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  1. #241
    Dreadlord Fungj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.
    This is basicly what I thought when I saw this thread.

    People just say that they want LFR removed but dosen't think about the players who spend most of the time doing LFR, I don't say that I like LFR but it needs something to replace it.
    Last edited by Fungj; 2013-10-31 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #242
    Epic! Bosbeer's Avatar
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    What endgame do I propose for the casual players?

    Start putting effort in the game so you can do Normal and HC modes.
    LFR is roughly 50% of actual raiding content.
    You'll see double the content if you run the raid on Flex or Normal mode.
    Go do RBGs and Arenas if you're a PvPer.

  3. #243
    Dreadlord Fungj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuniorBinda View Post
    What endgame do I propose for the casual players?

    Start putting effort in the game so you can do Normal and HC modes.
    LFR is roughly 50% of actual raiding content.
    You'll see double the content if you run the raid on Flex or Normal mode.
    Go do RBGs and Arenas if you're a PvPer.
    The thing is that most people that do LFR probably don't have time for higher dificultys.

  4. #244
    why dont you ask the casual players what they want instead of asking players whom are not casual to tell casual players what they can have?

    if casual players dont want what you want to give them, they are not going to pay to play the game, derp...

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by GuniorBinda View Post
    What endgame do I propose for the casual players?

    Start putting effort in the game so you can do Normal and HC modes.
    LFR is roughly 50% of actual raiding content.
    You'll see double the content if you run the raid on Flex or Normal mode.
    Go do RBGs and Arenas if you're a PvPer.
    I could put in a ton of effort into the game to learn my class, but if I have an erratic schedule, I can't raid at all

  6. #246
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Right okay Gear was the draw? I don't see the argument your making here. Gear is almost ALWAYS the draw only now it's been made less casual to get.
    It depends on what you mean by "gear." Everyone "has" gear. Epics are fairly easy to get (especially now with timeless isle.)

    Okay and that's not the game for you soooo why is anyone surprised people are leaving? I mean if the developers share that attitude (and they very well may) how long do you think they'll keep their jobs? How many subscribers or customers do you think the game can maintain? Here's the thing for a large section of the player base the game was largely never about raids. They had other activities that kept them p(l)aying and rewarded.
    And then they saw raids (in WotLK, primarily,) and decided those other activities paled in comparison.

    Someone here put it quite nicely... they were subsisting on stale bread, and they were happy enough to get stale bread; they never new anything better. But then, when they got a taste of cake... they weren't very well going back to being happy eating stale bread, now were they?

    Raids aren't the only way to tell the story, offering different challenges is not the primary goal or method of entertaining people, lots of other content offered really good loot before, achievements exist everywhere, mounts can be acquired through numerous activities, different environments are well different enviroments and chjaracter progression can be offered in alternatives just as good as raiding.
    Unless those are TIED to something (whether that be raids or the 5.1 dailies) to some process, people blow through them in 20 minutes. And then, again, they have nothing to do.

    Like story in Battlefield barrens. People finished it on the first day. Many people, myself included, snapped up one or two things from the vendors and then never went back. I wasn't going to farm stone, meat, oil, and lumber to clog up my bags just so I could stare at it all day.

    Or take timeless isle. It was a "different-ish" environment, but did that matter worth a darn? No. People romped and roamed all over it in a day, and that was it for the "mysteriousness" if the island. It then boiled down to completing whatever tasks the island had to offer.

    None of it needs to be hinged on gear but even if it does then it need not be hinged on RAIDING or consuming raid content at any rate. Raiding is not a fundamental law of nature, business, or game design.
    I haven't actually said what I think game design is at all; I'm merely providing the counter points to what you're saying.

    Frankly, I could give two shits what Blizzard cranks out as long as people (I) have something to do. And the only thing that particularly holds my attention past me having scoured any new patch activity for new mounts, the story line, and maybe a pet or two, is gear progression, whether it be PvP or PvE. I don't care if that's in the form of raids or dungeons, but I want it to be moderately thought-involving. Cataclysm heroics were great in my book. I don't find leveling alts attractive; I already did those quests. I don't find "killing for the lols" to be useful either; I don't solo raid/dungeon bosses that don't drop mounts unless I need to forge through them to get to a boss that does.



    But that aside, I'm not entirely sure what it is you're "arguing" for other than "anyone should be able to do whatever they want..." Well, you can already do that. No one is forcing you to do anything. The only difference is, you're not all going to get to the same place doing "whatever;" frankly, it seems like you're more incensed about the fact that people care about things now, more than that you can't actually "do whatever you want" anymore; that people want some sort of "end-goal" instead of the large majority of people paying 15 dollars a month to be content to run around and kill boars. (Which of course, you can still do.)
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-10-31 at 09:26 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #247
    Remove LFR/flex/normal and have only heroic raiding. Make raids totally non-relevant to the big story so nobody needs to do them.

  8. #248
    Some solutions (brainstorming) from a non-professional designer (imagine if they pay you to do a good brainstorming!):

    ·3-5 man raids/Dungeons : High lore-story.
    Something like BRD style, difficult like: first 1/3 of raid easy, second 1/3 Flex, and last 1/3 of raid like normal difficult. Needs more time than a Normal rush to be done. Maybe the last boss could be a Heroic difficult. Same raid lockdown than the current raid. Optional hardcore boss (?).
    Rewards: 90/100 ilvl to 100/100 ilvl.

    ·Pet battles: Low lore-story.
    Brawler's guild+scenarios+pet battle tournament fusioned. That could have a ladder (for all players) with a tytles and rewards (Like PvP arenas/RBGs) but only for battle pets. Expand all battle pets/system to be a serious feature ingame.
    Reward: Same rewards like PvP (titles/mounts/etc...).

    ·Raids (1 mode, because I'm a fan of 1 difficult mode XD):High lore-story.
    Not so big like this days (2 raids with 7/8 bosses or one big raid like Ulduar maybe). First Half of Bosses with normal difficult,, second half of Bosses with Hardcore difficult. Optional hardcore bosses.
    Reward: 100/100 ilvl to 110/100 ilvl.

    ·PvP Arena (not a fun, so I don't know how to improve that feature): Low lore-story. (maybe some PvP characters?)
    Same like this days (ladder ranking maybe ?).
    Rewards: Same like this days? Maybe unquie transmogs? Don't know.

    ·PvP rBGs (not a fun, so I don't know how to improve that feature): Low lore-story. (maybe some PvP characters?)
    Same (?)
    Rewards: Same (?).

    ·Profession masters (?): Low lore-story.
    After basic recipes for PvE/PvP, new gathering parts aer opening (hard to obtain, very hard!!!). Quests done/ mobs killed/ participation in other endgame contents, participation in current factions, etc... can give unique transmogs sets. Maybe re-doing all instanced raids/dungeons in challenge modes help in that. Don't know, something that give more live to endgame content. Really hard (time wise) to obtain using things like: RNG, Grinds, old content, achievements, factions, etc...
    Rewards: Transmogs. In second place, mounts/achievements/titles.

    ·Challenge modes: Old lore-story.
    Old content using the same feature maybe. Maybe raids in the future.
    Rewards: Transmogs maybe? Pets maybe? Profession Master* items maybe? Don't know, it feels like a minigame and not something to do like endgame content.

    Don't go mad, this is a brainstorming!!!
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-10-31 at 10:06 AM.

  9. #249
    Grunt Bertas's Avatar
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    LFR is the way for me atleast to experience the storyline. Without LFR I would probably not be in the World of Warcraft.
    I mean, Timeless Isle became pretty boring after some weeks.
    Achievments is not for me.
    What I do is pretty much do LFR hope for some drops I need and I'm happy with that.
    If you dont like LFR, then dont join it.

  10. #250
    Herald of the Titans Flutterguy's Avatar
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    It still amazes me how much people care about the existence of LFR.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Maybe if they aren't devoted players try don't belong in this type of game...

    But I would add a lot of hard dungeons. Like hour or two hour long ones. If thu can't do an hour then they can't do LFR now.

    Or put them in proving grounds till they can do average dps. Then flex.
    I agree 100% with this. I disliked the fact the game was dumbed down to cater for people that cant hack the game. In classic you had excellent tough hard dungeon that catered for all.

  12. #252
    I think flex would be a good choice for people who do not want to devote themselves for normal/heroic mode.
    But do note that there are a lot of LFR supporters on this forum. Suggesting something like this/or wanting legit discussion will be met with insults and pitchforks.

  13. #253
    But why can't casuals raid normals/heroics? I mean raiding about 6 hours every week seems "casual" enough. The bosses are not really difficult in normalmode.

  14. #254
    High Overlord Yaney's Avatar
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    What kind of endgame did they have in Vanilla? Yet somehow casuals existed even back then so.. Especially with Flex being an awesome feature, they can still do it, only trick is, they have to improve, at least a little.

  15. #255
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Dungeons .

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Yeah. That's great if you have 530+ ilevel and the achieves (which seems to be the current Flex standard now). That pretty much excludes everyone that LFR was intended for. Please play again.
    considering you can farm that out of the timeless isle with burdens and get some pieces from IoT and ToT.
    but i guess putting any amount of work into your character is out of the question, huh?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Dungeons .
    seriously, this.
    LFR has completely replaced dungeons in this expac.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Some solutions (brainstorming) from a non-professional designer (imagine if they pay you to do a good brainstorming!):

    ·3-5 man raids/Dungeons :
    Something like BRD style, difficult like: first 1/3 of raid easy, second 1/3 Flex, and last 1/3 of raid like normal difficult. Needs more time than a Normal rush to be done. Maybe the last boss could be a Heroic difficult. Same raid lockdown than the current raid. Optional hardcore boss (?).
    Rewards: 90/100 ilvl to 100/100 ilvl.

    ·Pet battles:
    Brawler's guild+scenarios+pet battle tournament fusioned. That could have a ladder (for all players) with a tytles and rewards (Like PvP arenas/RBGs) but only for battle pets. Expand all battle pets/system to be a serious feature ingame.
    Reward: Same rewards like PvP (titles/mounts/etc...).

    ·Raids (1 mode, because I'm a fan of 1 difficult mode XD):
    Not so big like this days (2 raids with 7/8 bosses or one big raid like Ulduar maybe). First Half of Bosses with normal difficult,, second half of Bosses with Hardcore difficult. Optional hardcore bosses.
    Reward: 100/100 ilvl to 110/100 ilvl.

    ·PvP Arena (not a fun, so I don't know how to improve that feature):
    Same like this days (ladder ranking maybe ?).
    Rewards: Same like this days? Maybe unquie transmogs? Don't know.

    ·PvP rBGs (not a fun, so I don't know how to improve that feature):
    Same (?)
    Rewards: Same (?).

    ·Profession masters (?):
    After basic recipes for PvE/PvP, new gathering parts aer opening (hard to obtain, very hard!!!). Quests done/ mobs killed/ participation in other endgame contents, participation in current factions, etc... can give unique transmogs sets. Maybe re-doing all instanced raids/dungeons in challenge modes help in that. Don't know, something that give more live to endgame content. Really hard (time wise) to obtain using things like: RNG, Grinds, old content, achievements, factions, etc...
    Rewards: Transmogs. In second place, mounts/achievements/titles.

    ·Challenge modes:
    Old content using the same feature maybe. Maybe raids in the future.
    Rewards: Transmogs maybe? Pets maybe? Profession Master* items maybe? Don't know, it feels like a minigame and not something to do like endgame content.

    Don't go mad, this is a brainstorming!!!
    You have some nice Ideas and some odd ones.

    I think dungeons would work better as they are on LFD but then have a second queuing option that requires you to have a full group we shall call this champion mode (similar to how flex queuing works). This 2nd mode is more difficult and has 2 extra dungeons that are far longer than the others (BRD style) All dungeons in this mode are harder and the end bosses reward epic items where as the rest of the items are the same as normal heroics but are higher item level.

    All dungeon items can be upgraded one time to another 4 item levels in all dungeon modes. Requires VP, it works on epic dungeon items and non epic dungeon items. You can also buy some dungeon gear from the vendors but its expensive JP wise. This makes JP a good currency for dungeons. Make a dungeon tier set (drops in both modes one is a higher item level than the other both can be upgraded via JP/a unique quest line).

    Have raid modes like so:
    10/25 Normal and Heroic are available from raid release. If you choose to go heroic or wait to get gear first its up to you.
    Flex 1st wing on raid release then 2nd wing opens 2 weeks after the 1st and then repeating like this until all wings are unlocked. This staggers the content for the masses.
    LFR 1st wing opens 4 weeks after expansion release (so casual players have time to get things done prior raiding and ensures they run through dungeon content first) then every 2 weeks a new wing opens.

    Have challenge modes in the game still have unique transmog sets AND weapons and mounts. With a leader board as is now.

    Scenarios continue as they are with their H versions as well.

    Add 2 dungeons per raid patch. The 2 dungeons have new items and either new dungeon sets OR you complete achievements/new quests to upgrade your current dungeon set to a new level or hell even acquire the previous tiers LFR/Flex raid set in these new dungeons. The dungeons you could only access via the challenge modes and champion mode dungeons can be added to the standard LFD queue and are re-tuned AND split into wings. This means casual players now get 6 new dungeons on the raid patch (if they never did a champion mode dungeon).

    thats my vision for dungeons and raids at least.

    Professions I feel should have more things to do, like dungeon drops as well as raid drops for item recipes to make things interesting. I would also have random world drops for items as well. Black smithing can also do armour repairs but instead of costing gold it would require metal bars. So if you are a black smith you can repair your own armour or armour of other people for bars (this makes it so its not over powered and more a flavour). Same thing for leather workers and leather gear and tailors and cloth gear.

    I would also make enchants transmogable. You simply go to the transmog vendor and put in the enchant you wish to have as your "spell effect" on that weapon.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    But why can't casuals raid normals/heroics? I mean raiding about 6 hours every week seems "casual" enough. The bosses are not really difficult in normalmode.
    Many don't like the idea of being on a schedule for a video game, many don't have the time for 6 hours every week, many can't set up a consistent 6 hours, many don't play the game to be "good" at it.

  19. #259
    I will start by saying that i spend at least 4 hours/day in game i raid 3 nights/week and i am in a 9/14 heroic guild just to clarify my opinion about LFR.
    I HATE LFR because it promotes players that are lasy have a bad attitude dont want to learn how to play the game properly and so on.
    I NEVER EVER run LFR because of the reasons above.
    I DONT WANT LFR removed because the lasy, rude, spoiled brats NEED to be ingame and pay their subscription so i can enjoy my heroic content.
    I DONT GIVE A SHIT about what the bad rude spoiled brats do, what gear they get from LFR, how great they think they are because they confuse LFR with raiding, i am just happy that i dont have to deal with them but in the same time they exist and pay their subscription so Blizzard keeps on releasing good content that i can enjoy with my guild and friends.
    I dont understand why players that have time/skill/determination to play properly the game care about what the bad rude spoiled brats get or dont get out of the game as long as they are happy as well and stay here to fill blizzards pockets so the company can release more content for us?

  20. #260
    I think dungeons would work better as they are on LFD but then have a second queuing option that requires you to have a full group we shall call this champion mode (similar to how flex queuing works). This 2nd mode is more difficult and has 2 extra dungeons that are far longer than the others (BRD style) All dungeons in this mode are harder and the end bosses reward epic items where as the rest of the items are the same as normal heroics but are higher item level.

    All dungeon items can be upgraded one time to another 4 item levels in all dungeon modes. Requires VP, it works on epic dungeon items and non epic dungeon items. You can also buy some dungeon gear from the vendors but its expensive JP wise. This makes JP a good currency for dungeons. Make a dungeon tier set (drops in both modes one is a higher item level than the other both can be upgraded via JP/a unique quest line).

    Have raid modes like so:
    10/25 Normal and Heroic are available from raid release. If you choose to go heroic or wait to get gear first its up to you.
    Flex 1st wing on raid release then 2nd wing opens 2 weeks after the 1st and then repeating like this until all wings are unlocked. This staggers the content for the masses.
    LFR 1st wing opens 4 weeks after expansion release (so casual players have time to get things done prior raiding and ensures they run through dungeon content first) then every 2 weeks a new wing opens.

    Have challenge modes in the game still have unique transmog sets AND weapons and mounts. With a leader board as is now.

    Scenarios continue as they are with their H versions as well.

    Add 2 dungeons per raid patch. The 2 dungeons have new items and either new dungeon sets OR you complete achievements/new quests to upgrade your current dungeon set to a new level or hell even acquire the previous tiers LFR/Flex raid set in these new dungeons. The dungeons you could only access via the challenge modes and champion mode dungeons can be added to the standard LFD queue and are re-tuned AND split into wings. This means casual players now get 6 new dungeons on the raid patch (if they never did a champion mode dungeon).

    thats my vision for dungeons and raids at least.

    Professions I feel should have more things to do, like dungeon drops as well as raid drops for item recipes to make things interesting. I would also have random world drops for items as well. Black smithing can also do armour repairs but instead of costing gold it would require metal bars. So if you are a black smith you can repair your own armour or armour of other people for bars (this makes it so its not over powered and more a flavour). Same thing for leather workers and leather gear and tailors and cloth gear.

    I would also make enchants transmogable. You simply go to the transmog vendor and put in the enchant you wish to have as your "spell effect" on that weapon.
    I don't agree with all, but really good!! That's the way to go. Just improve the game as far as you can. Not giving tools to "kill" your own features or characteristics, just improve, and If you have a problem with something, just find a good solution that affect just ingame, not mechanic of all game.

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