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  1. #1

    Blizz on a fixing frenzy ! (Q time, blood dk, TCCY)

    I honestly have to say I'm shocked at blizzard's performence lately.

    They have just hotfixed blood dks in arena and the long Qs.
    They also got rid of the endless boring games, first with a bad mechanic TCCY yes, but
    the new dampening is really good.

    I'm impressed...

    I'm not saying that those we're the only issues.
    A few more things needed in my personal opinion:
    -reduce the cc spells and dont make any cc spammable like poly/fear/mc/etc
    -reduce dks overall dmg
    -reduce wars overall dmg and burst and also do somethng about their ability to stop
    casts forever charge pmmel disrupting fear charge again pummel again...
    The same goes for dks actually, mindfreeze stun petstun grip grip mindfreeze again (combined with ams and lich..)
    -reduce mage burst, maybe buff overall dmg a bit
    (the only thing that happened with the new mastery is that instead of deep+bolt+lance+lance
    they now do the same dmg with deep lance lance lance, nothing changed)
    -increase ret defensive cooldowns
    -buff moonkin dmg, nerf hotw
    -reduce enhance burst, buff overall dmg
    -nerf affli multidot pressure somehow but make haunt and malific stronger again
    for some single target dmg
    -nerf rshams healing a bit and increase the cd on tremor/grounding
    -remove rogue poisen stun, buff recuperate
    -buff aspect of the ironhawk again for hunters, seems like we always train the hunter because
    they take so much dmg, same when im playing my hunter I always get trained to sht.
    -tone down feral and windwalker mobility, and increase WW's cd on karma.

    All other things that are wrong imo are all based on the first line I mentioned about the amount of cc
    Like holy paladins and healer priests pushing that much cc etc.

    Note: These are just my personal opinions of how the game can be further balanced/improved.
    If you dont agree thats fine, just tell me why you dont agree with it, no need to rage

  2. #2
    dampening is shit, makes stealthers who get feared into shadow sight die

    happened twice to me already :x

    edit: yes, i'm surprised that they decided to do some hotfixes and not just "next expansion will fix it"

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by zykaz View Post
    dampening is shit, makes stealthers who get feared into shadow sight die

    happened twice to me already :x
    Can you elaborate on this ?
    And I dont think the shadow sight adjustment has anythng to do with dampening directly.
    The dampening is what it is to prevent long games.
    The shadow sight adjustment was to prevent stealth classes abusing this mechanic.
    In the past a double rogue team for instance could stay in stealth, when the sight popped out
    they would grab them both and vanish instantly... This behavior could be exploited even more with the
    dampening change, double rogue could wait for 50% healing reduction (taking the shadow sights in between and insta vanishing)
    and then kill somethng.
    The previous state of shadow sight was that it broke stealth, but didnt prevent it, making vanish such a perfect spell to abuse it.
    Now they are also preventing stealth during the sight buff to prevent this.

    So actually blizzard thought about the consequences of a fix before they applied it and made the neccassary
    changes, so thats actually amazing.

    Now about your post, you say that you get feared into the sight and that makes you die...
    Yes if you happen to be in stealth when the sight is up and if you happen to stand next to an aoe fear class and close
    to the sight and if you happen to get super randomly feared straight into the sight, then yes it will break and prevent stealth.
    This doesnt seem like a real issue that needs fixing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by biggischkris View Post
    A few more things needed in my personal opinion:
    -reduce the cc spells and dont make any cc spammable like poly/fear/mc/etc
    -reduce dks overall dmg
    -reduce wars overall dmg and burst and also do somethng about their ability to stop
    casts forever charge pmmel disrupting fear charge again pummel again...
    The same goes for dks actually, mindfreeze stun petstun grip grip mindfreeze again (combined with ams and lich..)
    -reduce mage burst, maybe buff overall dmg a bit
    (the only thing that happened with the new mastery is that instead of deep+bolt+lance+lance
    they now do the same dmg with deep lance lance lance, nothing changed)
    -increase ret defensive cooldowns
    -buff moonkin dmg, nerf hotw
    -reduce enhance burst, buff overall dmg
    -nerf affli multidot pressure somehow but make haunt and malific stronger again
    for some single target dmg
    -nerf rshams healing a bit and increase the cd on tremor/grounding
    -remove rogue poisen stun, buff recuperate
    -buff aspect of the ironhawk again for hunters, seems like we always train the hunter because
    they take so much dmg, same when im playing my hunter I always get trained to sht.
    -tone down feral and windwalker mobility, and increase WW's cd on karma.
    Thankfully you don't work for Blizzard. Some of these are horrible ideas.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    Thankfully you don't work for Blizzard. Some of these are horrible ideas.
    Well that amount of specificity is very constructive.
    Can you give me an example of what the horrible ideas are and why you think its horrible ?

    thx

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by biggischkris View Post
    Well that amount of specificity is very constructive.
    Can you give me an example of what the horrible ideas are and why you think its horrible ?

    thx
    Why should I be more specific when you aren't?

    You say decrease X but improve Y in a variety of different points you are trying to make.

    That's like saying "Rain is too wet. I wish rain was more dry. Let's improve rain by making it less wet." It makes no sense, much like your points.

    You keep saying to decrease burst but improve sustained damage for quite a few classes, but offer exactly zero solutions. You also say "adjust this or adjust that, tone this down, etc" but offer no intelligent feedback on how or why. It's just another useless post from a wannabe armchair developer. A lot of half assed ideas that really don't amount to much.

    Sorry to be harsh, but there's no value or anything even remotely interesting in anything you suggested.
    Last edited by Coldhearth; 2013-10-26 at 11:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    >reduce the cc spells and dont make any cc spammable like poly/fear/mc/etc
    NO Never mid season and that wont happen until next expansion.
    >reduce dks overall dmg
    They have high damage because of their low survivability.
    reduce wars overall dmg and burst and also do somethng about their ability to stop casts forever charge pmmel disrupting fear charge again pummel again... -
    Since this is in the PvP Forum - L2P if getting interrupted that much. If they are not fakecasting - than they deserve to get interupted. Skilled people dont have this issue.
    >The same goes for dks actually, mindfreeze stun petstun grip grip mindfreeze again (combined with ams and lich..)
    Same goes here.
    >reduce mage burst, maybe buff overall dmg a bit
    (the only thing that happened with the new mastery is that instead of deep+bolt+lance+lance they now do the same dmg with deep lance lance lance, nothing changed)
    Mages have few defensives, they are in a good spot now, not the top by any means.
    >increase ret defensive cooldowns -
    would mean nerfing their offhealing and that was already tried - people stopped playing paladin
    >buff moonkin dmg, nerf hotw
    Moonkins are pumping out crazy damage for AOE and single target. what spec for the HoTW nerf? cant really nerf it cause its a talent (level 90 one at that). Its meant to be strong.
    >reduce enhance burst, buff overall dmg
    Was already done. See enh notes probably 3 weeks ago iirc.
    -nerf affli multidot pressure somehow but make haunt and malific stronger again for some single target dmg
    You must not play affi lock - cause they were HORRIBLE for most 5.2 and 5.3. They are fine now, just need to know how to control them. and haunt did get a buff recently
    >nerf rshams healing a bit and increase the cd on tremor/grounding -
    Tremor is annoying, but that is a defensive ability - and rshamans have very little of that. Their healing output is fine, if they are doing that much healing then you are not controlling enough. Any healer will heal a lot of you let them.
    >remove rogue poisen stun, buff recuperate - noooo. just nooooooooooo
    >buff aspect of the ironhawk again for hunters, seems like we always train the hunter because -
    they take so much dmg, same when im playing my hunter I always get trained to sht.
    Will never happen. they ALREADY have a SHIT TON of demensive/escape abilities.
    >tone down feral and windwalker mobility, and increase WW's cd on karma.
    ToK is one of the few defensives WW has. can be easily dealt with. As for feral - their damage is manageable = not too high/low.


    Most of these issues arent things that need to be fixed with the game. These sound like personal frustrations. I myself do not have the issues mentioned above. If it is a skill issue, it will take practice, but calling for nerfs for issues this small and nonspecific wont really lead to anything...


    PS: Yes I love the new dampening.
    Last edited by Avada Kedavra; 2013-10-26 at 11:40 AM.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    Why should I be more specific when you aren't?
    You say decrease X but improve Y in a variety of different points you are trying to make.
    That's like saying "Rain is too wet. I wish rain was more dry. Let's improve rain by making it less wet." It makes no sense, much like your points.
    I dont even understand how you can get confused when I say 'nerf X and buff Y', you say thats like saying 'rain is too wet'.
    What planet are you from?
    If some spec in the game has too high burst but too low sustained dmg, then its perfectly normal to
    suggest to buff their sustained and nerf the burst to make them more balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    You keep saying to decrease burst but improve sustained damage for quite a few classes, but offer exactly zero solutions. You also say "adjust this or adjust that, tone this down, etc" but offer no intelligent feedback on how or why.
    So its too hard to understand 'nerf warrior burst' ? Do I have to mention individual spells and the percentage I want to see them nerfed ?
    I just dont want to get into an argument about each spell individually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    It's just another useless post from a wannabe armchair developer. A lot of half assed ideas that really don't amount to much.
    Sorry to be harsh, but there's no value or anything even remotely interesting in anything you suggested.
    After taking a quick look at your other forum posts and replies its obvious you are just here to flame people on the internet.
    Why dont you grow up and either post a serious and argumented opinion or just stop posting.
    Last edited by biggischkris; 2013-10-27 at 01:48 PM.

  9. #9
    What Blizzard needs to do is dont let PvP-changes affect classes in PvE.

  10. #10
    Meanwhile warriors are still op and hot fixes they are doing is pretty useless, great season so far shows how much they care about fixing classes in pvp

  11. #11
    Pit Lord DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zykaz View Post
    dampening is shit, makes stealthers who get feared into shadow sight die

    happened twice to me already :x

    edit: yes, i'm surprised that they decided to do some hotfixes and not just "next expansion will fix it"
    thats a positioning problem you need to deal with on your own.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

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  12. #12
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    -nerf affli multidot pressure somehow but make haunt and malific stronger again
    for some single target dmg
    You don't get the idea how affliction works. Pressure is supposed to be high with an emphasis on building dots. MG and SB:SS is the worst thing to ever hit affliction PvP.

    Affliction had a damn fine single target mechanism back in cata without screwing the multidot, it was the mop changes that made aff more single target friendly which was never the point of the spec. And they made the spec retard-friendly ofc with the autopilot mode.

    -reduce the cc spells and dont make any cc spammable like poly/fear/mc/etc
    spamable fear is all what locks were/are about. For a spec (affliction) that is based around control it is probably the most valuable tool. If anything around that issue is dumb then it is the new talent tree that gives you a stun AND the new dispel system which did more damage then good to the game.
    Last edited by Naztrak; 2013-10-27 at 04:14 PM.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    >reduce the cc spells and dont make any cc spammable like poly/fear/mc/etc
    NO Never mid season and that wont happen until next expansion.
    >reduce dks overall dmg
    They have high damage because of their low survivability.
    reduce wars overall dmg and burst and also do somethng about their ability to stop casts forever charge pmmel disrupting fear charge again pummel again... -
    Since this is in the PvP Forum - L2P if getting interrupted that much. If they are not fakecasting - than they deserve to get interupted. Skilled people dont have this issue.
    >The same goes for dks actually, mindfreeze stun petstun grip grip mindfreeze again (combined with ams and lich..)
    Same goes here.
    >reduce mage burst, maybe buff overall dmg a bit
    (the only thing that happened with the new mastery is that instead of deep+bolt+lance+lance they now do the same dmg with deep lance lance lance, nothing changed)
    Mages have few defensives, they are in a good spot now, not the top by any means.
    >increase ret defensive cooldowns -
    would mean nerfing their offhealing and that was already tried - people stopped playing paladin
    >buff moonkin dmg, nerf hotw
    Moonkins are pumping out crazy damage for AOE and single target. what spec for the HoTW nerf? cant really nerf it cause its a talent (level 90 one at that). Its meant to be strong.
    >reduce enhance burst, buff overall dmg
    Was already done. See enh notes probably 3 weeks ago iirc.
    -nerf affli multidot pressure somehow but make haunt and malific stronger again for some single target dmg
    You must not play affi lock - cause they were HORRIBLE for most 5.2 and 5.3. They are fine now, just need to know how to control them. and haunt did get a buff recently
    >nerf rshams healing a bit and increase the cd on tremor/grounding -
    Tremor is annoying, but that is a defensive ability - and rshamans have very little of that. Their healing output is fine, if they are doing that much healing then you are not controlling enough. Any healer will heal a lot of you let them.
    >remove rogue poisen stun, buff recuperate - noooo. just nooooooooooo
    >buff aspect of the ironhawk again for hunters, seems like we always train the hunter because -
    they take so much dmg, same when im playing my hunter I always get trained to sht.
    Will never happen. they ALREADY have a SHIT TON of demensive/escape abilities.
    >tone down feral and windwalker mobility, and increase WW's cd on karma.
    ToK is one of the few defensives WW has. can be easily dealt with. As for feral - their damage is manageable = not too high/low.


    Most of these issues arent things that need to be fixed with the game. These sound like personal frustrations. I myself do not have the issues mentioned above. If it is a skill issue, it will take practice, but calling for nerfs for issues this small and nonspecific wont really lead to anything...


    PS: Yes I love the new dampening.
    I agree with a lot of your points, but mage burst is far too high and more importantly far too easy to get off, and you're just plain delusional (or a highly biased warrior player?)if you think the amount of anti-caster lockdown people are experiencing from warriors is a L2P issue. Same with dks. There's a reason classes that are required to hardcast spells (shadowpriest?) aren't seen often anymore.

    If you don't believe me, breeze on over to Arena Junkies and read all the top players complaining about it.
    Last edited by Dookles; 2013-10-28 at 07:06 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    reduce wars overall dmg and burst and also do somethng about their ability to stop casts forever charge pmmel disrupting fear charge again pummel again... -
    Since this is in the PvP Forum - L2P if getting interrupted that much. If they are not fakecasting - than they deserve to get interupted. Skilled people dont have this issue.
    A lot of your points are good, I just want to pick up on this one. High rated players have just as much problems with Warriors as low rated players. It's easy to say "just fake the kicks", but what a lot of people seem to forget is that at these higher ratings people don't get faked as easily. You leave a deep freeze->blanket CS and you're on 20% with a Warrior on your ass, you've got to fake both pummel and disrupting shout before being able to cast a heal on yourself. For the most part, it's impossible. Even if you fake pummel with your first fake and get disrupting with your second, when hardcasting your third you'll either die doing it or eat a DR'd stun, fear or charge stun - and that's assuming that a high rated warrior is going to get faked back to back... a lot of players actually 'hold' their interrupts just so people keep faking until they die.

    Skilled healers can survive bad warriors easily, but skilled healers surviving skilled warriors is not as easy. What I will give you is that your partners at higher ratings will be much more efficient at peeling and keeping the Warrior off you.


    OT: I think Blizzard are working a lot more on PvP because they've realized that maybe the people who are playing Arena and Battlegrounds need very little actual content to continue playing. So in a few years to come, when X5 (and maybe X6?) have been released and the final content patch is pushed out, everybody who plays this game for raiding content, gear upgrades, quests, pets, new achievements, will all quit. PvPers on the other hand just need a permanent functioning arena system and some sort of Arena ladder with seasons and they will continue playing as long as servers stay up.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    thats a positioning problem you need to deal with on your own.
    Can you plz then enlighten us on how exacly does position have anything to do with the direction you move while feared. Or even better, plz do share how exacly you predict direction in which your char will move when feared.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    Can you plz then enlighten us on how exacly does position have anything to do with the direction you move while feared. Or even better, plz do share how exacly you predict direction in which your char will move when feared.
    Don't get feared in the first place. You missed the point.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    Regarding Snuggli's touching on War, a good illustration is made here, which I saw a week or so ago. Now imagine doing that while you or your partner is dying to their teammate in 3s.
    http://www.twitch.tv/batenx/c/3049717

    OT: I like that they took out Crowd Chooses but I haven't had enough time to play this week to get a feel for dampening. Only had 1 game that hit that so far (Enh/Hpal vs Hunter/RDruid), and it just didn't seem to affect much even as it stacked higher. Granted it's still much better than TCCY, as my paladin had dropped to sub 10% playing aggressively and I'd only gotten the hunter to ~20.

    Also, blood worms seem to be the bigger problem for blood DK healing than Death strike. I honestly don't know why they don't just disable tank specs from queueing arena; nothing good has ever come from it (Prot healadins in Wrath, Prot-DPS-adins in Wrath, Prot Warriors in Wrath).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kals View Post
    OT: I like that they took out Crowd Chooses but I haven't had enough time to play this week to get a feel for dampening. Only had 1 game that hit that so far (Enh/Hpal vs Hunter/RDruid), and it just didn't seem to affect much even as it stacked higher. Granted it's still much better than TCCY, as my paladin had dropped to sub 10% playing aggressively and I'd only gotten the hunter to ~20.

    Also, blood worms seem to be the bigger problem for blood DK healing than Death strike. I honestly don't know why they don't just disable tank specs from queueing arena; nothing good has ever come from it (Prot healadins in Wrath, Prot-DPS-adins in Wrath, Prot Warriors in Wrath).
    The TCCY change is pretty good. I didn't encounter a lot of games that led to TCCY but every time I did, I lost because of it. Most of those times I felt like I was absolutely running train on a team but they happened to have a good burst phase which led to their eventual victory. Now in situations like that, after 10 minutes, the consistent pressure that I can put out will result in a win for me, and not the team that got one lucky string of crits over a 15 min period.

    I agree on the other point as well. Tank specs ruin the fun for anyone playing against them and I seriously think that a lot more people would be happy with them completely removed from arena.

  19. #19
    New changes are actually good. Dampening is far far better than TCCY. So far I've actually had all games (3 since hotfix) that went past 15 min into draws as we were evenly matched and I honestly didn't mind losing points for it either. I'd much rather that than the TCCY bullshit. Can't describe how good it is they got rid of it.

    Blood nerf was also needed, good fix. If they further reduce all damage Tanks do by 50% or increase battle fatigue for tank specs by 25% that would help even more. Not that tanks are a big issue with the blood nerfs, but it just eliminates the problem altogether.

    Haven't really noticed a buff in queue times, but will have to do more to see.

    They just need a few minor tweaks to warriors and we're looking good:

    - MSR replaces Spell Reflect
    - Bladestorm can be disarmed, but cooldown is lowered.
    - Visible buff showing warrior stances (so we know when in defensive, etc) like DK presences
    - Rage is lost on swapping stances

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    A lot of your points are good, I just want to pick up on this one. High rated players have just as much problems with Warriors as low rated players. It's easy to say "just fake the kicks", but what a lot of people seem to forget is that at these higher ratings people don't get faked as easily. You leave a deep freeze->blanket CS and you're on 20% with a Warrior on your ass, you've got to fake both pummel and disrupting shout before being able to cast a heal on yourself. For the most part, it's impossible. Even if you fake pummel with your first fake and get disrupting with your second, when hardcasting your third you'll either die doing it or eat a DR'd stun, fear or charge stun - and that's assuming that a high rated warrior is going to get faked back to back... a lot of players actually 'hold' their interrupts just so people keep faking until they die.

    Skilled healers can survive bad warriors easily, but skilled healers surviving skilled warriors is not as easy. What I will give you is that your partners at higher ratings will be much more efficient at peeling and keeping the Warrior off you.


    OT: I think Blizzard are working a lot more on PvP because they've realized that maybe the people who are playing Arena and Battlegrounds need very little actual content to continue playing. So in a few years to come, when X5 (and maybe X6?) have been released and the final content patch is pushed out, everybody who plays this game for raiding content, gear upgrades, quests, pets, new achievements, will all quit. PvPers on the other hand just need a permanent functioning arena system and some sort of Arena ladder with seasons and they will continue playing as long as servers stay up.
    Late reply. I agree that warriors are a bit OP, and yes interupts will happen.... sometimes more than I'd like. I use GladiatorlosSA so i hear ever time they use a interrupt. I fake more interupts than they land successfully. I am also playing a MW, so I have heals I can use if I am interrupted so it is not as detrimental than say a priest or rdruid. (chi torpedo, SCK mainly, plus if I am interrupted Ill call it out and my partner will run through my healing orbs that I shit on ground all over the place)
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