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  1. #401
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Method, Midwinter and Blood Legion all went on strike at the start I next expansion Blizzard would scramble to get them back. Why? Because they are the players who have stayed here for a long time. The ones who don't quit because they have bad loot luck or got nerfed.
    Blizz wouldn't care. If all those guilds left the game forever they would simply be replaced. Now, if every non-heroic raiding player left THEN Blizz would scramble to get people back.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Oh don't be ridiculous. Raids became puggable a couple patches after release. Even BT and Hyjal near the end. Everything else bar Sunwell could be progressed through on a 12-20 hour raid schedule. Still not that casual, true.
    My guild cleared sunwell on a 8 hour raid a week schedule. But even I know that it was rather exclusive.

  3. #403
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    yup

    the problem is not just LFR its that they made everything so EASY, DUMB, and CRAPPY other than raids.
    WoW endgame only has 2 things that NEED to be challenging. That's raiding and PvP. We don't need hard 5 mans. You think that average players want to sit there for 2 hours wiping in a 5 man? We tried that in Cata remember? How did that go?

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Why would I be butthurt? I don't even do LFR anymore. At least I can tell LFR has major problems and I try to find solutions while you are complaining about complainers (butthurt).
    The only solution you are offering is to remove LFR, not fix LFR so it works better. Removing LFR does not fix the problem that casuals need content and so long as that content is raid based content then all the resources can be used to make Raids better. The reason Flex can not remove LFR is because not everyone is on a skill level where they would be welcome in a flex and not everyone can dedicate a scheduled amount of time to join a flex. There are a large portion of the player base that fit into these groups and they need something to occupy them and so long as they are consuming sloppy seconds of raid material we raiders continue to get as much raid content as we can handle.

  5. #405
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver9172 View Post
    WoW endgame only has 2 things that NEED to be challenging. That's raiding and PvP. We don't need hard 5 mans. You think that average players want to sit there for 2 hours wiping in a 5 man? We tried that in Cata remember? How did that go?
    The real problem with that, I think, was there was no teaching and there was no ramp up. Things were easy, till they weren't easy. That's a terrible way to design things, and it's why it bit them in the ass. Go back a couple of responses, and see my idea that involves leveling with proving grounds-esque scenarios. That's the kind of things this game needs, I think, among other things. Nothing really prepares people for anything in this game, and the rest of the community has little to no patience for it, which causes a crock pot of problems.

  6. #406
    Personally I dont see LFR as a casual way of see the End game or experience the new raid instance.

    1) To get in to LFR as healer or tank - Queues differ but usually u get to join a grp in 1-10 mins. But for DPS its most likely 20 mins+ perhaps even 50 mins
    2) when u are already in u might join a grp that already finished of 1-2 or even 3 bosses which means that u have to rejoin.
    3) if u are in a full grp rdy to rumble u will most likely have to spend at least 1,5- 2 hours in the raid. Faster perhaps with a good grp but most likely not during this early stage.
    4) you have to do all this for 3 more parts
    5) ppl leave, disconnect AFK and the grp have to idle for god knows how long.
    6) there is prolly more to add...


    Adding all this time together with queues, wiping and raiding in LFR u easily fit in a 2-3 nights per week raiding schedule.

    Casual LFR isnt Casual. It takes time and is retarded. If u want ppl to improve, make the game hard. Flex should by all means be the easiest difficulty.

    Personally LFR is just another way of getting some upgrades for an alt which is most welcome of course but I cba struggle with idiots when I am already undergeared and cant carry the grp.
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  7. #407
    aspire to do something lol?

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yes, but...

    -Classic covered 60 levels
    -Classic started with you being poor and no economy, getting money was hard
    -Classic didn't allow you to even ride for 40 levels
    -Classic didn't have fansite spoiling everything on day 1

    Apples and oranges..already in TBC, players raced to lv 70 in 24 hrs or so.

    Can't do much about fansites spoiling things. Although they can stop being so dependent on public test realms. And put some cease-and-desists on dataminers. People are still going to datamine, but with official sites not allowed to show the results, and visitors being so lazy, very few people will actually go the extra mile to find an "underground" datamine-results-displaying site, and even those sites can be similarly treated, since just like most people that want to visit them, so can Blizzard's lawyers find them. They could also ban some add-ons that pretty much play the game for you, and impose a delay on fansites releasing guides for recent content. Too much work, I know, but if they care there are available steps.

    Of course, there are no more 60 levels to cover, but that does not mean that there cannot be developed an equally large amount of content; which is what matters the most in this subject. That is why I am coming back to quantity continuously. They can still develop as many zones, as many campaigns, as many class quests, as much complex quests, and so on. They can actually do better than vanilla; far better. But they don't, because they have gone the instanced content way, which is more convenient, and faster, and has less expenses.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-10-31 at 02:11 PM.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by silver9172 View Post
    Blizz wouldn't care. If all those guilds left the game forever they would simply be replaced. Now, if every non-heroic raiding player left THEN Blizz would scramble to get people back.
    Blizzard wouldn't give a shit if 75 players went on strike, not when their business is to make 7.5 million people happy, and ones personal raiding skill does not factor into making people happy. Blizzard wouldn't even feel the bump of running over those three world first guilds leaving the game. The ideal that 3 world first guilds having the power to make blizzard break seriously makes me wonder about the age of the poster who said that these 3 world first guilds could actually make blizzard change its direction.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharalla View Post
    I don't mind running lfr most of the time. I'm in a guild of primarily friends, some rl some not. I was running a 10 man raid group until recently when we switched to Flex. However... as the 10 man we were doing ToT and were stuck on Council. People got frustrated and wanted to go do Siege, I tried to point out we couldn't even clear ToT how were we going to do in SoO, but they insisted so I said fine we'll go as a flex so more can come with. Now we're stuck on 2nd boss in SoO. I have people that aren't the greatest players in the world, some that are slow to move out of stuff, some that take several dozen tries before they figure out a new mechanic, etc. I can't kick them from the raid because they're friends and I'd lose half my raid if I even thought about it.

    So for people like me (and most of my raiders) lfr is a way for us to see end game content and perhaps pick up some gear that will increase our dps and heals and enable us to possibly just power through so of the mechanics some of the others are having issues with.
    Your problem is the difficulty level. That doesn't mean that LFR has to stay. At least not in it's current form. You can have a Flex raid on a LFR-like difficulty without having to queue and group up with complete strangers and random players. An oQueue-like LFG tool can then replace the old queueing system and we don't have to spam trade chat and we will have a much broader search for players because it's crossrealm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    The only solution you are offering is to remove LFR, not fix LFR so it works better. Removing LFR does not fix the problem that casuals need content and so long as that content is raid based content then all the resources can be used to make Raids better. The reason Flex can not remove LFR is because not everyone is on a skill level where they would be welcome in a flex and not everyone can dedicate a scheduled amount of time to join a flex. There are a large portion of the player base that fit into these groups and they need something to occupy them and so long as they are consuming sloppy seconds of raid material we raiders continue to get as much raid content as we can handle.
    Yeah.... just go back a few pages and look what I wrote instead of telling me that I am not offering a solution and only want to remove LFR.

    A Flexible raid on a LFR difficulty with an oQueue-like LFG tool can be used exactly the same as LFR if you still want that...
    How is that not a good proposal?
    Last edited by Gilian; 2013-10-31 at 02:15 PM.

  11. #411
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    They don't want us playing at all, just farming mats to give to them, and of course paying or subs so they get their new raids. A month strike by casuals would be frightening - a months strike by hardcore pains would be a yawn - who in game would even notice?
    I'm not convinced I like that attitude, but I've no doubt that you're absolutely right; it's casual players who provide the vast, vast majority of the playerbase in this game and it's high-time they stopped being fed reconstituted and watered down "content", just so that Blizzard can justify making rock hard raids from normal up.

    But to the OP's question:

    1) Fix the actual raiding platform; four modes is too much. Downtune normal mode and make it flexible, with heroic only being available on 25-man. The next step is putting up with the almighty din that'd come from 10-man heroic raiders, then three months down the line the raiding game ends up in far healthier shape again because 25-man guilds were salvaged. Leave LFR where it is. Lastly, remove the Thunder/Warforged items, they're not achieving anything.

    2) Drop the size of raids to 9 to 12 bosses per tier, and then ensure that there is at least one dungeon per patch. Scrap challenge modes, make heroic modes truly heroic, and give them rewards equal to LFR (meta-achievements can be used for mounts/mogging gear). Stop, however, with the rail-roaded, twenty minute, 3-boss pieces of shit we've been served up for years and start thinking back to the original Stratholme and Blackrock Spire. THAT is what a dungeon should be, and it forms endgame for casual players. Then, reinstate the dungeon sets of The Burning Crusade such as the Oblivion Raiment and the like so that players can still progress in them.

    3) Overhaul the profession system entirely so that it, too, can be a part of endgame. Alternative Chat recently spoke about this, but professions have been entirely stripped of their depth since mid-Wrath. It sucks. Systems could be put in place for skilled crafters so that they can make a plan, but see it get a bonus if they're particularly skilled (via skill-based profession quests, number of patterns known, etc/etc). Bonuses could include them being already 2/2 upgraded, or simply a higher item level or with more secondary stats. The absolute gold here would be a cool proc. For the love of Jeebus, bring back crafting specializations and make mastery time consuming.

    4) Major lore events need to stop happening in raids. Domination Point was a great example of how to do this, and the new tech for random events on the Timeless Isle make more possibilities land squarely on the table. Reward exploration outside of quest objectives with cool visual content rather than items destined to become vendor materials (but make them repeatable, similar to the fall of the Lich King).

    5) Develop scenarios so that they can be placed earlier in the game and act as proving grounds on the way up. I'd be particularly keen on solo-scenarios that revealed major lore points such as the death of Illidan or the destruction of Yogg-Saron. Players in a "raid" of NPC's can then be taught boss-related mechanics that increase their skill level while helping them to enjoy the rich lore of the game, rather than the dull proving grounds which don't really do much of anything.

    6) For fuck's sake, fix PvP. Stop treating it like a meaningless side game and give the community some respect. Balance it properly with PvP specs rather than trying to shoe-horn every spec into raiding, then make the content more interesting than merely random BG's or a bit of arena. Bring back world PvP zones, and make some more from the earlier game but scale players so that there's no pointless ganking. Then make a set of PvP campaigns so that PvP players can enjoy the sense of progression from the "new content" angle rather than merely farming gear.

    7) Beef up the difficulty of levelling quests and dungeons. For crying out loud it's too easy, too fast and laughably pointless. Failure isn't introduced until level 90 and that's all kinds of wrong. Levels can then be made more meaningful rather than largely forgettable, while also making casual players appreciate the content more. Stop treating new players as if they're droopy-eyed armless children who can't press buttons. They're not.

    8) Lastly, and by no means least, to Blizzard: Stop blaming one side of the community when the other side cries. It's putting people at each other's throat. Take responsibility for bad design decisions rather than blaming an intangible group of people, then hiding behind "we have all the data". Stop assuming everyone wants to raid just because you do, and think about how to provide meaningful content for casual players rather than useless, queued mini-games that have no real impact on a character.

    That's my starter for 10.
    Last edited by The Caretaker; 2013-10-31 at 02:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    6) For fuck's sake, fix PvP. Stop treating it like a meaningless side game and give the community some respect. Balance it properly with PvP specs rather than trying to shoe-horn every spec into raiding, then make the content more interesting than merely random BG's or a bit of arena. Bring back world PvP zones, and make some more from the earlier game but scale players so that there's no pointless ganking. Then make a set of PvP campaigns so that PvP players can enjoy the sense of progression from the "new content" angle rather than merely farming gear.
    Whilst slightly off topic - I do agree - and always have done - but imo to fix this PvE and PvP need to be 2 seperate parts of WoW not linked.

    Sorry for the slight side track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good. It typically shows that on line competitive PC games are played LOOOOONG after they have been published.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I'm not convinced I like that attitude, but I've no doubt that you're absolutely right; it's casual players who provide the vast, vast majority of the playerbase in this game and it's high-time they stopped being fed reconstituted and watered down "content", just so that Blizzard can justify making rock hard raids from normal up.

    But to the OP's question:

    1) Fix the actual raiding platform; four modes is too much. Downtune normal mode and make it flexible, with heroic only being available on 25-man. The next step is putting up with the almighty din that'd come from 10-man heroic raiders, then three months down the line the raiding game ends up in far healthier shape again because 25-man guilds were salvaged. Leave LFR where it is. Lastly, remove the Thunder/Warforged items, they're not achieving anything.

    2) Drop the size of raids to 9 to 12 bosses per tier, and then ensure that there is at least one dungeon per patch. Scrap challenge modes, make heroic modes truly heroic, and give them rewards equal to LFR (meta-achievements can be used for mounts/mogging gear). Stop, however, with the rail-roaded, twenty minute, 3-boss pieces of shit we've been served up for years and start thinking back to the original Stratholme and Blackrock Spire. THAT is what a dungeon should be, and it forms endgame for casual players. Then, reinstate the dungeon sets of The Burning Crusade such as the Oblivion Raiment and the like so that players can still progress in them.

    3) Overhaul the profession system entirely so that it, too, can be a part of endgame. Alternative Chat recently spoke about this, but professions have been entirely stripped of their depth since mid-Wrath. It sucks. Systems could be put in place for skilled crafters so that they can make a plan, but see it get a bonus if they're particularly skilled (via skill-based profession quests, number of patterns known, etc/etc). Bonuses could include them being already 2/2 upgraded, or simply a higher item level or with more secondary stats. The absolute gold here would be a cool proc. For the love of Jeebus, bring back crafting specializations and make mastery time consuming.

    4) Major lore events need to stop happening in raids. Domination Point was a great example of how to do this, and the new tech for random events on the Timeless Isle make more possibilities land squarely on the table. Reward exploration outside of quest objectives with cool visual content rather than items destined to become vendor materials (but make them repeatable, similar to the fall of the Lich King).

    5) Develop scenarios so that they can be placed earlier in the game and act as proving grounds on the way up. I'd be particularly keen on solo-scenarios that revealed major lore points such as the death of Illidan or the destruction of Yogg-Saron. Players in a "raid" of NPC's can then be taught boss-related mechanics that increase their skill level while helping them to enjoy the rich lore of the game, rather than the dull proving grounds which don't really do much of anything.

    6) For fuck's sake, fix PvP. Stop treating it like a meaningless side game and give the community some respect. Balance it properly with PvP specs rather than trying to shoe-horn every spec into raiding, then make the content more interesting than merely random BG's or a bit of arena. Bring back world PvP zones, and make some more from the earlier game but scale players so that there's no pointless ganking. Then make a set of PvP campaigns so that PvP players can enjoy the sense of progression from the "new content" angle rather than merely farming gear.

    That's my starter for 10.
    I can agree on the raiding vision, keeping LFR, making flex the new normal and heroic 25man I would have enabled on raid release. Let people who want heroic the choice to go in off the bat.

    As for dungeons I disagree on some of it. Making dungeons hard is what drove players away in Cata. I would have Heroic dungeons and Champion Dungeons. Champion dungeons would use a flex style system where you queue with a full group and it presents a harder version of the same dungeon with better loot and theres also 2 longer dungeons in this mode. I fully agree on Vanilla/TBC dungeon sets, bring in those with a quest to upgrade them down the line. Challenge modes could remain if they are popular and are accessed as they are now.


    Fully agree on Scenarios and professions. I would also like to see more dungeon drops for professions and quests tied to doing something in said dungeon (like BRD smithing for example for some rare stuff).

  14. #414
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBloke101 View Post
    Whilst slightly off topic - I do agree - and always have done - but imo to fix this PvE and PvP need to be 2 seperate parts of WoW not linked.

    Sorry for the slight side track.
    It's not really off track; I think it would help the casual player base because it would potentially stop them being so maligned.

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Making dungeons hard is what drove players away in Cata.
    It wasn't; it was the fact there were no other options for gearing up. My dungeon model would have levelling dungeons as now, rename the current heroics to "Level Cap" (where you queue up and farm valor), then have the heroics I described.

    And if people want to queue up for heroics, let them. I hate this "CM's and heroic scenarios are too hard for the queue" shit.

    Let the fucking players decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I fully agree on Vanilla/TBC dungeon sets, bring in those with a quest to upgrade them down the line. Challenge modes could remain if they are popular and are accessed as they are now.
    Upgradeable dungeon sets is a great idea.

    Tie that in with professions, maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by MadBloke101 View Post
    Whilst slightly off topic - I do agree - and always have done - but imo to fix this PvE and PvP need to be 2 seperate parts of WoW not linked.

    Sorry for the slight side track.
    Why cant they have a separate "PVP specialization" like how you have tank healer dps. You can have "PVP spec" Yeh it might be tricky to do. But you could have PVP healer spec (whos main purpose is healing/cleansing and all round survival tricks), PVP tank spec (whos focus is flag carrying/objective holding with cc), and pvp dps whos all about burst damage with some cc/mobility.

    Yeh it would be a fair amount of work but it would be far better than trying to balance skills that work in PVE then are hugely overpowered in PVP.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You haven't done LFR since DS, have you? Tell me how you're going to get through Malkorok, Nazgrim, or Garrosh with everyone parked and spamming 2-button rotations.
    What? Are we playing the same game or are you just clueless? People do this all the time which is why I don't lfr on alts anymore.

  17. #417
    Mechagnome BlahBlahFrigginBlah's Avatar
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    i think lfr could be signifigantly improved without making any changes at all to the in-game system.

    i think both socially and constructively it could be improved by simply removing the naming and shaming ethos from the forums.

    as it stands the trolls, griefers, ninjas, lazies, bads, and <insert whatever else applies here> are the only ones that benefit from the system.
    untill blizz steps up and ensures some form of personal responsibility returns to what you do in-game nothing will change.

    it has to be the players changing before any improvements to the game will make any difference.
    i say a lot of things.
    some of them may be sarcastic, rude, or insulting.
    but if you read carefully, i dont aim to insult people, and very rarely trolling ~ its my honest opinion. if you think im talking about you, go get some coffee and read it again later.
    have a nice day.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    I think that the "raid power" of raid gear should be decoupled from the outside-the-instance power of gear in general.
    Absolutely. Just like PvP gear has PvP power, raid gear should have Raid Power. Actually, hit rating sort of worked like that, but recently they've been adding lots of non-raid/non-dungeon content that requires hit cap. Personally I wouldn't mind if they lowered all non-raiding mobs to level 90, removed hit rating from all non-raid gear, and made the baseline hit rating for everyone such that they could hit at 100% for level 90 with no hit rating whatsoever. Then raiders can get their hit rating gear and feel more powerful without then coming into non-raid content and decimating everything in sight. It's ridiculous that right now a BiS raider does ever three times more damage than a LFR raider on gear alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    It's not really off track; I think it would help the casual player base because it would potentially stop them being so maligned.



    It wasn't; it was the fact there were no other options for gearing up. My dungeon model would have levelling dungeons as now, rename the current heroics to "Level Cap" (where you queue up and farm valor), then have the heroics I described.

    And if people want to queue up for heroics, let them. I hate this "CM's and heroic scenarios are too hard for the queue" shit.

    Let the fucking players decide.



    Upgradeable dungeon sets is a great idea.

    Tie that in with professions, maybe?
    I think you and I describe the same thing with dungeons. I just called mine heroics for the easier setting then champion mode for the far more difficult one. Catas dungeon difficulty was that as you say it was the only way to gear up. Because it was hard and LFD people were used to wrath level difficulty only for dungeons.

    I fully agree let people queue up for these things, let people who want "heroics" queue up for those and any higher setting let that go on there. I would probably make the harder ones require you to have a full group similar to flex. It would also make it so people try to form their own groups. But I would not be against full on match making instead for it.

    Professions could certainly tie into it. I can see that you can do it. You have to farm some materials for a portion of the upgrade quest (so say you get 4 set bonus the upgrade quest chain unlocks and you upgrade each item by doing various tasks. Killing bosses SP scenarios. and a profession related upgrade). These materials could then be given to a smith who makes a certain item for your quest that when trade to you, you then use a quest item that merges the items to upgrade.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    I did mention integration. Not merely copying Timeless Isle. it's about the concept, not the present execution. Imagine lots of zones, each with elements from Timeless Isle, like platforming sections, hidden areas, challenging enemies, little useful buffs scattered around in various forms, random-time-based events, etc. It's about the increased interactivity with the game's environment, not waiting for rares to spawn. On the contrary, removing achievements that spoil hidden parts of the game, as well as collecting achievements for the same reason, making spawn timers far more random, rare enemies actually rare; adding some behavioural elements to flora and fauna, would be better in my opinion. I am not wishing for more Timeless Isles. I think that the Timeless Isle was a worthy first step of a up-to-now severely crippled person. Clumsy, not much of a quality step, a near disaster even, but vital and immensely important nonetheless.



    Of course different people like different things; so a raider at heart won't be satisfied much with anything but raiding.However similarly, an adventurer won't get satisfied with anything but adventuring. He/she will participate in raiding, if it is the only thing available, but not happily. The trick is, in my opinion, to offer people, to each group of activities, what they truly want; with each part of the game being equally well developed, in quality and quantity.

    Vanilla, lasted for most casuals for far more than just a couple of months though; due exactly to the quantity of content, not just the type. There were six main campaigns, not just two (and two that are mostly the same in essence, pertaining to the same subject, in similar ways). There were about 38 zones, not just 8. Players had to figure out what to do, they didn't have giant arrows pointing them to places. Wandering the world was actually dangerous;getting close to death or dying was a regular phenomenon, not a sudden recollection of a long forgotten state. Things took time and effort to be accomplished, and that added quite a lot to the longevity of the game. Now,with the excuse of "quality of life improvements" the game plays itself to a great extent; whatever it doesn't do for you it tells you how to do it ("Move away from the front of the fire-breathing dragon when he breaths fire." Ow really? So that was what all that fire in its nostrils and that inhaling move were about huh? Would you look at that!) and it has lost so much of its gaming feel as well as its open world feel. It's like it's filled with comfortable little hubs, to obtain and carry out comfortable little quests about dispatching enemies that pretty much die on their own and collect things that shine like watchtowers, because thinking, trying, failing and trying again, adjusting, searching, interacting in depth, getting challenged and all the others elements of videogames are, for some reason synonymous with forbidden things in an adventuring videogame of all things. Hence why I mentioned quantity. Developing 8-10 zones with extremely guided activities is far less time-consuming and far cheaper than 30+ zones filled with content, that increases even more due to the interaction of the content of one zone with another's.

    There is also the mythical beginner, that for what whatever reason, according to the developers is unable to learn how to play the game,and thus has to be humored through the leveling process by the game feigning to be beaten by him/her. Nevermind the way so many gamers started as... what else but beginners, and slowly, but steadily became increasingly better performing at games. Somehow the gene that allowed people to get better at activities by trying them out, and allowed 7-year olds to be able to play challenging games, has become extinct it seems.

    I do understand the practical limitations of maintaining a genuine open world game. It's just too expensive and time-consuming for most developers, and a really bad time for Blizzard to go about convincing their investors to support such a move now, that the game is declining in profits. But theoreticaly, to me, that is the reason why the game feels so stale:that regardless of the developers intentions/limitations, it is no longer the open world game it was supposed to be and was during vanilla.
    The issue is, is that the game's core demographic has changed from the "we want to explore" type to the "we want end game" type. It's been stated that more than double the amount of current subscribers have ever played wow, so that means at one point within the game's history there was a paradigm shift to push more directed and dynamic content at the sacrifice of free roam readiness in not just Blizzard's point of view, but the rest of the very community you preach for.

    Vanilla appealed to those in the open world, and you could say that it did last a while for a lot of people. Hell it could have lasted them expansions, but when they finally reach level cap and want to do something more in say wotlk, they are met with raiding. The progression to pro-raid and anti-open world is akin only to scale at which the amount of casual players either grew bored with questing or simply wished for something new that was well within their league.

    One could also state that the complexity of "try, fail, try again" has been sapped from the open world and placed within raiding. Never before have boss encounters been so complex or unforgiving, nor have there ever been the shear amount of raiders we have now. And the respects of players being of a much higher average skill level than there ever was in vanilla having access to resources that were never endorsed by blizzard, let alone heard of by a majority. These things we have now trivialize the mystery that might be the game for the sake of convenience because that is how the game was made. The game was made to absorb as much time as possible, and while the intrigue of an open world and discovery can no longer facilitate that, an essence of challenging and intuitive boss encounters can and does.

    Additionally I remember quite the many threads even fairly recently preaching the exact opposite of how the zones work, that there was no over-arching story and it all simply felt thrown together in a hobbled mess of 38 zones. There was no clear villain and what villains you did fight you didn't know why. A shift from a massive amount of "go hear kill this" with vague references that harken back only to those who played the warcraft rpg series is not a good set up for any kind of story telling. Open worldness aside, because even skyrim could pull off open world with an over-arching story that meant something, something vanilla did not in any respect. Each storyline felt all over the place, while amounting to very little. I would definitely place myself among those who'd much rather have the care of a quality story-line over the mess that is a story without meaning.

    Perhaps I am looking too far into this, but I do know one thing for sure, a world of warcraft that was far more open world with much less raiding would simply facilitate a different type of boredom than the current direction. Too many things readily trivialize that notion and what utility won't destroy, repetition will as it does with the current direction.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

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