1. #1

    The value/purpose of Haste in-between Breakpoints (Aff)

    I like to live by the philosophy of "don't simply do something, understand it".

    With that said, I simply do not understand the value or purpose of haste when you are in the middle of two breakpoints but cannot reach the higher one as Affliction.

    Let's ignore RPPM for a second, because I don't buy that as being the reason here.

    I'll give in example:
    Breakpoints 9778 and 13157.
    If you're using Mastery as your primary stat once you've reached the 9778 HBP and 15% Hit, what is the purpose of reforging Hit/Crit to Haste if you can't reach the 13157 HBP? If you're not going to reach it, why isn't Crit better?

    Please help me understand. I follow the trends and always reforge out of Crit, but I just don't understand why. RPPM aside, what am I getting out of haste when the amount of haste I have is between two breakpoints?

  2. #2
    Ignoring breakpoints: with 0 % haste it takes 4 seconds to deal the full damage of malefic grasp and get 4 extra ticks of your dots. With 100% haste you deal the same damage but in just half the time (i.e. 2 seconds), so you are doing double the dps.

    For your dots, it is the same (ignoring the breakpoints). 100% haste will make them deliver their damage in half the time, i.e., double dps. Additionally, as a very nice icing on the cake, you get more ticks for more haste, thus also increasing the damage of the whole dot (and not only its dps)

  3. #3
    well it makes your cast time of malific grasp shorter.
    I would think the most important reason is because we have Pandemic so haste isn't set in stone anymore so for each haste stat you get you might actually get more tics over a fight other than what breakpoints tell you. mastery is still king for multidotting tho but pure single target the higher amount of tics from Malific Grasp should provide a higher dps gain than mastery.
    Thats how i have understood it, hope it helps

  4. #4
    Ok, thanks. I get the Malefic Graps bit, but haste doesn't reduce the duration of the DoT, it just adds more ticks to the duration.
    For example, at 0% haste Agony has a 24 second duration. At 100% haste, Agony still haste a 24 second duration, it just ticks more frequently (more total ticks).

  5. #5
    Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.. Even without the additional ticks, haste would be better as the damage of the dot would be dealt in a shorter amount of time. This is the reason why additional haste in-between haste breakpoints gives more dps.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Decreased channel time for MG is the only real benefit.

    Again you can think of MG as a "DoT", the more haste, the more casts of it you can do in a time frame. So if you increase your haste so that before you could do 25 MG casts in a certain time frame and with a bit more haste you can do 26.

    But calculating these small breakpoints is 100% waste of time since the rotation is not "1-2-3 and repeat".

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by doyouevenhastebro View Post
    Ok, thanks. I get the Malefic Graps bit, but haste doesn't reduce the duration of the DoT, it just adds more ticks to the duration.
    For example, at 0% haste Agony has a 24 second duration. At 100% haste, Agony still haste a 24 second duration, it just ticks more frequently (more total ticks).
    This needs clarification. Haste does decrease the duration of dots in between their tresholds. It will only go back to 24 seconds when you're right over a treshold, effectively adding a tick. This is what makes the tresholds appeal: they spare you quite some globals over the course of a fight. Having more ticks on a dot itself isn't the big increase, if you're not letting your dots drop off.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by doyouevenhastebro View Post
    but haste doesn't reduce the duration of the DoT
    Yes, it does.


    There are a lot of misconceptions in this post.

    Haste scales completely linearly
    .

    Using Unstable Affliction as the example:

    At 6637, it will last for 14 seconds and does damage every 2 seconds.
    As you gain Haste, it will last for less time, and deal damage more frequently. Once you get enough Haste for it to be down to 12 seconds, it will reset to its full duration and have an extra tick in the same period.

    Gaining a Haste breakpoint does not provide any more dps than any other point of Haste, the only benefit is that it requires fewer DoT refreshes due to the longer duration dots.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2013-10-30 at 07:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EvreliaGaming View Post
    Gaining a Haste breakpoint does not provide any more dps than any other point of Haste, the only benefit is that it requires fewer DoT refreshes due to the longer duration dots.
    ^This, and this xpac a lot of our dot breakpoints were so far apart that the benefit from casting 1 dot less was lost with the decreased duration of the other two.

    Realistically though just have a fuckton of mastery and if you have a purified bindings you wont see much diff in haste / crit dps. I say this having played aff the past 3 weeks in a destro reforge with 19500 mastery 11000 crit and 5000 haste and my numbers haven't changed much if at all and I'm still very competitive with the other locks in a "proper" aff reforge.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by EvreliaGaming View Post
    Yes, it does.


    There are a lot of misconceptions in this post.

    Haste scales completely linearly
    .

    Using Unstable Affliction as the example:

    At 6637, it will last for 14 seconds and does damage every 2 seconds.
    As you gain Haste, it will last for less time, and deal damage more frequently. Once you get enough Haste for it to be down to 12 seconds, it will reset to its full duration and have an extra tick in the same period.

    Gaining a Haste breakpoint does not provide any more dps than any other point of Haste, the only benefit is that it requires fewer DoT refreshes due to the longer duration dots.
    It's not 12 seconds, more like 13 seconds, it is half a tick and it will then go up to about 15 seconds. Although that's not completely right either since like you mentioned the ticks become faster so half a tick isn't 1 second but more like 0.8 seconds or even shorter. But fundamentally your points are valid.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollololo View Post
    It's not 12 seconds, more like 13 seconds, it is half a tick and it will then go up to about 15 seconds. Although that's not completely right either since like you mentioned the ticks become faster so half a tick isn't 1 second but more like 0.8 seconds or even shorter. But fundamentally your points are valid.
    No, his points aren't "Fundamentally valid". They're valid. And it's 12.

  12. #12
    When you hit a DoT threshold the DoT will have the duration: base duration + 0,5 * "hasted tick time".

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by EvreliaGaming View Post
    Yes, it does.


    There are a lot of misconceptions in this post.

    Haste scales completely linearly
    .

    Using Unstable Affliction as the example:

    At 6637, it will last for 14 seconds and does damage every 2 seconds.
    As you gain Haste, it will last for less time, and deal damage more frequently. Once you get enough Haste for it to be down to 12 seconds, it will reset to its full duration and have an extra tick in the same period.

    Gaining a Haste breakpoint does not provide any more dps than any other point of Haste, the only benefit is that it requires fewer DoT refreshes due to the longer duration dots.
    QFT. Would quote again.

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