1. #1

    2h frost - strength vs. critical strike

    With 5.4 we have had several changes that significantly reduced the value of additional haste past ~5-7k in heroic gear. Mastery is somewhat limited in value for 2h due to its attack priorities. That places critical strike as the most valuable secondary, which despite being devalued by KM, I can accept. What seems strange to me is the jump in crits value above strength (gem wise). Until late 5.3 I had never run across any simulation which placed critical strike above strength for 2h frost (again, gem wise). Now with the new simulations in 5.4 crit is suddenly well above strength in most situations, which would seem to indicate a reduced scaling effect of strength. Granted obliterate and frost strike are weapon damage based and not AP based, making strength's contribution limited to the AP component of weapon damage scaling, but I do have a hard time believing an item level jump from ~543 to ~574 would see such a large increase in crit scaling and/or a decrease in strength scaling. I have yet to see any skilled DK gemming strength and I haven't had an opportunity to compare strenght gemming to crit gemming in a raid in weeks (offtanking at the moment), but I find myself questioning the accuracy of our simulations.

  2. #2
    http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=thok%27s+tail+tip
    has a large part to do with it.

    also, it's not that crit outscales str, it's that 2x crit > 1 str.
    Last edited by bals; 2013-11-07 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Forgettable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    1,751
    This is just the way scaling works. Once we've reached a certain amount of base stats (STR) which increase our damage linearly, the stats that increase our damage based on percentages (Haste/Crit/Mastery - In this case Crit) win out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Yells's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Korea
    Posts
    477
    I dont really get it either. At the moment I'm using str-crit gems in my yellow slots but I cant bring myself to gem crit. And sites like akmrobot are saying I should gem expertise-crit that just seems silly to me. 160str is 320ap that seems like it should be better than 300 crit to me. I've even seen guys geming full yellow gems in red slots. It just looks and feels wrong.

  5. #5
    I am reforging for Crit > Mastery and I am uses either straight crit gems for yellow sockets or the orange strength + crit gems.

    P.S. I'm still waiting for two good 1H weapons to drop so I can switch to dual wield as it is my preferred playstyle.

  6. #6
    I've seen this question pop up a few times so i'll make this post a thought experiment on the scaling of secondaries vs the scaling of strength. Note that the formulas I use may not be entirely accurate. Raidbuffs like 10% attack power, 5% strength and other percentage increases make this more complicated so for this example I will ignore them.

    Here is the howling blast formula afiak

    Damage = (1.16*(573+ (AP*.738)))

    So lets throw out some numbers.

    At 100,000 AP howling blast deals 86272.68 damage before mastery and damage increasing buffs and debuffs like elements.
    At 110,000 AP howling blast deals 94833.48 damage before mastery/buffs

    This ends up being a roughly 10% increase in damage for a 10% increase in attack power.

    Assuming no buffs like I mentioned above, in order to get a 10% increase, it takes 5,000 strength to achieve this.
    What about if you used mastery? At level 90 for every 300 points of mastery, you gain 1% frost damage so at 100,000 AP, it would take 3,000 mastery to gain the same effect as 5000 strength. Mastery is clearly a winner here.


    Now this is only one spell but here is where it gets interesting.

    At 20,000 AP howling blast deals 17786.28 damage before mastery/buffs
    At 22,000 AP, howling blast deals 19498.44 damage before mastery/buffs.

    Again this is roughly a 10% increase in damage for 10% increase in attack power and it takes a total of 1,000 strength to get this.
    However this time to get 10% increase by using mastery, it still takes 3,000 rating.

    This may seem obvious, at lower gear levels, percentage based increases like mastery are less effective than raw increasing attributes but this needs to be applied to crit as well!

    Think about crit like this, Since attacks crit for double, at 100% crit you are essentially doing double damage compared to if you are not able to crit at all. At 50% crit, you are doing 100% more damage, 50% of the time, for 50% increase in damage.

    The key here is to think of crit as a percentage increase just as you would mastery. Haste? Haste is interesting. On one hand you can have too much because at some point, you are unable to spend all your resources in an allotment of time. On the other hand, having lots at higher gear levels "should" be good right? The difference between haste and mastery/crit/strength is that having more haste does not increase the damage of one global for us so comparing them in this way would be...difficult.

    But what I can tell you about haste is that using PL has drastic impacts on the value of haste. Sim it for yourself and see the difference, 2 runes every 30 seconds is quite big in the long run!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •