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  1. #521
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    they would drive more away from the game than they bring back.
    This.
    I know so many people that can't raid due to having RL stuff, so they just do LFR and they like it.
    As for flying mount, I love them. Don't see the point of travelling through the damn continent on a shitty 100% speed.

  2. #522
    Bloodsail Admiral Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The problem with your reasoning is that you dismiss the fact that near the end of TBC, the game had over 11 million players. This was in an era where the game was more "difficult" and "grindy." By the time TBC was over, the game was over 4 years old. It was not new at that point in time. The graphics were dated and old then as well compared to other games.
    No, just no. By the end of BC they had even removed most (if not all) of the key grinds - only one person for example even had to have the Kara key to get in, I remember doing The Eye and Hyjal with no attunment etc. There may have been some grind still in BC (I remember getting my Netherdrake and Netherrays for example) but it was MUCH less grindy than Vanilla had been.

    So what attracted all those players if the complaint among the general populace of players (to which you say are the casual players) was that the game is too hard? How come WoW peaked at 12 million subscribers? It cant be because they switched gears to a more raid friendly environment during WoTLK, because all those players were already there.
    In Vanilla wow was a great game and it drew millions of people to it. There was no real competition and that is one reason it did so well. It was easy to pick up and play even if it wasn't so easy to be great at it and required a lot of grind. In BC the grind was less, it was easier to level up multiple characters (by the end of BC I think I had at least 5 70s) and while still harder than Wrath it was a lot easier than Vanilla and offered a lot more. That attracted a lot of players. Then came wrath which is often (and I believe correctly) claimed to be the most casual friendly xpac. It was during the end of Wrath - when it was at its easiest - that WoW saw its biggest numbers.

    How do you know millions of players WOULDN'T resubscribe? What if, just what if millions of players got fed up with the direction they have and are taking this game? (I know at least one person for sure) What if, just what if players who played in TBC saw how casual friendly they were making the game, and the fact that because they were making the game so easy to allow more players access to something they didn't really have an interest for, it diminished their accomplishments in the game? And furthermore, how do you know why a person decides to unsubscribe or not? Where is your authority on the matter???
    You are right - I do not KNOW with certainty. However it is unreasonable to assume that people will not get bored playing the same game for several years. True, I haven't (well more so than originally - but I still play so not that much) but I also know many people who have stopped simply because they had other things going on and they had "been there, seen that" with wow. I have many many computer games from over the years - but most just gather dust in a cupboard. Why? Simply: I got bored of them. I do not KNOW with certainty that the majority left wow because they simply moved on - but it sounds a lot more reasonable to me than "They did something wrong - change it and they will flock back". I believe it would be a very bad choice for Blizzard to turn round and say... "You know what? We dont know for sure why these people left.... lets take a gamble on all the people that log in every day and change it to how it was before most of our current subs even played. Just in case we get people back". To answer your last question - I never meant to say anything with "authority" I was stating my reasonings for "believing" why people leave. I still believe that, and I do not need any authority to believe how I wish (just as you don't).

    The problem with this quote right here is your implied knee jerk reaction. Just like many of the other posters in this thread, you see a few things that tip you off to completely rejecting the ideas presented:

    1) "Oh its a Jaylock thread, move along, nothing to see here" This dismissal attitude severely limits discussion. People think its not a serious topic and therefore will only post to flame me and try to get me infracted for trolling or whatever else they think the post is.

    2) The knee jerk reaction of seeing something that they dont like, they automatically dismiss it even if they didn't know how it would affect the way the game plays out. If flying mounts were removed, how do you know that blizzard wouldn't compensate for that change in some way? How do you know or not that the gameplay would be much better in the new areas of an expansion without flying capability?
    I think this is YOUR knee-jerk reaction actually. I for one certainly do not think "Oh its a Jaylock thread". Personally I have no clue who you are, and do not really care either (I don't mean this in a bad way - I have no thoughts - good or bad about you as I do not know you). You going by the name Jaylock has no bearing on anything to me - so it is no "knee-jerk" to your thread.

    I also am not just seeing a suggestion I dont like and "automatically dismiss" it. I read your suggestion and reasoned why I didn't think it would work. Your rebuttal to my objections to your idea are met with questions like "how do you know blizzard wouldnt..." etc. I don't but I also have no reason to believe they would. You cannot successfully argue a point based on "what if something else I haven't suggested and have no basis for believing happened?"

    I'm glad you still find enjoyment out of the game. I don't anymore because of some of the ridiculous changes and "improvements" they have made to the game.

    I will say one thing though. I went to my brother's house, and he still plays WoW religiously. I decided to get on one of his many 90 characters, and I decided to try out the timeless isle to see what this whole new "questing" hub was about. I maybe played it for a couple hours before it got stale. Is this really what this game has come to? A couple hours of entertainment with a full content patch? Rehashed raid environments, boss models etc.
    I can't disagree with this and personally I am a little concerned with Blizzard saying they plan to use the timeless isle method more and more. I don't hate it, but it has got VERY stale already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by snuglz View Post
    We just need to recapture exploration into the game.
    No, we don't. Really. Exploration is something that is done ONCE. After that it's called commuting!
    Last edited by Cassidin; 2013-10-30 at 07:49 AM.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    How would you know that I was "even remotely close" without them trying the changes I've proposed? Simple answer: you don't. I know its anecdotal, but I personally know several people who would resub if LFR alone was removed from the game. And thats only one change.
    You people sure have a thing about this LFR. Tell me this. What has LFR done that has affected the regular/heoric raiding to point where it forced people to quit the game? Has it stopped people from raiding? Has it made it less accessable for you raiders? Has it affected gear drops?

    All LFR did was introduce an easier form of raiding for a group of people that would not have raided. It is easier so lesser skilled people can enjoy raiding in an easier form. It allowed people with restricted play time to raid without needing to commit to a raid schedule. It has done nothing, nothing in my knowledge that affected normal/heroic raiding. If anything, it improved it because Blizzard should no longer need to nerf the normal/heroic raiding.

    You guys are just unhappy that more people can raid so you are no longer that special snowflakes anymore. At least have the guts to admit to that than just go on and on complaining about a feature that has done nothing that affect raiding except your superior complex.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    You people sure have a thing about this LFR. Tell me this. What has LFR done that has affected the regular/heoric raiding to point where it forced people to quit the game? Has it stopped people from raiding? Has it made it less accessable for you raiders? Has it affected gear drops?
    Reading these threads, I'm given to understand that a lot of the bottom dropped out of recruiting for raid guilds after LFR was established, that the process of soliciting "applications" has largely gone by the wayside, etcetera. The fact of the matter is that most people don't like raiding or raiding guilds, and once there was an alternative means by which to at least see the content and get some gear, a certain burnt-out portion of the raiding community was willing to step down and take the lower ilvl just to avoid having to deal with the scene.

    So yeah, basically they're less special and they don't like it.

  5. #525
    you cant give players things in a game like this and then take it away ;p blizz have made every fukker in wow a lazy ass cunt,, if they take away the easy mode lazy ass options they've given us I think loads would cry and unsub.... probly.. ;p
    only thing I don't like about flying is flying in vanilla lands and major cities..
    LFR can rot and fukking die too. ;p

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by owain glyndwr View Post
    LFR can rot and fukking die too.
    You mean the people who purposely Q up for LFR to ruin everyone else's run can DIAF.

  7. #527
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallikiddd View Post
    You mean the people who purposely Q up for LFR to ruin everyone else's run can DIAF.
    Yesterday in ToT some hunter was verbally abusing the tank because he was "under geared" even though he was 488 ilevel in a raid tuned for 483 ilevel.

    There were no wipes. So he eventually ragequit when the group refused to kick the tank

    I was on my hunter, no legendary cloak or meta, less geared overall and still doing more DPS than him.

    Everybody expressed relief after he was gone.

    The fact is people would rather carry someone than raid with somebody who has a bug up their ass.

  8. #528
    You're lucky - this is usually the guy that pulls the next boss, pops Hero, *then* drops group. Or maybe thats what happened...

  9. #529
    The Lightbringer Beazy's Avatar
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    I know for a fact that every person I play with, including myself would unsub in a heart beat if they took away flying and LFR.

    The old "flying ruined the game" BS was old 3 months into BC, and its still sounds just as stupid. I pity the poor human that created this thread. WoW is dying because of its age. If you dont know that, youre a moron.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    You're lucky - this is usually the guy that pulls the next boss, pops Hero, *then* drops group. Or maybe thats what happened...
    people like that should get tracked down and get a sound beating.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I know for a fact that every person I play with, including myself would unsub in a heart beat if they took away flying and LFR.

    The old "flying ruined the game" BS was old 3 months into BC, and its still sounds just as stupid. I pity the poor human that created this thread. WoW is dying because of its age. If you dont know that, youre a moron.
    I just don't understand why everyone wants to bypass everything with ease. They want to get to point A, be it a reward or destination, without any time.

    There's no game at that point and you find yourself wondering why pay a monthly sub if you've done everything already.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    I just don't understand why everyone wants to bypass everything with ease. They want to get to point A, be it a reward or destination, without any time.

    There's no game at that point and you find yourself wondering why pay a monthly sub if you've done everything already.
    Why is it so hard to understand? It is relative. Some people enjoy extreme challenges. Some prefer easier challenges. Different people, different skill sets.

    We are all different people playing a game that tries to cater for all yet some people want to make the game that just fit their peferences and not accept others.

  13. #533
    It's called progress.
    Deal with it.

    Or perish!
    Because if they start removing features, FEATURES. I'll be cancelling my subscription for sure.

    Now listen carefully, LFR adds a easier mode to raids, you can still do raids like you did in the old days.

    You are just pissed off because you can't go around feeling you are somebody special, *cough* 0,2% *cough* and go around fuck with the 98% player base. Heh.

    -- Did we need a new topic for this? It's already 10000000x

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Doubt it, they've changed the game waaay too much. Its not really WoW anymore, its a new game imo.



    They completely are. How many people do you see riding horseback to the store in daily life? As technology advances, so too does the world advance with it. This is very much the same in WoW.
    But...they're not. Tell me HOW it is mandatory? I mean is it really mandatory for me to for example to go from the X-Roads to Org on my flying mount? People ride horse back today because it is more convenient and faster, not because it isn't mandatory, same with WoW. I lived fine without a car and horse for years and still worked.
    Last edited by Theendgamelv3; 2013-10-30 at 10:47 PM.

  15. #535
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    The reality of the situation is that most "vets" of this game have simply moved on - they have full time jobs, families - hell, that's what happened to my brother who was in one of the top 20 European guilds. Older players quit largely for this reason because they're - yep, you guessed it - older..

    And what about Blizzard's own data? "less engagement from casual players" not to mention complaint after complaint from LFR players about how broken it is. Did we mention the Asian problem? The Asian market is much more volatile especially in the PRC as you should know. WoW has suffered on the Asian market make no mistake. So why don't you just be honest and tell us what you're thinking? That Blizzard are big fat liars, right? :S

    I don't care about flying mounts as I am a PvE server player...if PvPer's want them removed on PvP servers *only* then that's fine by me.

    And you bought a Blizzon ticket? I'm pretty sure you could of spent that money on something better. Season ticket maybe? :P Something you enjoy..?

    Yes you see I have nothing personal against you, but when it comes to the topic of this thread... /: And I find your disdain for the casual community to be pretty ridiculous. You clearly know nothing about this community or about how diverse it is.
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  16. #536
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    You're lucky - this is usually the guy that pulls the next boss, pops Hero, *then* drops group. Or maybe thats what happened...
    Well there was a different hunter ninja pulling every boss.

    And people dosing before the tanks decided if they were just going to let everybody die for being a holes or not.

    An overgeared shadowpriest ended up tankong Horridon down to about 35% before one of them was able to get aggro.


    It's the impatient "experts" that cause all the havoc in lfr.

    For example a different group spent like 20 minutes dealing with the Magehera trash because the expert tanks kept running ahead to skip it all and not dealing with body pulls.

    If the group had just cleared the damn trash we could have saved most of that 20 minutes.

  17. #537
    Wait. Was this really an actual statement posited in this thread? "Get rid of LFR and flying mounts and millions of people would subscribe or resubscribe to WoW"? Someone thinks this? FOR REAL!? I'm... stunned... by the lack of logic.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I think many people underestimate just how many older players who have quit because the game got too casual friendly, would actually resubscribe making a few TBC esque changes to the game.

    If the developers removed LFR, and flying mounts from the game (i actually like the fatigue bar where you cant fly forever), also removed the heroic difficulty, so essentially normal difficulty is the hard difficulty, and flex became the new normal, millions of players would resubscribe.

    With connected realms being implemented, the issue of low pop servers is essentially a thing of the past, so pugging for flex wouldn't be an issue for the LFR crowd. And bringing back a sense of accomplishment to the game, as well as reduce ilvl inflation through 4 difficulties would really go far in many people's books.

    I know these changes would see me back in the World of Warcraft in a heart beat.

    What changes would bring you back to the game?
    No offense but that's just ignorant thinking. Your first mistake is assuming that people who quit did so because of the reasons you listed. I can assure you that while some did yes, it definitely wasn't the majority. If a single change sparked such a great exodus of millions of people from the sub base, do you REALLY think Blizzard would have kept it in? Absolutely not. They don't always make the best choices, but they aren't inept.

    Your second mistake is assuming that even if people did come back, people wouldn't leave. I would probably quit WoW if they took out flying mounts and LFR. I use LFR almost daily, and my flying mount is my #1 mode of transportation. I don't even know what you're on about with this flying mount thing. Flying mounts have been in since BC, and the majority of players have loved them, no one i have ever known (7 year veteran here) has ever had a complaint about a flying mount..? no. Just no.

    People might come back, but that number would be vastly inferior to the amount of newly disgruntled users who will NOW leave because of the idiotic changes you've proposed, and I'd be one of them. People have quit WoW, but you're so easy to associate the blame as to why. When in fact it usually just comes down to finances, boredom, or people moving on and finding something else to do with their time, nothing more.
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  19. #539
    No.

    That's really all I can say... Just, no.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I think many people underestimate just how many older players who have quit because the game got too casual friendly, would actually resubscribe making a few TBC esque changes to the game.

    If the developers removed LFR, and flying mounts from the game (i actually like the fatigue bar where you cant fly forever), also removed the heroic difficulty, so essentially normal difficulty is the hard difficulty, and flex became the new normal, millions of players would resubscribe.

    With connected realms being implemented, the issue of low pop servers is essentially a thing of the past, so pugging for flex wouldn't be an issue for the LFR crowd. And bringing back a sense of accomplishment to the game, as well as reduce ilvl inflation through 4 difficulties would really go far in many people's books.

    I know these changes would see me back in the World of Warcraft in a heart beat.

    What changes would bring you back to the game?
    Just going to say this.

    Biased nonsense.

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