In so far as rep grinding is concerned I think the answer is to bring back the tabard but make it universal. Do whatever you want for rep. Go fish for rep. Go daily for rep. Go dungeon for rep.
Except you could very easily have killed the NORMAL max level dungeon bosses... yeah, again, that didn't cut it. The exact same activities were available; to claim that suddenly people couldn't just "mindlessly kill things for 'fun'" is completely untrue. That's untrue now.I mean it's fine for you to say it cost them 15 bucks a month but yea that's the point. For casual players killing an easy boss is fine because well they're casual. They don't want to put up with to much bs either because it's difficult or because it's time consuming (which has the same net effect if your bad at killing bosses). Properly understood the complaint from cataclysm was not so much that bosses were hard it was more that my time is being wasted here and I'm getting nothing or very little out of this experience.
It just gets old after a while, among the myriad of factors you're also ignoring.
In WotLK players were upset, that there was a split between normal and heroic. Some players argued, that raids should always be hard, there shouldn't be an easy version of it, and if players weren't good enough, they should get better and not get things handed to them. A lot of people, a lot of heroic raiders anyway, claimed that normal mode raiders aren't real raiders, and normal mode raiding isn't real raiding. Heroic raiders said, that when you defeat a boss on normal mode, where it's easy, it's doesn't feel that special anymore if you later defeat him on heroic.
The conversation has shifted from "normal vs. heroic raiding" to "LFR vs. the rest", and the arguments are the same. If they ever remove LFR, which they won't, the conversation would shift to "Flex is too easy, remove it", and if they remove it, it would be back at "normal raiding is too easy". And on top of that, tons of players will be unhappy, because you've taken their raiding experience away from them.
They're easy as all get out to get on the timeless isle. I probably have enough to last me to the next expansion, and that's from passively just doing the timeless isle stuff. They might as well just lump in a weekly quest to give you the charms for free now.
Actually lots of them did kill the normal level dungeons but guess what? NO GEAR MON. Or relatively weak gear at any rate and iirc their was only a couple of normal lvl max level dungeons, hell we got NONE in mists. Remember coming out of wotlk they had not only easy access to the heroic dungeons but easy access to gear (and a much easier and more lax healing model I could also argue). Why wouldn't they go right for heroics?
Look I agree it gets old but raids don't? I mean it's not really a good argument to say the game is old. I do agree with it but like focusing it on raiding hasn't rejuvenated it anyway and the developers seemingly produce nothing but raids these days soooo I don't get how this is a defence or justification of anything?
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LFR is great.
So does flex.
What I want is flex becoming the new standard (with a higher difficulty and a heroic mode of course) and 10 / 25 removed No more guildmate waiting on the side of the road ! Yeah, fun for everybody !
To be honest, who runs LFR after 3 - 4 weeks or regular raiding ? So, who cares ?
Last edited by LatexIdo; 2013-10-31 at 08:51 AM.
Then one could equally say "if you don't like raids being the content, WoW isn't the game for you." That's the way WoW has been; it's only happened that more people have come to do the raids, largely by Blizzard's design.Look I agree it gets old but raids don't? I mean it's not really a good argument to say the game is old. I do agree with it but like focusing it on raiding hasn't rejuvenated it anyway and the developers seemingly produce nothing but raids these days soooo I don't get how this is a defence or justification of anything?
Raids tell the story, offer different challenges, loot, achievements, mounts, different environments... all forms of character progression. The thing is, those are all hinged on having gear. That's WoW.
I really hate this new wave of people feeling entitled to things they don't wanna spend time on. If you buy a single player game that is too hard for you, do you whine to the developer that you want your money back because you could not finish the game? Absolutely ridiculous.
To me this is all about what i just said, ive had periods in my life when i couldnt raid cause work took all my time. I did not whine about how unfair it was beacuse others had better gear then me or that they could experience more of the game then me. They are suppose to do that if they play more!
Endgame is a definition that people have taken way too seriously the last 5-10 years. What most of you do not understand is that endgame in an MMO is suppose to be personal, not what finishes the game for the person who can play it 16 hours per day. I remember back in the day of Asherons Call when endgame for some people was to get to Aerlinthe Island(lvl 45 of 126). And for others it was lvl 126 and full tinkered armor (atleast a year of playing).
I do understand the need to feel like you are having fun, like your character is progressing and that its worth logging in. Therefor i kind of liked the system more where you could actually grind your raid gear for justice/valor points even tho it took a couple of months extra time the casuals still got their gear eventually.
For me personally wow has become a game where people dont need to learn about their class, to learn boss mechanics or to even be nice to eachother anymore. LFR made all that possible and therefor i dislike LFR in the way its played right now. Im unsure how to fix this, since the community have been leaning on this nut for a while now and i dont think that the casual squad could live without it. And make no mistake, hardcore players need casuals as much as casuals need hardcore players.
Everything is awesome -sings-
Okay and that's not the game for you soooo why is anyone surprised people are leaving? I mean if the developers share that attitude (and they very well may) how long do you think they'll keep their jobs? How many subscribers or customers do you think the game can maintain? Here's the thing for a large section of the player base the game was largely never about raids. They had other activities that kept them p(l)aying and rewarded. At the end of cataclysm it came down a draw between those activities (dungeons) and raids and well obviously one of these won out and it was the less casual friendly of the two.
Raids aren't the only way to tell the story, offering different challenges is not the primary goal or method of entertaining people, lots of other content offered really good loot before, achievements exist everywhere, mounts can be acquired through numerous activities, different environments are well different enviroments and chjaracter progression can be offered in alternatives just as good as raiding. None of it needs to be hinged on gear but even if it does then it need not be hinged on RAIDING or consuming raid content at any rate. Raiding is not a fundamental law of nature, business, or game design.
And then do that for every DPS/healer/tank having problems in your LFR group?
And people say LFR is time consuming now... With such a large group, personal accountability has to take a hit, or else one or two people could genuinely hold up entire raids.
The developers like to use the word "compelling" alot. The definition of the root of that word is FORCED (literally you can look it up). So yes in the process of trying to compel people to do an activity people felt compelled to do it and they didn't like it cause it felt like a job and they just wanted to get it over with. Now it could be that the activity had less benefit and less "bonus" but then it would be less "compelling" but people would feel like they could skip it and yes would actually skip it. It goes hand in hand. You can't make something that rewarding that it's compelling and then not expect people feel forced to do it. I mean what fuckign sense does that make? The developers put that shit in the game for you to do it not for you to skip it. What kind of a total fucking waste of time and resources would it be if it was just in the game for you to skip it and ignore it? Of course they want you to do it, of course thy want you to feel "compelled" to do it, it's just that at some point people felt forced (which again is the defintion of the word "compel") to do it and guess what they didn't like that. It all goes back to people not doing anything unless their was gear around it.
Ironically that's the position that lfr is in now to. Before everyone felt forced. Well now flex is here and bam lfr feels less "compelling" really forced all of a sudden.
Having catchup dungeons released each patch means people don't have to sit so long in queues and have more new content regularly be it LFR or dungeons. I think the dungeon patch they took in Cata worked pretty well (although personally I hated the two troll rehashed ones).