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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Plot isn't losing steam. Old storylines need to and have come to an end. The problem is new ones are very interesting. A gameplay driven storyline is what kills any potential for a great story that started in the RTS games and didn't have to bend to the will of a faction driven playerbase.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.

  2. #22
    The Patient Kuul's Avatar
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    The reason I don't understand why people think the game/universe of Warcraft has to end sometime in near future. As far as I'm concerned they are still making new movies (well, a reboot) of Stat Wars and how old is that excactly? 30-40 years? It would be stupid them to shut it down completely. They have their fanbase already and there's nothing holding them back to expand it more and I'm sure there are lots of people expecting it also.

    With Warcraft movie coming also in couple of years, I don't think WoW is going nowhere. It's just how it's going to continue is different matter of fact. And we see they've hit the bottom with Cataclysm and have started to fill the holes, in my opinion, really damn good.

    I think the next expansion will be quite critical for the game and I'm sure they know it when they had 70 developers taken back to WoW from Titan.

    PS. Have they ever actually invited known people from PvP (Reckfu and handful of others) to their headquarters to discuss and hear their opinions about the PvP and how they could improve it?
    Last edited by Kuul; 2013-10-27 at 11:47 PM.

  3. #23
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Plot isn't losing steam. Old storylines need to and have come to an end. The problem is new ones are very interesting. A gameplay driven storyline is what kills any potential for a great story that started in the RTS games and didn't have to bend to the will of a faction driven playerbase.
    Well I think the faction-driven thing needs a little explanation.

    In the RTSes, your faction's story didn't matter for the multiplayer. If Night Elves were the strongest faction that year, you played Night Elves. Didn't matter if you preferred the Scourge storyline in single player.

    In WoW, if you hate your faction's story, you are stuck with it or you change sides because the Multiplayer is ALSO the Singleplayer.

    So Blizz has to baby certain storylines, or ignore others, focus on a third, just to ensure factions don't get mad. Not that it helped with Cata 1-60.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  4. #24
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by seni View Post
    "We have fallen, we must rebuild the final Titan! Do not forget. "

    The Titans have fallen in the fight against the Burning Legion. Azeroth is, or holds the key to reconstructing, the final Titan. There is nothing between us and the all-consuming flames anymore. No dragons, no ancients, no wisps. We the lost lamb in the dark woods.

    "YOU HAVE FAILED ME VARIMATHRAS".
    I think you have hit on something here, now take away for a moment our characters OPness and place it w/in the context of Azeroth as a whole. The guardians are gone, power has been spent, it is the time of mortals to fend for themselves "god" is on the sidelines, doesnt have the energy or desire to defend Azeroth anymore. We are on our own and when the the Legion comes back it will be hell on earth until we figure a way to stop them. Whether it be this expansion or next what i really hope for is that all these major lore characters dont come back. It is us the hero's... Seal Team 6 if you will that answer the call from the Warchief or High King to go and save the world.. no buffs from ancients, or aspects or Titan Keepers.. just us and our own abilities.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckabear/simple

    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  5. #25
    The biggest problem with Sargeras is that he's a major candidate for Deathwing syndrome. He's incalculably powerful, there isn't a situation where the denizens of Azeroth can band together to defeat him without some serious help from the Pantheon or some other outside influence boosting our heroes powers.

    If you look back at WotLK then one major criticism with Arthas was that he ended up being some kind of Saturday morning cartoon show villain because of the complete lack of jeopardy you have when questing in WoW. It doesn't matter how bad ass your villain is when you know that he's completely impotent in the face of your player character because you know that at no point is he going to delete your character from the server because you looked at him wrong.

    The more powerful the villain, the more problematic it becomes. Remember when we had that expansion that stopped us from ever really getting a satisfying conclusion with it's main antagonist because a certain Shaman did all the heavy lifting for us? It didn't do so well......

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I have a personal theory about the Legion. I put it in my sig.

    But no, I don't think the Legion are a big part of WoW lore. They seem in many ways more like a tack-on and a sub-plot most of the time. Yes, we'll get back to beating on them at some point. But by no means will stopping the Legion be the resolution of a plot that's been in the works since 2003.

    It'll be its own self-contained plot, just like every expansion.
    How are the Legion not a big part of WoW lore when almost every major plot line is because of them in some manner? The entire game revolves around the Old Gods and the Burning Legion, and the potential conflict between these two forces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    The expansion is not The Dark Below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Tchoo tchoo motherfuckers.

  7. #27
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
    How are the Legion not a big part of WoW lore when almost every major plot line is because of them in some manner? The entire game revolves around the Old Gods and the Burning Legion, and the potential conflict between these two forces.
    Because the defeat of the Legion is not the end of Warcraft lore. It's a big part of the history, it's not THE history. It's not the main plot this thread is so desperately trying to find.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  8. #28
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Because the defeat of the Legion is not the end of Warcraft lore. It's a big part of the history, it's not THE history. It's not the main plot this thread is so desperately trying to find.
    Agreed, just like the Roman Empire and its history has its influences on all of Western Modern History it is by no means the end all be all. Same as the Legion, yes their influence and their dear leader has influenced much on the WoW universe but time moves on and other threats arise, Old Gods begin to stir, Orcs become power hungry, Kingdoms rise and fall, yes the legion is always a threat but in the end time moves on each xpac and story must stand on its own w/o always saying well the "Legion".
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckabear/simple

    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  9. #29
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    Agreed, just like the Roman Empire and its history has its influences on all of Western Modern History it is by no means the end all be all. Same as the Legion, yes their influence and their dear leader has influenced much on the WoW universe but time moves on and other threats arise, Old Gods begin to stir, Orcs become power hungry, Kingdoms rise and fall, yes the legion is always a threat but in the end time moves on each xpac and story must stand on its own w/o always saying well the "Legion".
    It's kinda like Vikings, or invaders from the East.

    In the late Roman and Medieval ages they were frequent threats, but at the end of the day they were usually minor threats compared to the threats that arose more frequent and more locally.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  10. #30
    Dreadlord
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    The lore in WoW died with Arthas, so did most of my enjoyment with WoW.

    (Doesn't make the game bad ofc)

  11. #31
    It's because the Legion is a side plot, not the main plot. Main plot is the old gods and the lovecraft like idea behind them. And blizzard seems dead set on shoving that in our faces again and again. Not just our direct involvements in it, but also with very subtle hints which are done in quite bad writing to remain as 'mysterious as possible'. Same goes for how they apparently see the Titans and such as a very major plot point but are unwilling to give any definitive answer to that till likely we end up fighting them.

    WoW is loosing steam in my opinion because they keep on trying to just keep it going with hints. Bad idea.
    I'm an altoholic since 2005.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
    We've spent two expansions now sort of humming and hahing. The game needs to refocus and get back to it's roots one way or another. We need a big bad guy that we can love to hate, and heroes we can get behind rather than be irritated by.
    and no more corruption crap

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
    How are the Legion not a big part of WoW lore when almost every major plot line is because of them in some manner? The entire game revolves around the Old Gods and the Burning Legion, and the potential conflict between these two forces.
    How many thing happened because of the Legion, and weren't just influenced by them? Outside of BC, not that many. They may have created the scourge, but they've already lost control of it in TFT, and it was completely independent from them in WotLK. There was no legion involvement whatsoever there. In Cata, there was only a minor Legion camp that gets roflstomped by us while we're disguised as TH cultists and the forces in the WotA dungeon, which don't really have anything to do with the plot.
    Vanilla only had some minor remnants from the Third War that we'rent even a noteworthy threat, just a nuisance.
    They play no role whatsoever again in MoP.

    Sure, they had some involvement in bringing Azeroth to it's current state, but they didn't cause any of the WoW plots outside of BC.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome Zelbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I have a personal theory about the Legion. I put it in my sig.

    But no, I don't think the Legion are a big part of WoW lore. They seem in many ways more like a tack-on and a sub-plot most of the time. Yes, we'll get back to beating on them at some point. But by no means will stopping the Legion be the resolution of a plot that's been in the works since 2003.

    It'll be its own self-contained plot, just like every expansion.
    That's an interesting theory. I've always wondered if Sargeras' downfall and the Old God corruption were somehow connected. Members of the Burning Legion always mention destroying and "remaking" Azeroth/the Universe (the annihilation of Old Gods can also result in Azeroth's destruction). Though I do wonder if Sargeras' goal does not involve re-originating the planet like the Titans wanted (Ulduar). Wrathion's vision indicates the decimation of Azeroth; Sargeras may believe re-origination won't work, thus going for the alternative.

    Could this be why the Burning Legion only attacks those afflicted with the curse of flesh?

    You should make a thread on your theory.
    Last edited by Zelbert; 2013-10-31 at 03:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    People just blame the problem on men in general rather than see this as individuals hurting other individuals.
    It's very frustrating especially when you argue with feminists who want to have a monopoly on being rape victims as if they are the only victims.
    No one wants to accept the fact that society created these monsters.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Plot isn't losing steam. Old storylines need to and have come to an end. The problem is new ones are very interesting. A gameplay driven storyline is what kills any potential for a great story that started in the RTS games and didn't have to bend to the will of a faction driven playerbase.
    Basically this. There is only so much further they can do the whole, "Hey remember that one mission in WC3 where an enemy hero mob was named "Rex Conjurus" well that son of a bitch is pissed off as hell at being killed and is now back doing nefarious deeds!"

    WC3 is a really great game and I love it, but its over 11 years old now and there is only so much they can really draw from the RTS games at this point... They can risk drawing heavily from the books, but they WILL need to provide a LOT of context if they do this as not many WoW players have read every single book.

  16. #36
    Well, I mean the Warcraft games moved faster through various plotlines because each game skipped a few events in-between. We as players are experiencing all of the middle stuff instead of just the wars. Sargeras and the Burning Legion being the main enemy of the Azerothian races leads me to believe that we have a long way to go before we actually go to Sargeras' HQ and defeat him. We as players don't even know where he's at. Plus, defeating the main boss of the whole story then go and finding some kung fu Pandas (joking) seems really anticlimactic if you ask me. We need a long and creative storyarch leading up to the main foe of the series. We need to actually feel the imminent danger of the Burning Legion's power before deciding, "Hey, let's just go and kill Sargeras." To me, each little hint at the Burning Legion feels like we're dealing with something greater than just another end-expansion boss.
    High elves can be playable. You have nothing against them except for population arguments (which we have no numbers on), a blue post (which is already retconned based on the fact that Blood elves are playable), and an Encyclopedia (which hasn't been updated since pre-TBC; and the Silver Covenant makes two out of three claims on their status within the Encyclopedia void). So yes, High elves are just as likely as any other race in-terms of playability.

  17. #37
    Seems to me this is a thread about how you want the burning legion and you have accepted the fact that it's not next

  18. #38
    Immortal Gheld's Avatar
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    You see, I thought the plot was slow, and pretty piecemeal back in Vanilla. Oh look, there's bugs over there, scourge over there, and demons over there. Woopty doo.

    Then in TBC was the first time it had a specific direction. A little bit of side tracking here and there, but okay. The plot is going somewhere.

    In WoTLK the plot was very focused on Arthas. With a minor sidetrack to Ulduar, but Ulduar was freakin epic. It was the biggest piece of lore ever given to the Titans, who before that were just a few random lines of dialogue that people skipped past anyways.

    In Cata, the thought of facing Deathwing, who was evidently the most powerful foe yet felt pretty epic. But then Firelands was a complete letdown story wise.

    BoT let us beat the crap out of Deathwing's Twilight Cult, BWD although reusing some bosses (but in an entirely new encounter) showed us the twisted becomings of the Black Dragonflight. T4W was a complete sidetrack, but BoT and BWD made up for it.

    Then came Firelands, an entire tier of sidetracking from the main plot. All the trash clearing burned my raid time out quickly, and I felt pretty burned out too, so I disappeared from WoW until DS came out.

    DS had some fun encounters, and the whole shabam seemed to get back on track with the Storyline, But spine and madness were a disappointing ending that didn't live up to the expectations I had built the first time I heard "Deathwing has returned!"

    And honestly; I love MoP as a game. The artwork is great. The music is great. The terrain is absolutely beautiful. The raids are alright and the amount of daily questing is still forgivable. But the fact is there was Aszhara and N'Zoth still to deal with. There was hints all throughout Cata of the return of the burning legion. And honestly, MoP was just an entire expansion full of plot sidetracking and tired old inner harmony blah blah blah kung fu movie cliches.

    The main plot isn't losing steam because we just spent over a year sidetracked from it. They need to quit beating around the bush and finish off the main plot.

  19. #39
    They really need another RTS to push the story forward.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Turbotef's Avatar
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    People really worry way too much about this, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest have been keeping decent stories going on for nearly 30 years now. Warcraft is pretty much the same when it comes to making up new lore. As for the faction war, yeah, not too fond of it anymore plus it divides the playerbase up further more than it needs to be (one reason I'm not touching Wildstar) to be honest. Final Fantasy 14 and Guild Wars 2 do the no faction thing right, hell, even Rift now as well.

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