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  1. #61
    Mechagnome
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    AMR does exactly what you tell it to do and for dps there is in most cases just one way to gear so AMR does a pretty good job of it. However if you play a healer it's a pain balancing spirit and int/2ndary stats you basicly end up spending 30 min putting in random values pressing optimize and looking at the stats it gave you and repeat.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    What? Good luck getting simcraft to reforge your gear... sure, you can get it to tell you that X stat is better than Y, that's as far as it's getting you. Simcraft is a great tool, but it's an entirely different tool.

    There are other reforging tools, but none that I've seen that also take into account cloak and glove hit/expertise enchants in the reforging equation. In my opinion, AMR is a fantastic tool for anyone from the casual player to the heroic progression raider, assuming you have a solid grasp of the mechanics of the game and how optimal reforging actually works. I never actually bother to use the gear adviser in AMR, because what is and isn't an upgrade is not difficult to determine. I use it solely for reforging. But the gear adviser will work just fine for most people.

    And if you think you're getting anywhere close to optimal reforging manually, or saving time doing that......... well, I give up.
    You can edit the reforges yourself. I do it all the time.

    And I feel sorry for you not being able to reforge optimally. For me, it's simple. I use as many exp/crit gems as possible while reforging as much hit away as possible to maximize the amount of secondary stats.

    After that, I make sure I have crit on every gear piece, no exceptions, then I reforge as much of the mastery/excess hit to haste as possible, if the piece already has crit. I do use ReforgeLite for reforging though, but that's only to save time as you say. I know exactly what piece to reforge and what piece not to reforge regardless. And on some fights, well then I just change haste to mastery to get better Combustions.

    If I were to remove all reforges from my gear and do them myself manually, I would get the exact same result that I get from an optimal solution from ReforgeLite, AMR, Simcraft, whatever.

    Extremely simple math, it's only addition and subtraction. Sure, I have a lot more education in math than that, I am actually quite good at these things, but it doesn't really matter.

    If you think people with elementary school math education can't figure this out for themselves.... well I give up.
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  3. #63
    Except it very likely wouldn't be optimal. Sometimes stats can be swapped around in unusual ways to come closer to caps while still providing you with the maximum of your most important secondary stat.

    Reforging is absolutely not as simple as addition and subtraction. At it's absolute, most basic form, yes - those are the only arithmetic operations that are done. That doesn't mean that's all there is to it. When you add caps in, particularly two caps, it becomes more complex. Then when you add in haste breakpoints, odd items like RoRo, etc. it becomes even more complex. There's simply zero reason to take longer doing it suboptimally manually when a calculator can do it in 10 seconds.

    I could see it being slightly simpler for a mage, but there is simply no way you're getting optimal reforges done on a hunter in any comparable amount of time to the reforge calculator of your choice.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post

    Extremely simple math, it's only addition and subtraction. Sure, I have a lot more education in math than that, I am actually quite good at these things, but it doesn't really matter.

    If you think people with elementary school math education can't figure this out for themselves.... well I give up.
    There are more combinations of reforges and gems than you could do in your lifetime. Sure you can do some heurestics and you might get a pretty good combination and in really simple cases you can get the optimal. However, there are non obvious ways of getting very close to hit/haste caps.

    I would love to see if you could take my gear ungemmed and unreforged an provide me with a maximum Rune proc while having my hit/exp caps as good as possible using "arithmetic":

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erior/advanced

    The fact that you are not seeing the problem and think this is some basic "arthmetic" stuff shows that you should ask for your money back for whatever math education you took.
    Last edited by inferior2; 2013-10-29 at 06:41 PM.

  5. #65
    Just for fun: most people's gear have anywhere between a few hundred billion and a few hundred quintillion combinations of relevant gems, enchant, and reforge combinations. Mr. Robot can sort thru them and find the single best solution in less than 1/10th of a second (on average). Us mere humans would take a wee bit longer

    edit: would still love to get my hands on this tier iLevel example to look into it!
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2013-10-29 at 07:02 PM.
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  6. #66
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    edit: would still love to get my hands on this tier iLevel example to look into it!
    Don't expect any actual feedback to your well written and informational post. People mostly just post to complain about nonsense they don't understand. Effectively you called them out and now they are expectedly silent. I'm surprised someone didn't claim your site hacked their bank account and mailed their life savings to a Nigerian prince at this point. Thank you for bringing swift clarity to an otherwise silly series of posts. If people had legit problems, I would imagine they would have jumped all over getting to show them to you.
    BAD WOLF

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post

    The fact that you are not seeing the problem and think this is some basic "arthmetic" stuff shows that you should ask for your money back for whatever math education you took.
    Hey ! Maybe he's one of those really smart\gifted people that can do long math in their head. Don't be jelly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    . I'm surprised someone didn't claim your site hacked their bank account and mailed their life savings to a Nigerian prince at this point. Thank you for bringing swift clarity to an otherwise silly series of posts. If people had legit problems, I would imagine they would have jumped all over getting to show them to you.
    That's exactly what happened to me after using askmrrobot and my wife left me and my dog died. It's all tied together!

  8. #68
    Warchief Zeror's Avatar
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    I think AskMrRobot is fine for the people who are questioning on what they need to do with their stats and such, which are a huge group of players. But if you are an endgame content player with knowledge you doesn't need this website. You know which stats you need and which you don't need.

    So yeah I think AskMrRobot is a good website for most people as it helps them to improve their gear.

  9. #69
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    That's exactly what happened to me after using askmrrobot and my wife left me and my dog died. It's all tied together!
    It's official. AMR grants your wish of living a country fairy tale. Now you just have to go to the beach to have a beer and wait for the sand to grant you a new truck with tires to go muddin in where you will find your highschool sweetheart is single, you reunite, and then both marry and settle down in your hometown where you raise a perfect American family until tragedy strikes again.
    BAD WOLF

  10. #70
    I must say, it must be exhausting for the folks at AMR having to explain these fairly basic things again and again and again. I've done it on these forums only a handful of times and it's... frustrating. Even on the hunter forums which is one of the ones I visit more often, many of the common posters there seem to have some odd grudge against AMR that I've never been able to link to anything but a lack of understanding.
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeror View Post
    But if you are an endgame content player with knowledge you doesn't need this website. You know which stats you need and which you don't need..
    This is not true. I know what stats I need. It is simple. I want to get my stats as close together as possible (1:1:1 reforge) with mastery being the highest while at the same time being as close to 7.5% hit exp. That is all I want, very easy huh? However, to actually calculate the optimal way of combining gems and reforges to get this is impossible to do manually. With Catus (a reforge program for feral druids) I can get my stats within 10 points of each other. Good luck doing that manually.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelond View Post
    AMR does exactly what you tell it to do and for dps there is in most cases just one way to gear so AMR does a pretty good job of it. However if you play a healer it's a pain balancing spirit and int/2ndary stats you basicly end up spending 30 min putting in random values pressing optimize and looking at the stats it gave you and repeat.
    You're probably better off plotting your stat weight in simc.

    And what you say isn't nearly as complex as what I have to do. I need to sim not only 2 haste caps, but also different stat weights (since they are very close) and various different specs, for various different encounters. Then I have different, competitive trinkets as well (we don't all just coin our BiS HC WF trinkets...). AskMrRobot allows me to easily apply stat weights, reforge, regem, and reenchant optimally and feed the data back to simc. There are a few annoying bugs in the export such as it not recognizing engineering tinkets or recognizing cloak upgrade but I made a perl script which fixes these.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  13. #73
    Side note for the healers out there! The thing that will likely improve your experience the most: the spirit cap option. That will handle spirit much better than changing the weights. Note that there are 2 options: total spirit that include trinket procs and spirit that does NOT include the trinket procs.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Why rely on software to do things I can do manually with very little extra effort? Your analogy doesn't compare btw.
    I believe you are missing my point.

    Also there is no guarantee Simcraft is bug free ...

  15. #75
    Pandaren Monk Forgettable's Avatar
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    Ask Mr. Robot is junk for DKs. The Elitist Jerks Page, Simcraft, and Mendenbarr's Blog all have up to date theorycrafting information. Use them instead. The Reforgelite addon is also currently correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  16. #76
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable View Post
    Ask Mr. Robot is junk for DKs. The Elitist Jerks Page, Simcraft, and Mendenbarr's Blog all have up to date theorycrafting information. Use them instead. The Reforgelite addon is also currently correct.
    ...

    How is it junk?

    1.) Calculate your optimal stat weights including a nice "breakpoint" for haste or whatever using SIMC
    2.) Put them into AMR
    3.) Reap the benefits.

    I don't have the will/patience/desire to manually work out how to reforge to the best hit/exp cap (while keeping the maximum amount of beneficial secondary stats) in my head - why should I when something can do it perfectly for me IF you use the tool correctly. ReforgeLight doesn't deal with gems and enchants either.

    AMR is great, just don't blindly follow the default stat weights.
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  17. #77
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I want to see 450k dps in 5.2. This was when simcrafting my char gave me 180k~ patchwerk. And "you can gain more damage by playing better" - yes lets NOT optimize gear.

    Ok let's cover the basics. SAME reforge, SAME item, SAME upgrades, only difference is TF. Relative rank. This was back in 5.2 so no idea if it was fixed as I haven't attempted to take AMR seriously since.
    That's 450k DAMAGE not DPS.

  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Just for fun: most people's gear have anywhere between a few hundred billion and a few hundred quintillion combinations of relevant gems, enchant, and reforge combinations. Mr. Robot can sort thru them and find the single best solution in less than 1/10th of a second (on average). Us mere humans would take a wee bit longer

    edit: would still love to get my hands on this tier iLevel example to look into it!
    Or read the posts (goes for everyone else)

    It was OFFPIECES. Not tier. TF tier? what?

    @person who said simcraft has bugs too, indeed it does. I've had a lot of arguments with simcraft editors about some of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Or read the posts (goes for everyone else)

    It was OFFPIECES. Not tier. TF tier? what?

    @person who said simcraft has bugs too, indeed it does. I've had a lot of arguments with simcraft editors about some of them.
    You know exactly what he meant. He obviously either misspoke or meant "this tier" as in this segment of the game, tier 16 content, siege of orgrimmar, etc. At this point you're just grabbing at any mistake you can find and just throwing it back at people in support of your argument that has no backing whatsoever.

    Really, what is your argument even at this point? "It bugged for me this one time in this specific situation with these two pieces of gear, so the whole website is garbage"? Do you expect anyone to give any credence to that? Especially without evidence of it at all? Or even an example?

    Or perhaps it's "it bugged this one time so it's unreliable forever". Hate to break it to you, all software has bugs, and will always have bugs. Even right now, world of logs seems to be descending into being un-maintained, with some pretty serious bugs, yet thousands of people are still using it and getting useful results from it. AMR is actively maintained, with devs that even came into a fansite forum to respond to concerns, which you've basically just tossed aside because he made a minor mistake in asking to see evidence of the actual problem you're having or once had.

    AMR isn't google, throwing millions into projects and making near flawless perfect websites and software. It's completely free and basically voluntarily maintained, and works damn well in those constraints.
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  20. #80
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    You know exactly what he meant. He obviously either misspoke or meant "this tier" as in this segment of the game, tier 16 content, siege of orgrimmar, etc. At this point you're just grabbing at any mistake you can find and just throwing it back at people in support of your argument that has no backing whatsoever.

    Really, what is your argument even at this point? "It bugged for me this one time in this specific situation with these two pieces of gear, so the whole website is garbage"? Do you expect anyone to give any credence to that? Especially without evidence of it at all? Or even an example?

    Or perhaps it's "it bugged this one time so it's unreliable forever". Hate to break it to you, all software has bugs, and will always have bugs. Even right now, world of logs seems to be descending into being un-maintained, with some pretty serious bugs, yet thousands of people are still using it and getting useful results from it. AMR is actively maintained, with devs that even came into a fansite forum to respond to concerns, which you've basically just tossed aside because he made a minor mistake in asking to see evidence of the actual problem you're having or once had.

    AMR isn't google, throwing millions into projects and making near flawless perfect websites and software. It's completely free and basically voluntarily maintained, and works damn well in those constraints.
    my point was one short post, that a load of people came to blindly defend because AMR couldn't EVER be wrong according to them. It is you guys who made a huge issue of this, not me. I did the courtesy of responding to those posts at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

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