1. #1

    Question Malkorok - healing meters terribly off?

    Hello, aren't monk's and holy priest's heals somehow counted double on Malkorok (25H)?
    /reports/rt-ftb43xfp1m56qe7a/sum/healingDone/?s=1150&e=8200 (I am not allowed to post the url)
    I know different fights favour different classes, but our healers are usually much more even - and sice few times we actually wiped because of not enough heals (second Blood Rage), I am trying to find out what is going on. And the logs feel very wrong.
    Thanks for input.

  2. #2
    Ancient Miasma absorbs all healing and creates a shield, thus there's no overhealing in P1 (in the sense the combat log reports).
    Even if a persons shield is full, healing done to that target would still count as 100% effective in logs.

  3. #3
    i can be wrong, but my prime healer in guild say that, if all people in the raid have 100% hp and green shields, all smarts heal will heal pets. If some1 lost shield and get some dmg, all smarts heal will try to heal him even if he has green shield. This makes problem for szamans to heal this fight (you have 2) and this can be your healing problem.

  4. #4
    So, the priest and the monk were just spamming heals like there is no tomorrow, with high overheal, while the rest were only reacting as they should be?

  5. #5
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    Actually spamming that fight > "reacting as they should be"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Blastfizzle View Post
    So, the priest and the monk were just spamming heals like there is no tomorrow, with high overheal, while the rest were only reacting as they should be?
    Yeah, Malkorok done right.
    Holy priest mastery is OP there because you can spam like there is no tomorrow, and make the fight easier for everyone else... instead of stacking overheal like in every other fight
    'Monogamy'? Is that one of the ways people in Boringland bore each other?
    -Curvy

  7. #7
    Do not look at healing meters for that fight. There is no overheal even when healing people that have a full shield, so there is no way to tell what healing was effective and what was overheal. So even though most of that spamming probably was overheal, there is no way to tell.

    What you can see is that smart heals don't target players that have a green shield but land on pets instead (giving 100% overheal). This really means that smart heals (like CoH, WG) are considerably worse than usual on this fight.

    And FYI 300k+ HPS is quite normal for that fight in 25 man. Only shamans have a hard time getting there.

  8. #8
    Hi im the druid healer on those logs.

    I dont think the logs are faulty its just its my offspec which is a full 20 ilvls lower then the priest/monk with poor trinkets and my weapon is only flex quality.

    Bottom line is i have mana issues on that fight and i was trying to heal smartly rather then heal everything as much as i can. Which is a fair numbers increase but not much use for actually killing the boss when im oom by 2nd smash

    I seem to mostly settle at about 240-260k with comfortable mana - i can push closer to 300k but seemed risky.

    Mainly i was trying to heal those with the weaker shields and use my Lucidity procs to spread rejuvs around with wildgrowth mostly on cooldown. (Also i had a set time to use tranq which was after the 1st blood rage so most the wipes i didnt do it at all or only got 1 off in 5 min etc)
    Last edited by Makrar; 2013-10-30 at 10:38 AM.

  9. #9
    The Patient Leefa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    Only shamans have a hard time getting there.
    Paladins have a even harder time getting there.
    Tank dies = Maybe healer's fault
    Healer dies = Tank's fault
    DPS dies = Their own bloody fault

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leefa View Post
    Paladins have a even harder time getting there.
    In our last kill, our paladin did 260k HPS, this is in 10 man. So should be no problem to get to 300k in 25.

    Eternal Flame seems pretty OP on Malkorok.

  11. #11
    The Patient Leefa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    In our last kill, our paladin did 260k HPS, this is in 10 man. So should be no problem to get to 300k in 25.

    Eternal Flame seems pretty OP on Malkorok.
    Except all the healing is sniped by mainly monks and priests and to some extend druids and shamans. I was benched on him during progress cause of that.
    Tank dies = Maybe healer's fault
    Healer dies = Tank's fault
    DPS dies = Their own bloody fault

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leefa View Post
    Except all the healing is sniped by mainly monks and priests and to some extend druids and shamans. I was benched on him during progress cause of that.
    There is no sniping heals on Malkorok. Read my previous post. WoL is reporting what you put out on players, not what actually heals them.

    If your HPS numbers are low, you need to heal more. And don't use smart heals too much.

  13. #13
    The Patient Leefa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    There is no sniping heals on Malkorok. Read my previous post. WoL is reporting what you put out on players, not what actually heals them.

    If your HPS numbers are low, you need to heal more. And don't use smart heals too much.
    If that was true, care to explain then why they're at the bottom, usually benched in favor of other healers?
    10man is very different from 25man, paladins are strong on 10man and weak as hell on 25man due to the way we (don't) scale with raid size. I agree shamans are kind of wank on malkorok as well, but their cooldowns make up for that - mana tide for the other healers, spirit link for p2 etc and they still do more average healing than a paladin.
    Last edited by Leefa; 2013-10-30 at 10:56 AM.
    Tank dies = Maybe healer's fault
    Healer dies = Tank's fault
    DPS dies = Their own bloody fault

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Leefa View Post
    If that was true, care to explain then why they're at the bottom, usually benched in favor of other healers?
    10man is very different from 25man, paladins are strong on 10man and weak as hell on 25man due to the way we (don't) scale with raid size. I agree shamans are kind of wank on malkorok as well, but their cooldowns make up for that - mana tide for the other healers, spirit link for p2 etc and they still do more average healing than a paladin.
    I don't know of paladins being benched, and they're certainly capable of healing that boss. Sure they don't scale well for 25, but that doesn't mean you put out less healing than in 10 man. According to WOL, 250k HPS in 10 man and 300k in 25 man is quite normal for paladins, anyone putting out less either hasn't figured out how to heal that boss, or is lacking gear.

    Comparing our paladin with the one in the log given in the first post (Anomen), last try on heroic:
    Our kill lasted 4:57, the paladin put out 34 mio healing with EF alone. Anomen put out 24 mio with EF in ~5:20, so he's just not healing enough. Both have overheal of < 5% for that spell. And this has nothing to do with 10 vs. 25 man.

  15. #15
    The Patient Leefa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    I don't know of paladins being benched, and they're certainly capable of healing that boss. Sure they don't scale well for 25, but that doesn't mean you put out less healing than in 10 man.
    It depends really. As I said, paladins are stronger in 10man due to scaling. On our 25 kills we have 2-3 priests, 1 monk and a mix of 1 druid/shaman/paladin. Guess how much healing you can do when the priests use their Halo, monks use their Revival or Uplift and so on. That's right, exactly 0. Healing when Misma is fully stacked does count as overhealing. Reason for low overhealing on EF is due to the soaking of the purple shit and the random spawning small orbs. Plus tanks taking a ton of damage.
    Tank dies = Maybe healer's fault
    Healer dies = Tank's fault
    DPS dies = Their own bloody fault

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Leefa View Post
    Healing when Misma is fully stacked does count as overhealing.
    No. Healing people with a full shield does not count as overheal. That's what I've been saying all along. I have yet to see a log where any healing spell does more than 0% overheal on players in P1. If you have one, please provide it - but I'm sure you can't, because it doesn't work like that.
    You get overheal on pets and in P2, but not in P1. Not at all.

    Edit: Just look at this chart from the logs in the OP: No overhealing at all.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ft...&s=7811&e=7948
    Last edited by Thalur; 2013-10-30 at 12:00 PM.

  17. #17
    We normally use tank to solo soak blood rages so the numbers are much lower, like monks doing 300k-350k hps so there's no way to reach those numbers as holy paladin. Although with stacking up you should be able to reach higher numbers. I don't think p1 even requires that much healing expect making sure people get shield asap if they get rid of it when soaking puddles or getting hit by knockback.

    Let's see at your paladin, he isn't using his cds well at all. 16 tries in and he has used guardian, avenging wrath 8 times and divine favor once ! He could also spec into holy avenger which would be far morse useful on that boss fight, since the only phase when you really need lot of healing is stacking phase and holy avenger is just perfect for it instead of some random proc divine purpose. He also seemed to think using cds and just throwing lightas hammer to ground with couple of holy shocks is enough healing it.

    Ok now for generally cds for stacked phases. The first p2 does less damage as he gets the 25% extra for the 2nd one. That's why you shouldnt need to use as many cds for first one as the 2nd one, you could patch in with boomkin / tanks tranquility with hotw in first p2 and saving some cds for the harder blood rage. If you use every single one in p1, then your cds wont be ready at 2nd one as there's not exactly 3 mins between phases.

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