomb and Barrier (as it's 10 man it's very easy to fit everyone within these aoes before pulse hits). Naturally we have the prot pala, monk, ele sham and SP off-healing at the same time.

    Mechanic wise we are fine, this is strictly an issue with our healers giving sub-par performance and I need some information on how people do do it so that when I bring it up with them I can use that.
    Last edited by Fitsu; 2013-10-21 at 02:34 PM.

  2. #2
    We are healing with 2 resto-druids and a disc, and reju+wg+bloom+instants (2pc & ns/ht) was enough to prevent deaths (druid-wise).

    1st kill http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=8918&e=9366
    2nd kill http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=7875&e=8337
    Feel the fast heartbeats on your chest so even the deaf man can dance.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Littlepinch's Avatar
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    Talking

    On my druid for that fight i use Mushroom + Treants + Wild Growth for extra aoe heals for people to stand in ( 4 efflorescence's ).

    Then I would cover some people with rejuvs and genesis if they drop low, next time they drop low i pop my mushroom and replace it.

    Swiftmend is great for topping a single person off ( Also keep our mastery up for harder ticks )

    Using iron bark if you know someone is going to take a big hit

    Hope this helps Cheers

    p.s don't forget during that phase to have your healers stagger their CD's so they don't use them all at the same time. The druid should be able to fit in 2-3 tranqs during the fight as well.
    Last edited by Littlepinch; 2013-10-21 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #4
    I guess you mean 10 man? (because of the efflorescence remark)

    Generally you should use defensive raid CDs for every knock-back and raid healing CDs for the time in between. While there's probably not enough CDs for everything, you should be able to spread them out so that there's always something. The strongest CDs should be used towards the end, e.g. Tranquility (can be used on the move), Divine Hymn, Healing Tide etc. Blooming shrooms can also be used once if most of the raid is standing inside (only once because the don't charge up in that phase).

    For the resto druid specifically, he should keep up rejuv on everyone throughout the whole phase, use WG on CD, and swiftmend / regrowth for emergency. Genesis should only be used as a last resort (before people die), as it does not increase the healing output and costs mana and a GCD.
    For this fight, I prefer SotF over tree, as the wild growths are really strong.

  5. #5
    I take it this is 25 and not 10 man. There is nothing special about this fight all your healers need to make sure is that the raid is topped before the burst, it simply sounds like you have healers who aren't coordinating what they are healing and your cool down rotation is either no in place or not robust enough.

    If it's 25 man then you may find it easier to seven heal your first kill(s), what are your hybrids doing during this phase, hopefully they are also healing.

    It simply breaks down to making sure that the raid is topped before that burst hits so it may be a case of using CDs before each pulse.

    What is your raid comp and what is your cd rotation?

    IMO your Druids shouldn't be using tree they should be using sotf, there is little point in using genesis as you may as well let the hots just tick and naturally reapply them, if you genesis them and immediately start reapplying them they are going to drop before the next pulse, that said if you have a number of people at critical hp with a rejuv with 4 ticks left on it genesis may not be a bad call.

    Personally I would make sure that raid CDs are watertight before looking at individuals you would have thought if you are raiding heroics then your healers should have an idea of what is going on.

    Edit

    I nought it was 25 by the 8-10 rejuv comment rather than just saying rolling rejuvs on the entire raid.
    Last edited by Migraine; 2013-10-21 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #6
    When our guild killed it, I had to heal instead of dps and I would recommend a healing and damage mitigation cd rotation for the shock pulses. For you specifically if you are running NV make sure you have it ready to go for that phase.

    If you are a 10 man and have hybrids, make sure they are also healing as much as possible. And also personal cd's for everyone during that phase. Tanks should be getting all of the mines.

    If 25 man, you should all be spread out more than 6 yards due to the tar. It is very important to have people topped off before the shock pulse as it hits very hard. On our kill I had to run DoC because we were a bit behind on enrage.

  7. #7
    Ah, sorry for not pointing that out yes it's 10 man. We are rolling defensive cooldowns and what not, fight mechanic wise we are going above and beyond what is needed to attempt to survive these blasts it just seems like when you look at those logs people aren't actually receiving any healing at all. I mean as u saw over a 16 second period in which 2 people died there wasn't a single rejuv or any heal applied to them at all, I mean can anyone think of a single reason that could happen?

    Atm we're popping a aura and Rallying cry on the first shock pulse with healing tide thrown down when we re-position to heal with raiding healing. For the second shock pulse We get another aura along with my Demo Banner and for the final pulse we get a Smokebomb and Barrier (as it's 10 man it's very easy to fit everyone within these aoes before pulse hits). Those arn't the issue as i've said it's simply that our healers clearly arn't doing there job, you would think that the fact we're 6 heroics would mean our healers are capable but a lot of our kills have been based on players very high ability to avoid taking extra damage, use of personals and the tanks putting out heals.

  8. #8
    Halion was at full hp 3 seconds before he died
    Shreddz was at full hp 1.5 seconds before he died

    They both take damage greater than their maximum health in a 1.2 second window (Shredzz takes two cannons and the pulse, Halion a cannon, a seismic and a pulse), while you may have an issue with your healers you need an element of rng to land that heal in that 1.2 second window which is going to be sufficient for them to survive.

    With the range you are stacking at does the banner reach the boss? Are you not running the risk with stacking so tight to take multiple cannon hits such as Shreddz death?

    10 man is not my forte but 40 regrowths in a four minute attempt seems crazy high.
    Last edited by Migraine; 2013-10-21 at 02:39 PM.

  9. #9
    This could be a possible issue, also on that attempt there was a bit of a mess up and aura wasn't used. But the reason they were topped is because they healed themselves and healing tide was up the actual healing received from other healers is non-existent. I guess the second death i've now added on Oblat makes it a bit more noticeable where he doesn't receive damage from anything but seismic activity and shock pulse and yet he died and his highest healing received was from the elemental shaman, brewmaster monk and his own spirit mend.

  10. #10
    Don't get me wrong I am not saying you don't have an issue with healers it's just more a case of working around it.

    For the druid I would have him talent soul of the forest and I would assign him as follows.

    Roll rejuv on the raid, use downtime to swiftmend the lowest target with a rejuv on and follow that with a soul of the forest hastened wild growth, this is all he is going to have globals to do in this phase and infact that would even let his lifebloom drop so you could perhaps change that to swapping out 1 person with a rejuv to maintaining his lifebloom stack on someone. You need to get your healers into a habit of doing what there roll excels at and doing that right, while putting the druid into this rotation may mean that he can no longer have time to clutch heal the steady stream of hp is going to give the other healers breathing time. Make him use Natures vigil at your weakest point during this time but bear in mind the length of its cd if timed properly can be up for nearly three pulses.

    When targets don't get healed it could just mean that your healers are getting overwhelmed and forgetting their basic roll of triage prioritise the most wounded that will die if not healed. Shove hots onto your raid frames and call out your druid if you don't see them rolling. Rejuv has gone back to the old days in terms of strength we just have other tools that are also worth using these days.

  11. #11

    Angry

    I healed that on heroic last week... Here is what I can see from your druid:

    1) I don't understand why is your druid not tranquin' during the transitions... Is he saving for the second one? He shouldn't, tranq will be up for every transition... Just do it right after a shockwave, it will help a fuck ton.

    2) Also, he shouldn't be poping incarnation and spamming regrowth. He should pop inc and keep spaming rejuvs with an eventual regrowth here and there, but you can see in his logs: whenever he pop'd inc he had no rejuv rolling which is just about the opposite what you want to do during that phase. Keep rejuv on everyone is his priority during transition.

    3) Why isn't he using Natures Vigil!? Its an op cd, you can pop it early b4 transition and then have it up for the transition. Splash & smart heals does amazing thing for you on that phase.

    4) Use iron bark! He isn't using it enough and its a major personal cd if anything. He can barkskin the first, ironbark 2nd etc...

    5) And use Swiftmend more! Seen him using that like only 5 times in a 3 min attempt, just cuz we don't get efflow out of it anymore it doenst mean it isn't an amazing heal.
    Last edited by land; 2013-10-21 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #12
    this is my last weeks log resto PoV http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fr...8#Rundergehakt

    what I do: just before the first knockback I pop HOTW and tranq as soon as I landed, our resto shaman used tide just before the 2nd shock, then I activate treeform and the shaman Spiritlinks. Rinse and repeat (just without the hotw ofc). 559 ilvl tier 16 4set

  13. #13
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=9933#Oceanz. That's our logs from this week we two healed it with disc preist and me (druid). I'd highly recommend 3healing. I shroomed on the knock back while tree is up. Then 8seconds before second knock back I tranq. Third one we smoke bombed and yolo'd it up

  14. #14
    High Overlord EleShamLAZERBEAMZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitsu View Post
    /e it's 10 man btw, thanks for pointing out that I forgot to mention that.

    Heya guys, so on iron juggernaut heroic during the p2 we're doing a cheese tactic where we all get knocked to the back, spread 6 yards (staying within efflorescence) and then simply stand still and heal through the seismic activity but we just keep dropping. Now i've gone through our logs and I know our healers are just failing miserably (there was a 24 second period where a person didn't receive a single targeted heal and therefore died) but before I bring up what there doing wrong I need some information to tell them what the right way to do it would be, which is where u guys come in

    So during a standstill aoe healing phase with a large hit coming every 15 seconds (so people need to be topped of) what type of rotation would you go through? Some friends have said to simply use wild growth when ever possible, spread rejuvs to 8 - 10 > genesis > bloom > place shroom and then repeat blooming again before the next big hit, and popping tree of life for spam regrowoth if things get messy. Would this be the way to go or is there a better way to handle it?

    /e incase you wanted this additional information
    Heres his healing logs for a 16 second period where we had 2 deaths during seismic activity -
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0/?s=674&e=691 (his healing done)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...6/?s=674&e=691 (Healing received for one who died)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...4/?s=674&e=691 (Healing received for the other who died)

    Heres another attempt, this time a 35 second peroid for another one of our deaths during seismic activity -
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1920&e=1949 (his healing done)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1920&e=1949 (Healing received for one who died)

    As you can see, they just don't seem to be doing well... Anything.

    /e

    Cooldown Rotation - Atm we're popping a aura and Rallying cry on the first shock pulse with healing tide thrown down when we re-position to heal with raiding healing. For the second shock pulse We get another aura along with my Demo Banner and for the final pulse we get a Smokebomb and Barrier (as it's 10 man it's very easy to fit everyone within these aoes before pulse hits). Naturally we have the prot pala, monk, ele sham and SP off-healing at the same time.

    Mechanic wise we are fine, this is strictly an issue with our healers giving sub-par performance and I need some information on how people do do it so that when I bring it up with them I can use that.

    Did i not see a tranq in there for the rotation of cds?

  15. #15
    Considering you have a shaman in the group Symbiosis could be use to get Spiritwalker's Grace, meaning that you can actually use the the tranq while getting knocked back (provided the pulse just knocks back and doesn't have an active interrupting component).

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyandor View Post
    Considering you have a shaman in the group Symbiosis could be use to get Spiritwalker's Grace, meaning that you can actually use the the tranq while getting knocked back (provided the pulse just knocks back and doesn't have an active interrupting component).
    To make life a bit easier, create a macro for Tranquility with a /cast Spiritwalker's Grace line before it. If you have Symbiosis on a shaman, the macro will use SW:G without you having to remember it. If you have Symbiosis on someone else, the macro only casts Tranquility as usual.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    To make life a bit easier, create a macro for Tranquility with a /cast Spiritwalker's Grace line before it. If you have Symbiosis on a shaman, the macro will use SW:G without you having to remember it. If you have Symbiosis on someone else, the macro only casts Tranquility as usual.
    Unless I was bugged when I tried, this doesn't work. The explosion stopped the cast and I got 1 tick out.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekkiem View Post
    Unless I was bugged when I tried, this doesn't work. The explosion stopped the cast and I got 1 tick out.
    Yes and no;

    I have experienced tranq just "breaking" on this specific fight if you start channeling before the explosion. I have also experienced that tranq was NOT interrupted by the explosion, but thats a too big IF, when my tranq makes up the sole raid cooldown we use after explosion number X.

    Because of the lacking consistency here, I've gone with the safer option, which is to simply never risk it. However, if you see several raid members dangerously low, you would perhaps want to run the risk; given that they will die to explosion unless you do tranq.
    ^ I agree with this.

  19. #19
    I like SotF for this fight: a SotF WG with t16 4-set is very fast healing, or a SotF tranq is about a 3-second channel for massive raid healing.

    Druid has good options here. If you're having any trouble at all with healing, the group should peel off the boss and stack at 40y prior to the first slam. This will be out of range of borer lines, so you can stack up and get efflo going here. After the knockback, you have a few options for rapid healing:
    - WM:Bloom, followed by replacing mushroom
    - tranq (with SotF you can complete a channel in 3 seconds)
    - WG (with 4t16 is even better)
    - spam rejuv everywhere
    - this is ideally where ironbark and barkskin should be used. Also your raid should rotate cooldowns like Rallying Cry, Devo, AMZ, smoke bomb, and personals (incl. healthstone); if healing is your main issue you might also institute the use of healing pots instead of second dps pots.

    If you are 3-healing, I would go with SotF; SotF WG is amazing. If you are 2 healing, you will only be getting 1 seismic phase, so I would guess Incarnation will perform best in that hardest healing condition of the fight.

  20. #20
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekkiem View Post
    Unless I was bugged when I tried, this doesn't work. The explosion stopped the cast and I got 1 tick out.
    Silly question, but I assume you checked that the macro order was correct? The SWG line has to be before the Tranq line.
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