Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    301

    Desperate plea for resto shaman help

    Hi guys,

    I'm the raid and guild leader of a semi-hardcore raiding guild who started a few weeks ago. We're currently 10/14 normal, but our progression hit a wall on Thok and Siege because people kept dying. Yesterday our holy paladin didn't show up, so we ended up 2 man healing bosses with a disc priest(~540 ilvl) and a restoration shaman. Now, this went absolutely awful, and the priest says that the Shaman is slacking horribly. I did notice he just runs into Ashen Walls on Dark Shamans, stuff like that, but I'm not an expert on healing.

    Yesterday's logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-y9a1i5y6uz1k14nn/
    Shaman's armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hbind/advanced

    What we did notice is that he has lots of spirit(Like 19k yesterday) and apparently uses a spirit flask on top of it and still goes OOM.

    Can anybody please dig into these logs and figure out what it is he is doing wrong(Lots of things, I fear)

    Thanks a lot in advance.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU-Garrosh
    Posts
    2,801
    The first thing that I notice in the logs is that he's been wearing that stupid spirit trinket from ToT that is an absolute waste of a trinket slot. Make him throw it away. Anything is better than that one. Even a Darkmoon card would be better. If he has nothing to complement his PPoP-Sha trinket, he should get the trinket from Shado-Pan Assault.

    It seems like he might be using Chain Heal a bit much. It's his top heal. And spamming it is a fairly costly thing. It might be wise to make him aware of this. In many cases, a UE-buffed Healing Rain will work just the same. Instruct your raid to stand in a well-positioned Healing Rain whenever the encounter mechanics allow people to do that. It helps a shaman tremendously when the raid is cooperative; more so than any other healer does a shaman's output depend on the behaviour of the raid that he's healing.

    Unfortunately he's logged out as elemental, but he seems to be wearing a lot of his resto gear anyway.

    It's not 'wrong' to have a lot of spirit. With really good gear, you get a lot of it, and if your sweet spot is a big higher than is usually seen, that's fine (I notice I'm feeling rather comfortable with around 18k, so much so that I have finally opted to run with int-flasks most of the time). His perceived low output doesn't stem from too much spirit. Actually, while his gear may not be absolutely optimally gemmed and reforged to meet a certain haste threshold or something, it's not a gear problem you're facing. You don't just switch out 3 gems and fix up 2 reforges and go "Eureka! NOW my healing is awesome!" In essence, there's nothing in his gear that is so fundamentally wrong that it would keep him from healing properly.

    It doesn't even seem to be an hps problem really. I mean I only looked at overall healing done/hps from the boss fights, including wipes. And your shamy isn't significantly behind the priest. Add to that that some encounters don't really favour people huddling inside Healing Rain, he doesn't seem to be worse a healer than your disc priest is. But if you think that there should be more healing, perhaps have a look over his interface and his raid frames. Perhaps he could configure them better.

    You mention he's standing in crap (ashen walls). Again, it might be an interface issue, coupled with awareness problems. And those can be taken care of by cleaner interfaces. Or maybe your tanks should position the shamans better to not have the ashen walls where they shouldn't be in the first place ^^

    But these are only my first impressions from a very superficial glance over the logs.

    If he's having mana problems, he ought to use Glyph of Totemic Recall. That makes his Healing Stream Totems practically free as you recall the totem shortly before it expires and get refunded all the mana you spent on it (some 14k). That heal-on-dispel glyph is garbage. Glyph of Riptide is debatable. It may be situationally useful. Very situationally - or it may lead to OOMing yourself if you step into the I-can-spam-it-like-a-druid trap. Glyph of Chaining is highly useful for some encounters. Glyph of Healing Stream Totem is useful for encounters where people get frost, fire or nature dmg because it reduces their dmg taken from those sources after it ticked on them. It doesn't show up on the meters though; still, it's useful. You should find yourself re-evaluating your glyphs for every encounter. Sometimes switching a glyph or two can make a lot of a difference in regards to how well you perform on a given encounter.

    Someone who's better than me at deep-analyzing WoL logs should take over now, I guess
    Last edited by Seriss; 2013-10-24 at 02:44 PM.

  3. #3
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    301
    The tanks are dropping the Ashen walls just fine generally, there was one time when the Shaman ran into it, died, then ankhed up inside them, and died again. That is definitely an awareness issue, but I'm not sure how to help him improve it.

    When I looked at Iron Juggernaut there seemed to be quite a gap between the Priest and the Shaman, and the Priest told me he feels like he is carrying the Shaman. But once again, I am terrible with healers and WoL, I only know what I perceive.

  4. #4
    Hey,

    Looking at the Protectors fight his Earth Shield uptime was 15% that is terrible, should be close to 100% as possible especially as he has the 2 set bonus. He only used Unleashed Life 4 times in a 5:37mins fight, that is also very low. This means he was casting HR without UL, which is a massive no no. Missing out on 30% buffed Healing Rain by not doing it.

    On Norushen, again his ES was 28.2% and his Riptide was lower than it should be for that fight, again going for close to 100% uptime. The glyph of Riptide is a HSP loss and imo only good for Malkorok and Thok. Again only 3 UL uses, which means more casting of HR without the 30% buff. He should be using Primal Elementalist Talent imo.

    Sha of Pride: looks like he applied ES once at the start of the fight and ignored it after that, riptide uptime is low even for having the glyph. Used unleashed life once... No potting thus far. Tell him to bin that Horrible Spirit trinket from t15 it's utter pap for resto shamans.

    Galakras: Much better Riptide uptime and his ES uptime was at 80%. I'm assuming he isn't in the tower group so it can be better. He used UL 13 times during the fight, but he is talented into UF so i'll assume he never used them on HR? Used Ascendance once instead of 3 times during the fight. Still no potting.

    Iron Juggernaut: ES uptime at 45%.. There is a lot of opportunities on this fight to fit at least 3 ppl in a healing rain especially in phase 2. This is where UL + HR would be really stong.

    Dark Shamans: Riptide uptime low, ES uptime stupidly low, again a well placed UL+HR can really help your tanks and melee or even your ranged.

    If your shaman is going OOM during SoO fights it could be because his is spamming Riptide, chain heal and Healing Surge, these spells will drain your mana. I suggest getting him to try the glyph of chaining and the glyph of healing stream..and to use the talent Primal Elementalist for the empower or reinforce abilities. UF is wasted imo because he is healing with a disco.

    His gemming is a tad wonky he needs to be gemming for at least int, so +80 int + 180 spirit in blues, +80 int + 180 crit in yellows or reds. Or if he wants the extra throughput pure int gems in red. He needs to enchant his bracers with the intellect enchant not the mastery. Put superior intellect on his cloak instead of crit.

    Hopefully someone with more indepth knowledge of WoL could help with the finer details.
    Last edited by MaugrimEU; 2013-10-24 at 03:16 PM.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  5. #5
    Iron juggernaut is a rough fight to heal as a shaman. Rushing streams and glyph of chaining paired with smart positioning can be game changing on that fight.

    He has very low uptime on earth shield. That should be near to 100% uptime. Very little use of healing rain which right now is even useful to just drop on the tanks/melee. 18-19k spirit is insanely high IMO. With the LMG most people are running around 10-13k. I run 12k and micro manage my LMG procs with totemic recall glyphed and have no mana problems whatsoever. I also use intellect flasks and food. With him logged out in ele it is hard to judge his gear setup but glyphs could be better. HST glyph is great on a lot of fights and SWG can be good on some situations as well.

    From just briefly looking at logs it looks like he is dying to lack of awareness mostly though.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    The tanks are dropping the Ashen walls just fine generally, there was one time when the Shaman ran into it, died, then ankhed up inside them, and died again. That is definitely an awareness issue, but I'm not sure how to help him improve it.

    When I looked at Iron Juggernaut there seemed to be quite a gap between the Priest and the Shaman, and the Priest told me he feels like he is carrying the Shaman. But once again, I am terrible with healers and WoL, I only know what I perceive.
    Didn't want to add it to my wall of txt so i'll say it here. If he used glyph of chaining on fights like Iron Juggernaut and Dark Shamans I bet you'll see an increase in healing and less ooming. It could be his unglyphed chain heal isn't hitting the maximum amount of targets and he is having to cast it again and again. Or spam Healing Surge to reach further away players.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  7. #7
    • He's not using the Legendary Gem. Have him fix this. It is so much better than what he's using.
    • Not using proper Cloak/Wrist enchants, should be Int on both.
    • Doesn't seem to be reforge for any particular haste breakpoint. Could drop a bit over 1k haste and still get the extra tick from HST.
    • I'm going to assume he is not actually trying to use the Ele cloak and is using the Resto cloak instead.
    • Should be using Int Flask/Food.
    • Unleashed Fury talent is garbage (it doesn't affect Healing Rain), have him try out Primal Elementalist. 40% uptime on 10% extra healing.
    • Glyph of Riptide is garbage in general, I only use it on Thok.
    • Glyph of Cleansing Waters is useless on most fights - hopefully he's not using it all the time... Even on fights where you dispel it is barely worth using.
    • Riptide uptime is low, especially for using the glyphed version.
    • He needs to get better at keeping Earth Shield up. You should be seeing 95% uptime - especially with the 2-piece!
    • Have him try out Glyph of Chaining, benefits are 2-fold. First it doesn't let you spam Chain Heal and drain your mana, second it helps your Chain Heal reach everyone on more spread out fights, which is most of them.
    • Just one single Greater Healing Wave cast in all of your kills combined...? What? No wonder he's using so many Healing Surges and Healing Waves.
    • Ensure he's using Unleash Elements before each Healing Rain. It is worth it.


    Have him get Glyph of Totemic Recall, create a macro like follows:
    /cancelaura Lucidity
    /cast Totemic Recall

    (The reason you cancel Lucidity is because if the LMG procs right before you recall it eats the mana gain from recalling.)

    Have him get good at tracking his totems (I recommend WeakAuras), and recalling totems before they expire. During his meta gem procs (and he really really really needs to get the LMG) have him just drop totems. Go nuts. If you have HST off cooldown definitely drop that first, then drop Magma Totem. Magma Totem costs a TON of mana. Also (with Glyph of Totemic Recall) it gives you a TON of mana when you recall it. And if you drop it during the LMG proc - it's free. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. If you spend 1 GCD on Magma Totem each meta gem proc, that's a free like 14k mana as long as you use Recall in the next minute - And as you can recall every HST as it hits ~1 second left you will be recalling often. You can gain a lot of mana this way. Totemic Recall gave me half of my mana pool back over the course of our Nazgrim kill last night.

  8. #8
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    301
    He is not actually using the Legendary Meta... Bloody hell.. We have attemped to teach him some of the stuff you guys have been discussing(Which is amazing, thanks a lot!) but he doesn't seem to be very... eager to learn. Is he beyond saving? I mean, from your replies I gather that he is literally doing almost everything wrong that he can possibly do wrong in the first place.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    He is not actually using the Legendary Meta... Bloody hell.. We have attemped to teach him some of the stuff you guys have been discussing(Which is amazing, thanks a lot!) but he doesn't seem to be very... eager to learn. Is he beyond saving? I mean, from your replies I gather that he is literally doing almost everything wrong that he can possibly do wrong in the first place.
    Without sounding like a dick, is he a fotm re-roller?, there has been quite a few since resto got buffed, thus alot of bad resto's are appearing :s

    If he is generally new to the game, then I take back what i said and maybe he just needs a point in the right direction. I'm always willing to help someone, but If he is reluctant to take advice due to whatever reason then he is a lost cause.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  10. #10
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavemoss View Post
    Without sounding like a dick, is he a fotm re-roller?, there has been quite a few since resto got buffed, thus alot of bad resto's are appearing :s

    If he is generally new to the game, then I take back what i said and maybe he just needs a point in the right direction. I'm always willing to help someone, but If he is reluctant to take advice due to whatever reason then he is a lost cause.
    I can summarise him easily. He plays on multiple PCs, sometimes at the same time. He has 21 90s, tries to gear all of them up. Thinks he's OP in everything he does(110k DPS as 555 ILVL, SO OP). Kicks on mounts, gold transmogs. He also knows everything better than we do, I asked him about his LMG and he says it's worse than his normal meta(Yes, really).

    Really, we only have him because we were used to 3 healing it, and it went fine. However we can't 2 man heal it like this. If everything that you mentioned is true then he is out.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    I can summarise him easily. He plays on multiple PCs, sometimes at the same time. He has 21 90s, tries to gear all of them up. Thinks he's OP in everything he does(110k DPS as 555 ILVL, SO OP). Kicks on mounts, gold transmogs. He also knows everything better than we do, I asked him about his LMG and he says it's worse than his normal meta(Yes, really).

    Really, we only have him because we were used to 3 healing it, and it went fine. However we can't 2 man heal it like this. If everything that you mentioned is true then he is out.
    If what you said is true, I would replace him asap. You can 2 heal SoO with good healers, even have one of your dps have a decent os healing would cover the 3rd healer if needed.

    If he plays 21 lvl 90s how the hell does he expect to master one? lol
    Last edited by MaugrimEU; 2013-10-24 at 04:58 PM.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  12. #12
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavemoss View Post
    If what you said is true, I would replace him asap. You can 2 heal SoO with good healers, even have one of your dps have a decent os healing would cover the 3rd healer if needed.
    We have a shaman who casts HT(I think?) on cooldown to help the healers. And yes, it's true. I'm afraid that I actually am being relatively mild and nice..

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    We have a shaman who casts HT(I think?) on cooldown to help the healers. And yes, it's true. I'm afraid that I actually am being relatively mild and nice..
    Maybe get your other shaman to gather a resto offspec? Either way you need to replace your current resto if that is his outlook towards his guild and raid team.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    He also knows everything better than we do, I asked him about his LMG and he says it's worse than his normal meta(Yes, really).
    It's definitely not. Either have him educate himself on what the meta he is using actually does (it's 3% extra critical effect aka your heals crit for 203% healing instead of 200% healing, a measly 1.5% increase to heals that both crit and don't overheal at all) or have him do the research. The LMG can give you mana back equaling thousands of spirit so you can drop your spirit lower and get more throughput stats. I'm running at 12k right now with the LMG and I am considering dropping another 1k or so Spirit since I end most fights with a lot of mana still.
    Last edited by delk; 2013-10-24 at 05:13 PM. Reason: grammar

  15. #15
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sanborn, MN
    Posts
    1,652
    Hmm, now granted I only only heal Flex every now and then, but I usually do great at healing on par with other resto shammy what are in resto gear, but with my Ele gear and 5.5K spirit, I dont run out of mana and do decently well just doing Healing rain on CD, and dropping totems on CD along with some chain heals.

  16. #16
    I see he logged out in Resto Spec

    Send him this: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/7...5-31a6686e6073 and have him press Optimize. I already set the weights and caps and all that. Tell him if he has either Horridon's Last Gasp or the Shado-Pan Assault healing trinket to use that instead of the terrible awful bad I-can't-believe-he-spent-valor-upgrading Stolen Relic of Zuldazar and drop the Spirit cap I set on there by 1-2k.

    Remind him to reconsider his Glyphs also. (Chaining + HST + Totemic Recall is what I run on most fights. For Thok I drop HST and pick up Riptide.)
    Last edited by delk; 2013-10-24 at 05:46 PM.

  17. #17
    What's up with everyone calling Chain Heal expensive and running OOM when spamming it? I can spam cast it just fine on ~10k spirit. It's only 44.2% more expensive than casting HW while TW is up. Since you actually gain mana while casting HW, I just can't see how you could possibly run yourself dry with Chain Heal.

  18. #18
    Shaman healing specially in 10m is all about preference, it really boils down to what you like when it comes to glyphs/talents/stats. There is no right or wrong as long as the raid survives and you guys down bosses.

    Though there are some common things like ES having a near 100% uptime specially with the 2 set. Mastery is the weakest stat etc. etc.
    Last edited by Aviators; 2013-10-24 at 06:24 PM.

  19. #19
    Sounds to me like this guy simply needs to be replaced, end of story. He's not helping your raid any and seems very unwilling to do anything different.

  20. #20
    No reason to get into glyphs talents gear. Although he is retarded to not use the meta gem.

    Couple glaring mistakes.

    1) Ascendance. He just flat out isn't fucking using it and its a nice cooldown. 2 uses in Thok could have netted him at least 5 million in healing.
    2) His HR uptime is terrible. I know its a 10 man raid, but on thok he is getting about half of what he should. I ran expression editor for it on your fallen protectors kill and there are periods where he doesn't cast it for a full minute. If it hits 2 or 3 targets, its freaking worth having on the ground.
    3) He just isn't "doing much". Its the same thing that is probably the problem he has with his 100k dps on the 553 geared character.

    Ultimately, this post is probably a waste of time. This guy isn't going to get better. He doesn't have the right attitude to change in the first place. Ya'll are making good progression, go get someone who is ok and open to instruction and come back here and post there logs and we'll turn 'em into a champ.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, 18k spirit is absolutely ridiculous. Spirit flask hasn't been used since we were in blue gear.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •