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  1. #21
    I think a lot of the issue is other classes have stupid amounts of damage.. example is hunters, mages and especially warriors. Which over shadows other pvp specs.. which as a shadow priest.. I know the feeling..

  2. #22
    I would like to see corruption removed from the spec and shadow bolt get its cast time lowered.

  3. #23
    CW is not really an aoe anymore...it has a very small radius which can no longer be increased by MF. So unless you were talking about an RBG aoe grip > solar > 2xCW its probably not going to be a problem unless the other team stands on top of themselves which most competent teams don't. Though if they bumped ToC (which at high pve ilvls is really scaling poorly) I'd be okay with ignoring CW. Just right now demo has no real way to burst or pressure. CW at present isn't going to hit more than 1 person in realistic situations. Even a minecart dogpile though still that's what 30+ radius vs 5'ish but its still NOTHING compared to a warrior lolstorming does to a tighly packed crowd. CW outside of CD's is a joke...problem is its a joke with all CD's. Fixing the double crit vs 0 crit thing would just smooth the RNG out enough you could tune it to hurt to be legit burst but not be an aoe teamkiller.

  4. #24
    Keyboard Turner DarkWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    CW is not really an aoe anymore...it has a very small radius which can no longer be increased by MF. So unless you were talking about an RBG aoe grip > solar > 2xCW its probably not going to be a problem unless the other team stands on top of themselves which most competent teams don't. Though if they bumped ToC (which at high pve ilvls is really scaling poorly) I'd be okay with ignoring CW. Just right now demo has no real way to burst or pressure. CW at present isn't going to hit more than 1 person in realistic situations. Even a minecart dogpile though still that's what 30+ radius vs 5'ish but its still NOTHING compared to a warrior lolstorming does to a tighly packed crowd. CW outside of CD's is a joke...problem is its a joke with all CD's. Fixing the double crit vs 0 crit thing would just smooth the RNG out enough you could tune it to hurt to be legit burst but not be an aoe teamkiller.
    Don't you think that instant cast spells that do a lot of damage is a problem overall?
    This will be like a frost mage, that everybody is complaining about,
    Maybe it would be better if SF would be buffed to be the go to burst spell (bigger cast time reduction but not into instant, like a 1 sec cast)?

    Biggest Demo problem is the big difference between caster form and demo form damage and mastery scaling,
    DS+Demon form is much much more damage the regular caster form, which just makes you do no pressure at all and then a sdm.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWolf View Post
    Don't you think that instant cast spells that do a lot of damage is a problem overall?
    This will be like a frost mage, that everybody is complaining about,
    Maybe it would be better if SF would be buffed to be the go to burst spell (bigger cast time reduction but not into instant, like a 1 sec cast)?

    Biggest Demo problem is the big difference between caster form and demo form damage and mastery scaling,
    DS+Demon form is much much more damage the regular caster form, which just makes you do no pressure at all and then a sdm.
    The difference is that frost mages aren't limited by demonic fury as a resource.

  6. #26
    and??

    what's the problem?? . you have 2 other specs . when there is a finite list of items. one of them must be the last one.
    Last edited by Zarach; 2013-11-06 at 01:57 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #27
    Epic! mrgummage's Avatar
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    By how much is it the least represented PvP spec?

    If it's 7% of the pool and #2 lowest is 8-9% of the pool, then that doesn't seem so serious (someone has to be last right?).
    If however they are 5% of the pool and #2 lowest is 9% of the pool then there is an issue.

    It is also worth taking into account how popular the other two specs are, if Affliction and Destruction are very strong (i.e.: popular), then the strength/popularity of the other specs could be more the issue than Demonology being underpowered.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWolf View Post
    Don't you think that instant cast spells that do a lot of damage is a problem overall?
    This will be like a frost mage, that everybody is complaining about,
    Maybe it would be better if SF would be buffed to be the go to burst spell (bigger cast time reduction but not into instant, like a 1 sec cast)?

    Biggest Demo problem is the big difference between caster form and demo form damage and mastery scaling,
    DS+Demon form is much much more damage the regular caster form, which just makes you do no pressure at all and then a sdm.

    I really don't think a 2 min CD+all other avail CD stacking instant spell that is limited by charges hitting hard is at all out of line. Without the CD stacking CW would still hit for meh (much like a non CD stacked chaosbolt is trivial) nor is it spammable and ALL of it is still throttled by DF which is VERY slow/hard to build in pvp.

    When you compare to how hard hunters, mages, etc all hit with ranged instant attacks I think the hypocrisy is in how pathetically little CW hits for presently....same deal with ToC.

    When demo was "good" in MoP in pvp it was a VERY specific set of circumstances that made it situationally OP:
    1. MF talent making a chaoswave hit most of a team - simply not possible in game anymore
    2. 2 min CD stacked attack that not only relied on all CD's "swifty" style but sac'ing your pet and using demo rebirth after.
    3. The sub 2% chance (about 1.5-1.6%'ish) chance at a double crit of both chaoswaves.

    When ALL of those stars aligned and you had everything hit once per 2 mins you could do something OP. As a result the spec was broken beyond function with the evolutionary changes being to further PVP detriment (eg FF's dmg vs its mana cost when 75%+ dmg redux is factored in). When you compare what the successful pvp caster/ranged specs do over that same time period its evident demo's toolkit is severely lacking. The numbers of representation completely back up this position.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgummage View Post
    By how much is it the least represented PvP spec?

    If it's 7% of the pool and #2 lowest is 8-9% of the pool, then that doesn't seem so serious (someone has to be last right?).
    If however they are 5% of the pool and #2 lowest is 9% of the pool then there is an issue.

    It is also worth taking into account how popular the other two specs are, if Affliction and Destruction are very strong (i.e.: popular), then the strength/popularity of the other specs could be more the issue than Demonology being underpowered.
    Flawed logic, when all the tank specs in the game have a higher representation at 1800+ then there is a problem regardless of how "popular" the other 2 specs are. I don't want the spec to be OP like it was at the start of MOP. But Nerfing it into being absolutely worthless at high end play because of damage "pve reasons or not" is a problem and should be addressed immediately and not left on the shelf for the rest of the x pac. Just my 2 cents. Doesn't seem fair at all to the players who enjoy the spec.

  10. #30
    Demo has the same (if not better!) CC toolkit than the other specs, does its damage instantly for the most part, and has a strong anti melee defensive aspect. You would think these traits would make it successful in pvp but its not. Why?

    Damage. The spec cannot do damage in pvp so it doesn't matter what its mechanics are. Doom can be dispelled nearly twice before it ticks once, DF is absurdly hard to come by, your crit chance in pvp gear even using it as a secondary stat is quite low, and the mana cost of its spells do not keep pace with pvp damage reduction meaning you literally do more damage to yourself. You lack burst to kill anything nor do you have pressure to "rot" a team like affliction.

    If blizzard is so fast or eager to nerf chaosbolt damage versus players they could show an equal duty of care to demo's damage situation by making some of the changes outlined above. They would have 0 pve impact the same way the CB change is pve irrelevant. Why they don't is basically apathy.

  11. #31
    I'd rather have the pre-demonic fury warlock. Especially because KJC would actually be useful if we had incinerate.

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