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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post

    How often though are your hands tied by the kick protection system when you NEED to kick a bad/afk player to finish a dungeon or LFR? In LFR especially, at least half the players who need to be kicked have some kind of protection, either via your own personal kick timer or their "can't be kicked" timer. What exactly does the kick protection *teach* these players? That it's okay to AFK your way to free loot? That it's okay to play like an imbecile, die on every boss, do half the acceptable DPS for your gear level? I don't understand why people like this deserve Blizzard's protection. We should teach them that this isn't acceptable behavior. You do that by kicking them and punishing them.
    This is sanctimonious horseshit and here's why.

    1) it is not your responsibility nor right to "teach" anyone. If you want to offer constructive advice, fine. If you want to play god and make everyone miserable, it's not.

    2) you have no idea who the *real* person is on the other end of your vitriol. Is it a new player who is honestly trying? Is it a young person? Is it someone with a learning disability? That's right, you *don't* know the answer to any of these questions. But, rest assured, there is a real person being targeted by your venom. A person who may indeed be incapable of playing better.

    3) for whatever reason the person is not playing how *you* think they should, they are either willing to put up with your venom or not. If you do not have a majority of people agreeing with you, then move on. Be quiet. Or form your own premade group which your fragile ego may be better suited to function within.

    It's that simple.
    Last edited by dusselldorf; 2013-10-30 at 12:21 AM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    for whatever reason the person is not playing how *you* think they should
    Let all the jerks play together, and not with me.

    Then everyone can play the way they want to.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yes, because as we've said to you several times already, tolerating this is what leads to LFR AKFers and 30k DPSers. Of course, you ignored that.

    incidentally, I certainly hope you never hand out infractions here. I mean, does one bad comment really matter? Is it really worth getting upset about? *cough*
    This is the whole point of why several of us are annoyed by the approach some of you have tbh. If you accept the poor performance of players at low level, ignore that they are leeching, ignore that they are doing 15k dps as lvl 90, ignore that they afk, then you have no right to complain when you meet them in LFR at lvl 90, where they wipe you doing 30k dps, standing in fire, akf'ing or queuing as tank in PvP gear.

    It's rather simple really.

    @Leonora: Some players in LFR do actually have a kick protection. I've had players that nobody could kick, where everyone got the same message when trying "player can not be kicked for 3 hours" or w/e crap message.

    It's not about whether or not lowbie dungeons can be completed or not with one leech/bad, we all know they can. What really baffles me, is that some of you almost makes it sound like the rest of us are in the wrong for trying to improve the community by setting some standards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    This is sanctimonious horseshit and here's why.

    1) it is not your responsibility nor right to "teach" anyone. If you want to offer constructive advice, fine. If you want to play god and make everyone miserable, it's not.

    2) you have no idea who the *real* person is on the other end of your vitriol. Is it a new player who is honestly trying? Is it a young person? Is it someone with a learning disability? That's right, you *don't* know the answer to any of these questions. But, rest assured, there is a real person being targeted by your venom. A person who may indeed be incapable of playing better.

    3) for whatever reason the person is not playing how *you* think they should, they are either willing to put up with your venom or not. If you do not have a majority of people agreeing with you, then move on. Be quiet. Or form your own premade group which your fragile ego may be better suited to function within.

    It's that simple.
    1) It's not my responsibility no, but as a community you take on some responsibility to make the game a better experience overall - it's an MMO after all. How is the OP playing God in any way? How was he making everyone miserable by asking, why the dude didn't have a weapon equipped?

    2) "Young", there's a limit to how young the player can be, since the game is PG 13 right? (Think it's PG 13). How does having a disability affects your ability to equip a weapon. If the dude knows enough about the game to have grinded Heirloom gear, I highly doubt he doesn't know, that ofc he needs a weapon - I call BS. How is the OP "targeting the dude with venom" rofl?? Stop playing the disability card already, it's just pathetic.

    3) The dude was not playing, the way the game is intended to be played - with a weapon equipped. We're not talking about the OP demanding X amount of dps, we're talking about the OP asking why Mr. baddie didn't even have a weapon equipped and why Mr. Baddie was afk - big difference.
    Last edited by Danishpsycho; 2013-10-30 at 02:28 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    This is sanctimonious horseshit and here's why.

    1) it is not your responsibility nor right to "teach" anyone. If you want to offer constructive advice, fine. If you want to play god and make everyone miserable, it's not.

    2) you have no idea who the *real* person is on the other end of your vitriol. Is it a new player who is honestly trying? Is it a young person? Is it someone with a learning disability? That's right, you *don't* know the answer to any of these questions. But, rest assured, there is a real person being targeted by your venom. A person who may indeed be incapable of playing better.

    3) for whatever reason the person is not playing how *you* think they should, they are either willing to put up with your venom or not. If you do not have a majority of people agreeing with you, then move on. Be quiet. Or form your own premade group which your fragile ego may be better suited to function within.

    It's that simple.
    1, yes, i offer nicely put constructive criticism. Problem is the player who *insists* he is doing fine when he is actually being carried. Worth of zero time and kick protection allows their style of ruining the game for rest.
    2, New players are fine when they are learning, we all did once. Venom is reserved for those who continuously fails at their role and doesn't have brain to learn when repeatedly told and showed how to.
    3, Thing is, theres no *me* saying how they should play. There are things called game mechanics and beating those will need a certain amount of DPS amongst other values. The game tells us how much you need to do to survive a boss encounter. Those who keep failing at this are beyond any help or simply slackers who want to carried.

    The ones who get angry when someone advices their wrong way to play, those have the fragile egos. Those think they are the hottest shit and best of best when their humongous ego gets on the way of accepting help. Want to get ready for raiding? Listen what others say and read, read, read some more and improve yourself!

    I would be happy to help a new guy in the game and i have helped few in the past. Those idiots who can't play and insults when offering help are worth zero time and should just fuck off, making the game better for all of us.
    It was a beautiful summer day, and Virtanen and Lahtinen were in a little rowboat in the middle of a lake, fishing. Two hours passed, both men sitting quietly, and then Lahtinen said "Nice weather today." Virtanen grunted and stared intently at his fishing rod. Two more hours passed. Lahtinen said, "Gee, the fish aren't biting today." Virtanen shot back: "That's because you talk too much."

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    And guess one reason you get crap players in LFR? Because you and others let them be crap as they level with no penalty.
    No, I am not taking responsibility for that. The ultimate consequence of your remark is that I, and you, and everyone would have responsibility to educate anyone we see playing badly. But WoW is not a society with an educational system; I am not being payed for that ... I have to pay myself. Instead, we have the ability to remove from LFR anyone the group deems not eligible for making the end of the instance. Which is a system I find pragmatic.

    I do wonder if *you* take the consequences of your remark serious. It means you invest your time in anyone coming on your path in WoW that plays (in your eyes) badly. Do you? Really? Or are you of the school that thinks they 'teach people' by kicking them in LFD? As I argued before, that does not really teach them... so, try again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    How often though are your hands tied by the kick protection system when you NEED to kick a bad/afk player to finish a dungeon or LFR? In LFR especially, at least half the players who need to be kicked have some kind of protection, either via your own personal kick timer or their "can't be kicked" timer. What exactly does the kick protection *teach* these players? That it's okay to AFK your way to free loot? That it's okay to play like an imbecile, die on every boss, do half the acceptable DPS for your gear level? I don't understand why people like this deserve Blizzard's protection. We should teach them that this isn't acceptable behavior. You do that by kicking them and punishing them.
    Highlighted some words I missed earlier. To the best of my knowledge, if there is a kick protection system, it only works in LFD. In LFR nobody is protected; dc-ed and afk people get kicked automatically and others that offend can be voted on in general if 4 people press the kick option on them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Danishpsycho>>This is the whole point of why several of us are annoyed by the approach some of you have tbh. If you accept the poor performance of players at low level, ignore that they are leeching, ignore that they are doing 15k dps as lvl 90, ignore that they afk, then you have no right to complain when you meet them in LFR at lvl 90, where they wipe you doing 30k dps, standing in fire, akf'ing or queuing as tank in PvP gear.

    I was writing that this is not the same - but then I realise I dont complain about people not pulling their weight in LFR . I am fine with LFR, I just kick who causes my instance to take too long by not pulling their weight. And I am very accepting towards such, as I generally contribute a good performance myself so that others can afford to be slightly under par without the raid failing.

    >> @Leonora: Some players in LFR do actually have a kick protection. I've had players that nobody could kick, where everyone got the same message when trying "player can not be kicked for 3 hours" or w/e crap message.
    It's not about whether or not lowbie dungeons can be completed or not with one leech/bad, we all know they can. What really baffles me, is that some of you almost makes it sound like the rest of us are in the wrong for trying to improve the community by setting some standards.
    >>1) It's not my responsibility no, but as a community you take on some responsibility to make the game a better experience overall - it's an MMO after all. How is the OP playing God in any way? How was he making everyone miserable by asking, why the dude didn't have a weapon equipped?

    You and others keep playing this community-wide responsibility argument, but I cant take it serious so far. WoW is no society with an educational system in which people are payed to teach, and even in society you then have people not pulling their weight. How exactly would you execute this approach of yours in voluntary payed-by-yourself WoW? As I argued before, kicking in LFD does not do the trick, that message is way too ambiguous. So what then? Are *you* investing that huge amount of time needed to put this idea of you into action?

    I can claim I am actually doing partly what you propose via my guild and on personal grounds when I feel like it, even though I deny this community-wide responsibility.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonora View Post
    Highlighted some words I missed earlier. To the best of my knowledge, if there is a kick protection system, it only works in LFD. In LFR nobody is protected; dc-ed and afk people get kicked automatically and others that offend can be voted on in general if 4 people press the kick option on them.
    Nope, protection works in LFR as well. I've seen all too often "That player cannot be kicked for another 45 minutes." or similar. I'm not sure if their personal protection works, or if your own "too many kicks" timer is the one causing it. I do know however that LFR players have some kind of protection, which is just stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    This is sanctimonious horseshit and here's why.

    1) it is not your responsibility nor right to "teach" anyone. If you want to offer constructive advice, fine. If you want to play god and make everyone miserable, it's not.
    It is the responsibility of EVERY player in the WoW community to help make the community as a whole better. This means weeding out the trolls and people who want to be carried, and trying to help the bad players be less bad. If they don't accept your advice, they should get kicked. Learn or leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    2) you have no idea who the *real* person is on the other end of your vitriol. Is it a new player who is honestly trying? Is it a young person? Is it someone with a learning disability? That's right, you *don't* know the answer to any of these questions. But, rest assured, there is a real person being targeted by your venom. A person who may indeed be incapable of playing better.
    I'm fairly certain every person on Earth is capable of more than some of these people. I've seen far too many afk players auto-attacking a boss or putting someone on follow and getting free loot. Those players are protected from punishment by this stupid kick system.

    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    3) for whatever reason the person is not playing how *you* think they should, they are either willing to put up with your venom or not. If you do not have a majority of people agreeing with you, then move on. Be quiet. Or form your own premade group which your fragile ego may be better suited to function within.

    It's that simple.
    This isn't a playstyle discussion, this is a "playing the game or AFK" discussion, or "doing DPS or auto-attacking" discussion. I have no problem with new players who aren't doing their rotations correctly... everyone starts somewhere. It's the lack of EFFORT that annoys me, not the lack of skill.

    Forming a premade isn't really an option for LFR... if I had enough people to carry an LFR (which admittedly only takes like 5 or 6 people), I'd simply form a Flex and faceroll that instead.

    I'm not sure where all this anti-elitist attitude you're slinging my way came from, but whatever. This isn't even about elitism, it's about people not giving a fuck and wanting to be carried. That's something everyone can agree needs to end immediately. Though I see little hope of it ending, seeing as battleground botting has been a problem for damn near a decade now.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaige View Post
    This is the worst possible response ever All the slackers/afkers in lfr use it constantly.
    I'm neither a slacker nor an AFKer and I use this "worst possible response" all the time.

    If the group is succeeding, then I have no interest in trying to stir up shit by singling out underperformers. I don't feel like they're "leeching" off me.

    I don't know why some people appear to be slacking, and it is very difficult to distinguish people who are having some real life game interference/distraction/emergency from people who are lazy from people who are just trolling to provoke a reaction exactly like OP's. I don't see the point in investigating or complaining if there is no problem with the group's success.

  8. #68
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    First of all, I did state I was playing Devil's Advocate, which means taking the "unpopular" viewpoint.

    Second, the issue is what do you teach people by kicking them? You teach them that the community is full of assholes and "elitists". Is it the community's responsibility to teach people? I would argue to an extent that it is, and that generally means being helpful and not "wtf 30k dps? u scrub l2p" and kick. WHY are they doing 30k DPS? Are they obviously trolling or one of those people that go into LFR thinking it's faceroll easy because "it's just LFR" and that means they don't have to try? Are they actually putting an effort in but are doing the wrong things (e.g. are they a warlock not keeping up DoTs)? Most LFR people that I see underperform aren't doing it because they're trolls looking for easy loot, they genuinely aren't aware of the better ways of doing things probably because most players aren't aware of third-party sites that have resources and information for maximizing your character.
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    First of all, it was a level 35 dungeon. Who really cares if one person wasn't pulling their weight?
    Since this thread exists, it seems pretty obvious the OP cares. This type of reply is pretty close to trolling...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Kick protection is there to prevent people from kicking, say, fresh 90s from heroics for doing "low DPS" and because you would frequently have groups of 4 guildmates join up and then kick the 5th person to bring in another guildmate for the last boss.
    MoP dungeons are designed for low dps to still be able to complete them, so why do they need protection? Most groups seem to power through even with 3 low dps and not bother with vote kicks unless a person really deserves it or a wipe happens because of it. Also last I checked you haven't been able to invite a person to an LFD group for all of MoP. Did this change when I wasn't looking?

  10. #70
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slatch View Post
    MoP dungeons are designed for low dps to still be able to complete them, so why do they need protection? Most groups seem to power through even with 3 low dps and not bother with vote kicks unless a person really deserves it or a wipe happens because of it. Also last I checked you haven't been able to invite a person to an LFD group for all of MoP. Did this change when I wasn't looking?
    I've seen a few times and heard a few horror stories of fresh 90s being booted out for "slowing us down" in an overgeared group. It's rare, but it happens. It also happened in Cata (after nerfs ofc) and Wrath before that.
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  11. #71
    I'd agree that booting happens, but it's not the crazy amount it used to be in Cata. Kick protection probably is outdated now and needs the ax.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slatch View Post
    I'd agree that booting happens, but it's not the crazy amount it used to be in Cata. Kick protection probably is outdated now and needs the ax.
    It doesn't happen because people don't have the ability to do it.

    The people who want to use game tools to make the game unpleasant for random strangers, just because, will use whatever tools are at their disposal. I'm glad they no longer have the kick tool in the way they did for the first months of Cataclysm. And I don't want them to ever have it again.

    I've had many situations where I would have liked to kick someone who couldn't be kicked. But I have seen very very few cases where being unable to kick that person was anything more than a minor nuisance.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Therefore, they kicked the healer who queued with the tank. Guess who actually lost with that?
    Not big deal lower levels are filled with tanks and healers because of the insane OPnees of these roles.I wait max 2 min as dps to enter in the LFD and most of the time there was lack of 1-2 dps in queue

    I meet tank and healer today were kick the Tank because he loves to begin AFK every few mins healer seems was with him and left but we got brand new ones after 30 seconds

    Back to topic You should ask your friend the tank why he press accept coz as far as i know 2 ppl cant kick you from the group its need 3/5
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-10-31 at 06:25 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    This just seems so ass backwards to me. Logic would dictate that if you're being kicked often, you should be MORE susceptible to kicks, not less. If you're being enough of a dick or being REALLY bad so often that people are kicking you, you deserve nothing. Hell, I'd issue queue bans for players who are kicked more than once a week.

    Within 1 week:
    1st kick: Deserter debuff
    2nd kick: 1-week ban from LFD/LFR

    I've queued a LOT since LFD was introduced years ago, and I think I've been kicked a total of 3 times in that span, all of them for telling stupid/terrible people to stop being stupid/terrible.
    The basic idea is that players deserve to be able to use the basic random group play features of the game even if they are clueless.

    If you're in a random group and you are saddled with someone who is an annoyance, but who you can't kick, what you need to do is be a pretend adult, stop whining and play the game. It should be easy to see that.

    If you are in a 5 player group in Maraudon, and you have one player who is doing nothing useful, and meanwhile any 2 of the remaining 4 players could complete the instance, honestly, who gives a shit about that 5th player who is doing nothing useful, for whatever reason that you know nothing about. Pretend you listened to your parents when they told you to stop worrying about what other people are doing and just do a good job on your own.

    By not harassing the "bad," you might:

    1) Ignore a troll, which is the only way you can win with a troll,
    2) Not crush the spirit of someone who is new and genuinely clueless,
    3) Not piss off someone who has some surprise real world shit to deal with
    4) Mind your own business

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonora View Post
    No, I am not taking responsibility for that. The ultimate consequence of your remark is that I, and you, and everyone would have responsibility to educate anyone we see playing badly. But WoW is not a society with an educational system; I am not being payed for that ... I have to pay myself. Instead, we have the ability to remove from LFR anyone the group deems not eligible for making the end of the instance. Which is a system I find pragmatic.

    I do wonder if *you* take the consequences of your remark serious. It means you invest your time in anyone coming on your path in WoW that plays (in your eyes) badly. Do you? Really? Or are you of the school that thinks they 'teach people' by kicking them in LFD? As I argued before, that does not really teach them... so, try again.
    it's not my responsibility to teach them. It's their responsibility, once they decide to group with others and hence affect the game for others, to know at least the basics of their class. I rarely kick but fully understand kicking someone who, at level 35 is either so careless or so malicious that they don't even have a weapon equipped.


    FOR EXAMPLE: Here's a search for 'priest wow how to play' https://encrypted.google.com/search?...ow%20to%20play. Note that there's a ton of good basic info in the first few links. This is precisely why I think the "But people can't be expected to know about 3rd party sites' line is bullshit. Even if they have no idea about places like this, one simple search gives them a ton of information that will avoid silly crap like not having a weapon equipped or gearing with entirely incorrect stats. Hell, the first 4 links give you information one starting a priest and on each of the 3 specs.

    You entirely missed my point though. HOWEVER someone chooses to deal with the situation raised in OP, it should be dealt with. Letting people like the clueless (or leeching) priest get away with it breeds the sort of person who does 30k in LFR, stands in fire, AFKs, etc. After all, they've repeatedly been able to do that from 1 to 90, why not do it in LFR?

    As for who should teach them, I have two answers. First, the web. It's easy to google something like "how to play priest in warcraft" and get back a ton of links and then read them. Spending an hour once doing that will probably get you the basics of your class and no, an hour isn't that much. Second, even if they don't think to do that, ask in guild chat. That's what I did when I started. In 2006 there wasn't as many resource and so I asked - hey, what stats should I use as a rogue, etc. I found out that I wanted agility, then crit and the rest didn't matter that much when leveling. "How do i choose weapons?" produced some advice on dps range etc.

    What's that? Someone doesn't want to be guilded and refuses to use the web to learn? Tough shit then. That's their choice, they can deal with the consequences of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    First of all, I did state I was playing Devil's Advocate, which means taking the "unpopular" viewpoint.
    I hate it when people do this. Argue what you really think or gtfo. Want to play Devil's advocate? DENIED
    Second, the issue is what do you teach people by kicking them? You teach them that the community is full of assholes and "elitists". Is it the community's responsibility to teach people? I would argue to an extent that it is,
    No, it's not. it's up to the person to learn or to ask people like their frinds or in guild chat. That's the community which should teach them. WHen they queue for a dungeon they're implicitly saying "I can and will perform this role in a group setting" and if they don't know how to do this they shouldn't queue. You're committing one my favorite errors, that of valuing the needs of the one over the needs of the many.

    and that generally means being helpful and not "wtf 30k dps? u scrub l2p"
    I completely agree people shouldn't be assholes to others. I don't agree that, by queuing, I'm accepting that I need to coddle people, carry them or instruct them. I *might* do that and it would be nice if people offered help nicely, but enough times the person who is underachieving flames you back that it's hard to want to offer help.

    Most LFR people that I see underperform aren't doing it because they're trolls looking for easy loot, they genuinely aren't aware of the better ways of doing things probably because most players aren't aware of third-party sites that have resources and information for maximizing your character.
    And again, hit Google and do a simple search. I mean, really, this is 2013 it's not like it's a secret that there's a vast web of information out there and that you can type a few words into Google or Bing and find it. Plus, we ARE talking about someone who goes online to play a game - presumably the internet isn't a foreign place for them. Or, ask in a guild.

    Look, I'm not against helping others, but I do expect the player to try to help themselves.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-11-01 at 01:35 AM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    If you're in a random group and you are saddled with someone who is an annoyance, but who you can't kick, what you need to do is be a pretend adult, stop whining and play the game. It should be easy to see that.
    Round and round in circles we go.

    "Stick your head in the sand and pretend it's all okay" is not a solution. It's ignoring the problem. It's teaching these people, whether they're doing it on purpose or not, that their behavior is acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    1) Ignore a troll, which is the only way you can win with a troll,
    2) Not crush the spirit of someone who is new and genuinely clueless,
    3) Not piss off someone who has some surprise real world shit to deal with
    4) Mind your own business
    1) You can also win with a troll by removing them from your group.
    2) I wouldn't kick someone who is obviously new to the game in a low level dungeon. However, by level 90, you need to know at least the basics. Don't burden a group with your presence if you don't.
    3) There is a handy "Leave Party" option just 2 clicks away. Use it if you need to go take care of an emergency.
    4) Again, "Plug your ears and go lalalalalala" is not a solution.

  17. #77
    Clevin, I feel you live in a theoretical world based on the thought 'if only they would do some homework/think/learn from why they are kicked'. However, people at times dont do their homework, dont want to think that much, or dont get why they were kicked. I dont really believe you practice what you preach unless you join LFD/LFR very rarely; your ideas will in the long run cause a lot of frustration because reality is not as you think it is. The approach I use is caused by numerous joinings of LFD/LFR and the wish to have a good time doing so.

    Funny enough, while I dont agree with you, I can name quite some examples where I taught people how to play; I am curious if you can do the same. Anyway, I feel I respond to your arguments, but I dont have the impression you respond to mine. Byebye thread .

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    1) You can also win with a troll by removing them from your group.
    2) I wouldn't kick someone who is obviously new to the game in a low level dungeon. However, by level 90, you need to know at least the basics. Don't burden a group with your presence if you don't.
    3) There is a handy "Leave Party" option just 2 clicks away. Use it if you need to go take care of an emergency.
    4) Again, "Plug your ears and go lalalalalala" is not a solution.
    You're just wrong.

    Smacking people on the ass when they breach some rule of importance only to you is not "teaching."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also:

    Unless you are raiding heroic modes, my opinion is that YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG if you think it is necessary or even advisable to consult out of game resources for things like "how to play my class."

    The "RP" in "MMORPG" stands for "immersion," and "immersion" is not "reading some web site about which addons to use and whether to click or keybind and what strat(egie)s to use to kill various inconvenient pixel organisms that lie in your way."

    You do not need and should not need and should never be required to read a "how to play" guide in this game, unless you are playing with the tiny percentage of players who have agreed that they don't give a shit about the game, except how to beat it.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    You're just wrong.

    Smacking people on the ass when they breach some rule of importance only to you is not "teaching."
    Agree to disagree. I think it's better to teach them an ambiguous "You did something wrong" lesson than it is to teach them that it's okay to be AFK or auto-attacking a boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Unless you are raiding heroic modes, my opinion is that YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG if you think it is necessary or even advisable to consult out of game resources for things like "how to play my class."
    I wish that was the case, but this is the result when you force casuals into raiding. Raiding (successfully) in WoW is not something you can just hop into with no prior knowledge. You need to have at least a basic understanding of class and boss mechanics, or you're going to die. Yes, even in braindead LFR. If you can't handle that, then maybe you would better enjoy PvP, pet battles, leveling alts, or one of the many other activities that don't burden groups with your presence.

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Not big deal lower levels are filled with tanks and healers because of the insane OPnees of these roles.I wait max 2 min as dps to enter in the LFD and most of the time there was lack of 1-2 dps in queue

    I meet tank and healer today were kick the Tank because he loves to begin AFK every few mins healer seems was with him and left but we got brand new ones after 30 seconds

    Back to topic You should ask your friend the tank why he press accept coz as far as i know 2 ppl cant kick you from the group its need 3/5
    Well, obviously the OP and his friend is 1+1=2. Meaning 3 people DID vote to kick him. The slacker with Heirloom yet no weapon equipped and afk'ing + the 2 other random dps. So maybe you should learn to count

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    First of all, I did state I was playing Devil's Advocate, which means taking the "unpopular" viewpoint.

    Second, the issue is what do you teach people by kicking them? You teach them that the community is full of assholes and "elitists". Is it the community's responsibility to teach people? I would argue to an extent that it is, and that generally means being helpful and not "wtf 30k dps? u scrub l2p" and kick. WHY are they doing 30k DPS? Are they obviously trolling or one of those people that go into LFR thinking it's faceroll easy because "it's just LFR" and that means they don't have to try? Are they actually putting an effort in but are doing the wrong things (e.g. are they a warlock not keeping up DoTs)? Most LFR people that I see underperform aren't doing it because they're trolls looking for easy loot, they genuinely aren't aware of the better ways of doing things probably because most players aren't aware of third-party sites that have resources and information for maximizing your character.
    I get that you try to play devil's advocate here but keep in mind, that in this particular case the person in question had Heirloom yet no weapon equipped. Do we really believe that he knows about Heirlooms but not that he needs a weapon? He was afk, which isn't about L2P, it's just slack. I agree, that the community is probably the best way for new players to learn things, since Blizz makes it so easy to go from 1-90 and barely offers any meaningful advice on how to play. Besides, how many actually read the tips while loading in?

    But again, in this specific case we're not talking about someone who needs advice, we're talking about an annoying leech with no weapon and afk'ing. There's a big difference tbh.

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