Poll: Old talent trees or new talent options

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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senjinone View Post
    And the old one didn't offer any choice 100% of the time.
    So this is way way way better!
    Not true. There will always be a "best" set up. Look at top players of the same class and spec and they will have the same layout of 90 talents. There are other options, they are just sub-par. When we had 71 point trees it was the same, there were other things you could place points into, and people did, and some classes had entire different trees depending on their jobs (IIRC Holy Paladins had different set ups, Resto Druids had a more "single target" focused tree etc.).

  2. #22
    hate new talents, the only thing i can choose as a rogue is burst of speed/shadowstep and cheat death/elusivness. so cool, wow. and none of those is really a choice, you pick the one that fits ecnounter the best. why do we have them at all, only final talent improves my dps. fuck you blizz, for making our talents so unrewarding/tasteless. not to mention glyphs, only theoretical dps gain is glyph of deadly momentum, maybe redirect. pretty sure i could play without talents and nobody would ever notice lol

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Senjinone View Post
    And the old one didn't offer any choice 100% of the time.
    So this is way way way better!
    Know how I know you never played a Holy Priest?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The problem in general is that in almost all cases there is a "guaranteed" way to pick the talents. If everyone (barring newbs who don't know better yet) pick the same talents, then why bother having talents at all? That's the reason we have the new system in the first place; the old system was nothing but cookie-cutter. I think the only time I ever changed talents in the old system was if I wanted to use Consecration for adds on my Paladin, and for 5-mans on my Warrior to take Thunderstruck for more AOE. Other than that, all most people did was go to EJ or similar site and put talents where the theorycrafters said they needed to put talents for more DPS/mitigation/whatever.

    Compare that to the system now where I change a couple of talents every few bosses because some bosses have adds or higher group damage with everyone stacked up so I'll take Light's Hammer instead of Holy Prism, or I don't need a burst of speed but frequent movement so I'll take Long Arm of the Law over Speed of Light, etc. There tends to be at least 2 talents that get switched around frequently, and the remaining ones are much less frequent with at least one (Eternal Flame and before that Sacred Shield for Protection) never changing just because.
    Long story short: You're wrong with the old talents, and on some levels wrong with the new talents.

    There were variations that were situational like current, lots of them. There have also been a LOT of mandatory new talents (a lot better this patch though).

    as shaman previous patches -
    First talent, astral shift other options are weak. You *could* take the others but it isnt optimal.
    Second talent, windwalk is only one that affects raids bar 1 fight in tier 14 (and not really a big deal to take)
    Third talent, projection for dps, the reset one for healing
    4th - patch dependent. Always one best.
    5th - dps take AG, healers take HTT
    6th - patch dependent. Always one best.

    tier 1 and 4-6 are better this tier but previously I rarely changed talents at all.
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  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    The Talent system doesn't changed much except that you have 3 options every 15 Levels. All other things are build in learned so i don't know why they removed the trees. Let the people choose there points every level, add the 3 Abilities every 15 levels witin the trees and everyone is happy. Take the best of both worlds.

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Old talent trees were boring and trivial to make (I made my holy pally tree before 3.0 without looking at a guide or anything else - pump all the stuff that gives you more healing, done).
    At least new talents can be situationally useful.
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  7. #27
    You can't really compare the two. Yes the talent tree changed, but what also changed is how easy it is to swap talents around now. If we had tomes of the clear mind with the old talents giving us the option to reset them whenever we felt like it would already have been an enormous improvement without even touching the actual talents.

    About the actual talents.. I'm neutral. Nothing has changed really for many classes, while for other classes like mages and healing priests talents completely determine and change how you play. So all in all the new talents are just a sloppy inconsistent concept.

    In the end there is still a cookie cutter spec with the only difference being that some core abilities are now talent "choices" so you are forced to swap things around depending on the fight or activity.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    I really don't understand why people would prefer to have the old talent system back. It was bad, was forcing you to take some useless Talents that was made mostly for PVP use even if you did not want to play PVP and you did not have the ability to swap over Talents during raids.
    The old Talent system should never return. I guess some adjustments could be made to the new Talent system like some of the 90 lvl Talents for some Classes but that is all.
    Whoever says the old Talent system was better, probably believes that raiding was better in Vanilla old days....
    That's because you don't actually have any choice now. Is all been made for you. Your character only has three ways to play, and each of them are dependant on what youre doing in game anyway.

    Talents like 1% crit were fun because you got stronger as your levelled. Having to decide if you wanted to gain combo points on a dodge or if you wanted more sword specialisation was still somewhat interesting. At least you had the choice back then.

    You could sometimes spec into an ability of you wanted to use it in your rotation, and if you didn't, you could put the points somewhere else. Talents used to affect your class rotation choice, and they don't anymore, so all of one class play exactly the same. More than likely, those classes play exactly the same.

    Choosing between 3 talent options really is boring and unplesent. Talents you pick every 15 levels no longer feel connected at all to the specialisation you are.

    All they have to do is bring back the old system, and at key intervals, make you choose one of the new talents which can be picked by any specialisation.

    Heck just open the whole talent of the old tree up across all 3 columns so you can chuck points anywhere you please. That's a much more interesting system than what we have now.

  9. #29
    I think the current talentsystem is fine. It just need more tiers. Like one talent every 5th lvl or something.

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    the new ones arent a real choice either

    this new system allows you change talents depending on the situation, this is a new feature.

    OH WAIT, ITS NOT

    you could change talents depending on your situation with the old talent trees as well (this and "PvP and PvE" were two of the many reasons dual-spec was implemented)

    at least the old talents could make crazy specs like SL/SL locks, PoM/Pyro/Barrier mages and shockadins

    the new talents have the illusion of choice, there will ALWAYS be a best talent for any given situation, there's still the illusion of choice just like the old talents - now there's just less talents
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blupparen View Post
    I think the current talentsystem is fine. It just need more tiers. Like one talent every 5th lvl or something.
    That is basically what the old system allowed you to do.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Summary
    Player a - Old talents rock, new ones suck
    Player b - New talents rock, old ones only gave an illusion of choice
    old talents give more control (especialy on hc progress), hybrid builds, and more on what "now talent system rock" player are blind at

  13. #33
    I enjoy the new one more. Don't remember bothering changing talents on the old system, just looked up what was best and stayed. New one I have used and tweaked more, switch out one move for another is fast and easy, old way you'd have to do everything to switch up a move.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    I want the old ones back, the new ones dont offer choice at all 90% of the time with the old ones you could have some crazy hybrid specs which was simply awesome
    What? I see people with all sorts of different talents doing about the same damage. The old system was not about crazy hybrid specs.. it was more like, for one patch one or two classes could make a OP hybrid spec and it would get nerfed because of how stupidly OP they were (Prot/holy paladin)

    maybe Some classes could do some decent hybrid like arms/fury wars and not be op but for others like enh shamans it was 100% the same thing or you completely gimp your character.
    Last edited by Koreche; 2013-10-30 at 11:47 AM.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Not true. There will always be a "best" set up. Look at top players of the same class and spec and they will have the same layout of 90 talents. There are other options, they are just sub-par. When we had 71 point trees it was the same, there were other things you could place points into, and people did, and some classes had entire different trees depending on their jobs (IIRC Holy Paladins had different set ups, Resto Druids had a more "single target" focused tree etc.).
    Now you pick talents based on whats best for the fight.
    Yes, there is a most common setup, but if you want to optimize there are fights where you need to change talents.
    That never happened with the old system, ever.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Chain Chungus's Avatar
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    It's just another, more powerful glyph in a new package.

    Talents no longer exist.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas the Priest View Post
    Know how I know you never played a Holy Priest?
    So are you saying you don't switch the level 90 talent based on fights?
    if not you are doing it wrong.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Senjinone View Post
    Now you pick talents based on whats best for the fight.
    Yes, there is a most common setup, but if you want to optimize there are fights where you need to change talents.
    That never happened with the old system, ever.
    Yes it did.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    My opinion on the new talent trees:
    PROS:
    - keeps multiple options
    - adds something to work around with

    CONS:
    - more homogenization and less spec individuality
    - still cookie cutters no matter how hard they act there are none
    - diminishes the leveling experience
    - no background pics. srsly, the background looks like a north korean mmo

    All in all, I am not happy with these talents since the cons outweight the pros for me. If we are keeping these design my personal wish would be too have the talent trees highly affected by the spec choice. The moment when shadowfury is 90% the right choice as affliction is against everything the spec ones stood for. 5sec stun for DKs? Remorsless winter for unholy? Shockwave for dps warr? Arms race at its worst.

    pve speaking, it diminishes the importance of brining the other classes and makes fotm stacking even worse. every spec in this game should have a shining moment and a weakness, and the new talents are turning us all into one-man armies. It diminishes the roles of a class in rpgs.
    Last edited by mmoc4f448e7a9a; 2013-10-30 at 12:00 PM.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    The old players will still love the old talent trees (as i do). The new guys will love the new talent trees. Maybe it is nostalgia but i for one would definitely like to see the old design/ new fresh design.

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