Remove LFR, Flying Mounts ---> Millions Resubscribe

[Deleted]

B/c Legendary is suppose to be legendary... not something you can grind up and get without an effort. whats the point then? Just make it have a Valor value and buy it at that point bc it is just as unique at that point. People need to stop believe they can get w/e they want without working for it. These LFR heroes who complain about keeping LFR come off as spoiled kids honestly. You aren't entitled to shit and nor am I or any other heroic raider. Work for it or don't that your choice but don't just get it handed to you..

Yes well untill your hardcore players begin paying more we're all entitled to everything. No the spoiled children are those throwing hissy fits because the majority can now experience your raids, be it watered down

[Snuglz]

Yes well untill your hardcore players begin paying more we're all entitled to everything \

lol you know that goes both ways right? Me and the other heroic raiders pay the same as a casual but that doesn't mean your entitled to anything in the game. If that is the case why don't we all get fully epic out gear at the start.. or get perfect PvP ranking with all the best gear. I mean we pay the money why don't we just get it.. You know thats dumb right? Figure out another bs excuse to why u deserve anything in game. Your paying to play the game not to see everything it has in it. You have to idk.. actually play the game for that..

[Metallikiddd]

remove arena from the game. then remove kalgan from blizzards employ...and the gaming industry too. rebalance classes around pvp WITHOUT any nerfs to pve. undo every pve nerf. if it interferes with pvp then tough. spells/abilities should be separate at this point anyway to work different depending on whether or not you're flagged. would make it easier to nerf things for pvp without affecting pve. if the coding presents a problem then pvp puts up with it till it gets fixed. don't EVER nerf pve. bring back all the fun novelty stuff (like eyes of the beast and whatnot).

[velde046]

Ah they let Jaylock back in.... well nuff said. Was actually about to make a comment.... but never mind now.

Infracted

[The Glitch]

lol you know that goes both ways right? Me and the other heroic raiders pay the same as a casual but that doesn't mean your entitled to anything in the game. If that is the case why don't we all get fully epic out gear at the start.. or get perfect PvP ranking with all the best gear. I mean we pay the money why don't we just get it.. You know thats dumb right? Figure out another bs excuse to why u deserve anything in game. Your paying to play the game not to see everything it has in it. You have to idk.. actually play the game for that..

It's funny you say that because I actually did play the game to get my legendary cloak. I played and was subbed every month from the beginning of MoP and am still playing and subbed.

So yep, played the game got my lovely cloak. Had fun doing so. Working as intended! :P

[Deleted]

lol you know that goes both ways right? Me and the other heroic raiders pay the same as a casual but that doesn't mean your entitled to anything in the game. If that is the case why don't we all get fully epic out gear at the start.. or get perfect PvP ranking with all the best gear. I mean we pay the money why don't we just get it.. You know thats dumb right? Figure out another bs excuse to why u deserve anything in game. Your paying to play the game not to see everything it has in it. You have to idk.. actually play the game for that..

Sorry are you still crying about people experiencing your content? People playing LFR have worked to hit 90, acquire appropriate ilvl & learn tactics - What's your point again?

[Marema]

PVP should be removed. It wil never be balanced and it is a complete waste of resources. Those resources would be better spent on making more Wrath style 5mans and LFR raids.

[Stealthbomb]

Don't understand the hate on LFR. In wotlk pugs were generally awful and you'd spend 2hours making the group and then 3 hours on the first 4 bosses of ICC. How is LFR worse than that? LFR is there for people who wouldn't normally raid, but now have the option to do so. I think it's an excellent idea, and this is coming from somone who hates pugs and generally only raids with guilds.

[Belisaurio]

PVP should be removed. It wil never be balanced and it is a complete waste of resources. Those resources would be better spent on making more Wrath style 5mans and LFR raids.

And WoW will lose all the PvPers. Of course they will win some people, but I don't see alot of posts/forums/fan base talking trash about PvP and accepting LFR. Maybe I'm wrong, and you've got a good point, but taking out an entire aspect of the game just for give us more of the same...don't know, it feels a bad point to go.

Don't understand the hate on LFR. In wotlk pugs were generally awful and you'd spend 2hours making the group and then 3 hours on the first 4 bosses of ICC. How is LFR worse than that? LFR is there for people who wouldn't normally raid, but now have the option to do so. I think it's an excellent idea, and this is coming from somone who hates pugs and generally only raids with guilds.

That's a fail design. You give a really easy expansion and the curvature for hard content blocks 50% of players. Blame the design, a good progression to reach the minimum skills and a good tools to mount PuGs (raid board in main city, LF People and not Raid, etc,...) seems better in my personal view. One thing is give us the tools to advance, the other one is give us the same path rehashed again and again...and then, tunned down.

[idefiler6]

I think many people underestimate just how many older players who have quit because the game got too casual friendly, would actually resubscribe making a few TBC esque changes to the game.

If the developers removed LFR, and flying mounts from the game (i actually like the fatigue bar where you cant fly forever), also removed the heroic difficulty, so essentially normal difficulty is the hard difficulty, and flex became the new normal, millions of players would resubscribe.

With connected realms being implemented, the issue of low pop servers is essentially a thing of the past, so pugging for flex wouldn't be an issue for the LFR crowd. And bringing back a sense of accomplishment to the game, as well as reduce ilvl inflation through 4 difficulties would really go far in many people's books.

I know these changes would see me back in the World of Warcraft in a heart beat.

What changes would bring you back to the game?

Tell me what hardcore game they left for. Which F2P P2W is it?

[Spargon]

I've been playing since BWL was current. Raided hardcore all through TBC and some of Wrath then as I got older I went more and more casual. I played in a dead guild all through Cata. For me LFR is great I still get to see raids, am I challenged at all? no sadly I can handle Heroic difficulty if I wanted but I made the choice not to alienate my family in friends when they called to do things because I had to be glued to my computer for the next 3-5 hours, now if someone calls oh im 23mins of 25mins in LFR queue..meh /log. TBC as an expansion was by FAR the worst of WoW's history my only fond memories were based on the PEOPLE I raided with and I don't mean community at large just my guildies. Content wise TBC was garbage the dungeons were stupid hours of grinding to get in then 2 hour dungeons? A dungeon should never take as long as a raid long =/= hard, you can put complex mechanics in a shorter run that skilled/geared people can maneuver in an efficient way but still be challenged.

I think MoP is the best WoW has ever been, the thing people miss from TBC was the illusions(delusions?) that as they stood gleaming and great in their raid gear in towns the collective unwashed masses off casuals would revel in awe of their greatness and go to bed dreaming of one day attaining said greatness. The reality is no one EVER cared maybe the rare person you too might go "WOW cool <insert shiny here>" but that's it. Back in TBC the illusion of difficulty with raids is there was minimal prestrat most guilds had to figure it out for themselves like the world first guys do now. I remember in SSC our MT having to gingerly ask a guild ahead of us in progression for tips on a boss we were stuck on because no one wanted to help "lesser guilds" real good server community there.. -

So to me when I hear a cry for TBC as a person who raided hardcore in TBC I would quit WoW because of that I have no desire to destroy my life spending every waking moment in a video game again that's for high school/college kids I'm 32 with a life and career now WoW is a hobby.

[Snuglz]

Sorry are you still crying about people experiencing your content? People playing LFR have worked to hit 90, acquire appropriate ilvl & learn tactics - What's your point again?

Oh.. so just bc you leveled your char to max level you deserve to see everything? We aren't going to agree in anyway lol.

Trust me though I get your point of view. You love the game and maybe do not have the time to put in the time I do (3 nights a week 4 hours) and yeah you want to experience killing garrosh. But I honestly don't think you should have to skip the reason for raiding which is getting together with a organized group of raiders and strategize and plan to take down the bosses rather than click your LFR button and boom your there without any effort and how dumbed down LFR is you don't need any type of organization. Get enough determination and eventually you will kill it.

Just ruins it honestly.. That is no way to experience the true epicness of the fights that are available. Makes it cheap and thrilless..To each their own I guess but raiding shouldn't not evolve into this mindless,pointless, disconnected from other players type of experience. I love the game too and respect what makes it raiding a truely awesome experience.

[Deleted]

If people want a challenge they can, unfortunately most don't

I experience the social experience in other areas. I could easily argue that people who don't RP are missing out

[Ferocity]

Remove LFR and Flying Mounts -> Game dies period.

/end thread.

[Silmeria99]

I was once a hardcore raider in Vanilla and TBC. Let's be fair, back in the day, it wasn't about how good you were but how much time you put into the game. There was no mechanics to the game, your rotation was one button, more people leveled than raided, gold was impossible to make and the list of pros and cons goes on. People played because the graphics were great at that time and there wasn't any other game out there that offered what WOW offered.

So why did WOW lose that many subscribers? I don't believe it's all because of LFR and flying mounts. Low graphics, the amount of good games out there, free to play vs pay to play, amount of content released, story isn't interesting enough for some, pandas, arenas, complexity of the game are all reasons why people would leave. We can also look at personal reasons such as not enough time, start of a family, new job, better things to do, other games.

As for the legendary, I have mixed feelings about it. Sure I want to be the only one to have it to look cool but at the same time it isn't fair if it's too limited. When I was hardcore, it was more the officers than the regular people who got the legendaries, which let's be honest, wasn't fair, because half the guild put in just as much time and effort. Building something like Atiesh, Valanyr and now the cloak is all about time, which takes effort. The effort is you logging in, playing your class the right way, and yes some so-called LFR Heroes do top dps, gem everything, enchant, learn their class and play the right way. I do feel cool having the cloak though and I feel like all the time I've put into this expansion was worth it.

There is no miracle way to bring back lost players and removing key features isn't the way to go in my opinion. Revamping the graphics, making the story super appealing and creating new main characters is the way to go. This game is meant for everyone and everyone is entitled to play the game to it's fullest. We all pay the same 15$ a month!

[Jaylock]

The problem with this reasoning (apart from the fact you have no figures to back up your imagination) is that there are FAR more "casual" players in WoW than there ever were "hardcore" players. I am sure there are players - possibly many players - that would love to have the game more grindy and less friendly than it is now, but I also believe they are in the minority.

The problem with your reasoning is that you dismiss the fact that near the end of TBC, the game had over 11 million players. This was in an era where the game was more "difficult" and "grindy." By the time TBC was over, the game was over 4 years old. It was not new at that point in time. The graphics were dated and old then as well compared to other games.

So what attracted all those players if the complaint among the general populace of players (to which you say are the casual players) was that the game is too hard? How come WoW peaked at 12 million subscribers? It cant be because they switched gears to a more raid friendly environment during WoTLK, because all those players were already there.

This is based only on your imagination that this is what would happen. I believe it is far more likely that some would resub - and then leave again. VERY few players left the game simply because it was getting less grindy. Most players who left the game left simply because they got tired of playing the same game they had played for 5+ years. Nothing odd about that, nothing REALLY that Blizzard can do to stop natural wastage of players moving on. A large number of WoW players grew up with this game, and what they liked at 13 they have moved on from now they are 18+ It's no real mystery.

How do you know millions of players WOULDN'T resubscribe? What if, just what if millions of players got fed up with the direction they have and are taking this game? (I know at least one person for sure) What if, just what if players who played in TBC saw how casual friendly they were making the game, and the fact that because they were making the game so easy to allow more players access to something they didn't really have an interest for, it diminished their accomplishments in the game? And furthermore, how do you know why a person decides to unsubscribe or not? Where is your authority on the matter???

Now this I can agree with, there will be more people to pug - but I personally don't really want to go back to the "Achie or no invite!" on all my alts etc. Im not saying it was hard to pug in wrath - it was actually easy once people got past that artificial barrier but that was a major pain. Of course, the account wide achievements make this much less of an issue so maybe it doesn't matter anymore.

The WoW community did that to themselves. Even the casual baddie Mc bad bad thinking hes better than he really is will do "yoi mus have full achiev or no invte!" Its up to the WoW community to solve that and change the tides. And if Flex becomes as popular as people are perceiving it to be, and its more along the lines of Naxx 2.0 difficulty, then many players (yes even the bad players who live in LFR) would be able to complete a real raid, and feel some sort of accomplishment, even if its a severely watered down version of the normal counterpart.

This is the thing.... you can only really speak for yourself, but the question Blizzard would be more interested in (on a larger scale than just you of course) is how long would you stay subscribed for? Will you REALLY enjoy this as much as you imagine?

The problem with this quote right here is your implied knee jerk reaction. Just like many of the other posters in this thread, you see a few things that tip you off to completely rejecting the ideas presented:

1) "Oh its a Jaylock thread, move along, nothing to see here" This dismissal attitude severely limits discussion. People think its not a serious topic and therefore will only post to flame me and try to get me infracted for trolling or whatever else they think the post is.

2) The knee jerk reaction of seeing something that they dont like, they automatically dismiss it even if they didn't know how it would affect the way the game plays out. If flying mounts were removed, how do you know that blizzard wouldn't compensate for that change in some way? How do you know or not that the gameplay would be much better in the new areas of an expansion without flying capability?

Nothing, I still play and have done so since 2006.

I'm glad you still find enjoyment out of the game. I don't anymore because of some of the ridiculous changes and "improvements" they have made to the game.

I will say one thing though. I went to my brother's house, and he still plays WoW religiously. I decided to get on one of his many 90 characters, and I decided to try out the timeless isle to see what this whole new "questing" hub was about. I maybe played it for a couple hours before it got stale. Is this really what this game has come to? A couple hours of entertainment with a full content patch? Rehashed raid environments, boss models etc.

[Snuglz]

If people want a challenge they can, unfortunately most don't

I experience the social experience in other areas. I could easily argue that people who don't RP are missing out

Raiding isnt suppose to be easy and should take a lil work. At minimum Flex even though I do not like how the gear is the exact same but thats a different topic. As far as RP I have only heard of how well connected your server becomes bc the point is to interact with others as if you were your char. In that sense I understand how much of rich social experience that can be. I would say this then. If they added a tool where you could click a button and then immediately put in a room/area or w/e with other people to RP together. Doesn't that kind of ruin the experience of it, when your suppose to go out and about on your own and use your own imagination to form an fun experience? Idk sounds a lil out there but do you get my point?

[Deleted]

REMOVE flying mounts?

Well that would be months of my life I've spent on this game actually wasted if that happened.

REMOVE LFR? I was never interested in raiding because of the amount of time and effort it took to get an at least decent group together, since LFR I personally (and some of my friends) have been happier with the game because we can raid and it hasn't been as stressful as it used to be. I have raided in the past and people were awful and caps yelling and all sorts, but for whatever reason LFR has been friendlier, possibly because you go in, take about half an hour then you're out again.

But don't get me wrong there are still the odd ragers, but overall no one talks they just get it done in my experience.

So if these things were in fact REMOVED .period. I would most likely leave/play a hell of a lot less. Mostly because I would be so pissed they got rid of my ability to ride my awesome netherdrakes and hippogryphs etc.

[Varabently]

Are you factoring in the millions who would unsub when LFR goes away? Personally, I agree with you, but sooo many people do LFR and would be lost without it.

Agree that 4 difficulties is silly.
Agree that flying is negative for the game.
Agree that Flex should be the new normal.

But your presupposing that you know why millions of people unsubscribed and that's just not information you or I have.

[Jaylock]

Remove LFR and Flying Mounts -> Game dies period.

/end thread.

And this is what i'm talking about as a knee jerk reaction. Its laughable that you actually think that. There are too many addicted and dependent people on this game to give it up simply if flying and lfr were removed from the game. You have no clue what would happen if this were to happen.