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  1. #41
    What do you consider casual? There is a guild that raids 9 hours a week and is 12/14H...that is the definition of casual playing. Casual is not an excuse to be shit at a game and its really sad when people think that because they are casual they can just suck and are 100% fine with that.

  2. #42
    Pit Lord Lemposs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    My own theory is that a good chunk of folks simply weren't enthusiastic about the overall vibe of the content, nor various changes made to player mechanics. Pandas and talent trees, for example, were both quite polarizing.

    I'd be curious to see how many players dropped their sub before hitting 90.
    My theory is there came stronger competion on the market; Rift, Tera, GW2 etc. even F2P games taking some percentages. It all adds up in the end..
    Last edited by Lemposs; 2013-10-31 at 03:18 AM.

  3. #43
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    My own theory is that a good chunk of folks simply weren't enthusiastic about the overall vibe of the content, nor various changes made to player mechanics. Pandas and talent trees, for example, were both quite polarizing.

    I'd be curious to see how many players dropped their sub before hitting 90.
    My thought is most of the teens said "pandas, wtf I'm a big boy I don't wanna play with Pandas" and that gave cause for them to dismiss all the great things about MOP.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    What do you consider casual? There is a guild that raids 9 hours a week and is 12/14H...that is the definition of casual playing. Casual is not an excuse to be shit at a game and its really sad when people think that because they are casual they can just suck and are 100% fine with that.
    I'm not really correlating it with time played, more of an attitude, I guess? I don't know.

    But it's pretty clear that the majority of people aren't interested in doing organized raiding, and it can't all be because they're "shit" at the game, as you put it, can it?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    My theory is was stronger competion on the market; Rift, Tera, GW2 etc. even F2P games taking some percentages. It all adds up in the end..
    It's a somewhat old, somewhat tired genre. Nothing has come along to replace MMORPGs but on the other hand, they haven't seen any particular innovation.

    I think WoW is doing fine given that it is saddled with a small but significant number of vocal players who have been playing for almost a decade and really can't deal with change.

  6. #46
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    The BC model was fine imo... heroics were somewhat of a challenge (until you out geared it) Kara was pug-able (i actually ran kara pugs often spamming trade) ZA and Gruul's Lair too although they could be abit more of a challenge. And at the end, when Sunwell was launched, you had the gear vendor to farm... you got really good gear, but not better then the people raiding sunwell.

    I was on a low to median pop server... maybe some people other high pop with top raiding guilds were able to run more.

    Also.. i highly enjoyed ICC in wrath... the one and only time my server actually had GDKP runs.

  7. #47
    Field Marshal inkberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Then, really, is there even any content for casuals aside from pointless side activities?
    Nope. I don't see any reason as to why there should be, either. You don't beat a game by only playing half of it. If you don't have the time to commit to it then you should reconsider how you choose to spend your time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    This is a viewpoint Blizzard wishes would just go away.
    Yeah, too bad it isn't going anywhere though.
    The game was fine before they put in LFR. It has only gone downhill since Cataclysm launch. LFR isn't helping one bit.

  8. #48
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    flex mode.
    it does what LFR was meant to do, be a easier relaxed version of the actual raid.

    but LFR has to be retard-proofed due to the completely random quality of people in LFR and the fact that there is no communication between them such as vent or mumble.
    But Flex doesn't accomplish what LFR does. By that, I mean that to partake in Flex, you have to have a group. Many of the LFR users don't have easy access to a group that will just let them play with the minimum reqs. You can try to pug a group (though, by doing that... there is no point to Flex or LFR as it would be the way things were in Wrath), you could try out OQ and potentially run in to people who put you down because you lack the gear to compete or you could try OpenRaid, but there again, there are reqs and usually those are high to a point that is silly.

    I'm not saying that I like the way LFR is now... I would much rather have a raid that doesn't have people who wish to "troll" or who afk... but it serves a purpose for those who don't have the means to get a semi decent flex group or who can't partake in fully organized raiding due to whatever reason they have.

    I don't really mind LFR. I am not in a position where I feel the need to use it as my source of raiding (starting a new guild and am currently not raiding) and I don't really care that they have gear that is comparable to what I got when I was raiding normals and heroics.

    At this point, I think we should let LFR do its thing and wait and see. With the advent of Flex, LFR will slowly die (at least, that's what I think is going to end up happening) and we will see what Blizzard does from there. For those who do LFR and hate it... if you have the chance, check out Flex or Normal. If those options don't work for you... grit your teeth, do your runs and take it to the official forums. Craft a well thought out, well written analysis of what LFR does and doesn't do and present it to Blizzard in a fashion that isn't insulting people and who knows what you might accomplish.


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  9. #49
    Pit Lord Sinndra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    There is something wrong with it, but we can only guess as to what the main reason for sub loss this time around has been. I personally doubt it's due to lfr specifically.
    i think its a combination of ideas. people dont mind grinding if the reward is worth the effort. the amount of effort needed, to deal with trolls and elitists and just general pricks in LFR does not equal the rewards. people dont want to grind for their gear while having to put up with the horrible community behaviors in LFR.

    and sorry but normals are just brutal in difficulty for most players. if you dont have any trouble, then you and your group are above the masses in skill. normals are very unforgiving for friends and family groups. people that just want to enjoy the game, and have a nice little bit of gear to show for it. again its reward vs effort.

    Wrath was on the right track, loved running Naxx gear runs for new guildies, or friends that i got to come join me in WoW. ToC dungeons started us down a bad path, giving us a 5 man that nullified the need for previous tier gear/alt runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.
    That is the real stupidity of the hardcore raiders who want to get rid of LFR. If they do get rid of LFR, it simply means that we will have 4 boss raid tiers and a ton of 5 man heroic dungeons being made instead.

  11. #51
    Pit Lord Lemposs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It's a somewhat old, somewhat tired genre. Nothing has come along to replace MMORPGs but on the other hand, they haven't seen any particular innovation.

    I think WoW is doing fine given that it is saddled with a small but significant number of vocal players who have been playing for almost a decade and really can't deal with change.
    Yes but not all prefered orcs and humans or balance or the setting but it was the only really polished and stable MMO. So when a game with horses and goats in a candyland setting, came out and was also polished, people who prefered that left

  12. #52
    I'll post my thoughts again on the matter since I've done it all the time!

    End game will be raiding with heroics as the "side" end game. This is Karazhan/ZA going along with TBC heroics I'm talking about. That is the progression that should be offered for the more casual playerbase.

    This would involve spiting 10 and 25m raids again to their own zones, which would be wonderful to me. These zones would have single difficulty setting, much like TBC, where early bosses were easier with difficulty scaling up quickly through the zone and through the expansion. So early bosses of T17(first tier of new xpac) would be easier than early bosses T18, which would be easier than early bosses of T19 etc etc. The last couple bosses of the previous tier would be harder than the first couple of the next tier, so if people can stuck, they can go to next tier or previous to kill bosses.

    Each difficulty would have a flex option to allow for people to "do" content they missed out on.

    Also have 5 man heroics with hard content. Current "heroics" would be new normals and current challenge modes would be new heroics. They wouldn't have timers or medals but would have the same difficulty with loot added that mirrors that of current LFR. New 5 mans would be added with each tier, at least 2 per, to allow for some manner of "catch-up" for people who come in late, but you wouldn't be able to walk in to "new" tier heroics without having some decent gear from previous tiers "heroics" or raids.


    That's my "plan" for fixing the situation of LFR and current raiding. It would take more devs to do it, but it's not like Blizzard is short on money.
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  13. #53
    LFR is fine, it's the random finder that is the problem.. force people to make their own group and you'll see a lot less failure suddenly.

    Without any responsibility, people will go afk, pull early, go in without gems/enchants and be bad. If it's a pre-made group, it will be to the discretion of the raid leader.

    Won't happen, but I had a blast doing LFR full guild groups at beginning of the expansion when we were gearing up. I had zero fun queuing alone. So that content is obviously not for me, but I am pretty sure people don't like it either.

    Game would be a lot better with mix of the old raid finder (the one you made yourself available for specific raids or dungeons with your role) and a system like OpenRaid/oQueue built-in. Or allow us to do LFR in 10 man, but without queues.

    Anyways, no point in removing it, just don't run it, but there is always ways to improve the experience out of it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by robotis View Post
    I'm not really correlating it with time played, more of an attitude, I guess? I don't know.

    But it's pretty clear that the majority of people aren't interested in doing organized raiding, and it can't all be because they're "shit" at the game, as you put it, can it?
    I disagree, I feel that Flex was one of the best things added for casuals in recent times - there are even "Flex Guilds" which just clear Wing 1-4 in a couple hours each week. LFR is not a place for "casuals", LFR is a place for people that just don't seem to give a shit. I have run LFR one time this patch and that was just to see how bad it was....it was pretty bad. People just afk and autoattack bosses, that isn't casual, that is being shit at the game and being a lazy prick. Casual and not caring are 2 complete different thing. I personally hope to see LFR get removed in whatever the next expansion just because LFR has turned into a boiling pot of shit in my opinion.

    The problem is that people are happy with being sub-par (or worse) and LFR promotes that type of play. There is no personal accountability and it gives what truly are "casuals" a bad name.
    Last edited by Novx; 2013-10-31 at 03:31 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Maybe if they aren't devoted players try don't belong in this type of game...

    But I would add a lot of hard dungeons. Like hour or two hour long ones. If thu can't do an hour then they can't do LFR now.

    Or put them in proving grounds till they can do average dps. Then flex.
    WoW would be in a grave dead without casuals mate, they fund your addiction.

  16. #56
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    They should step up to flex, even if it needs to get toned down for them to be able to do so.
    So basically you make flex raids become... LFR?

    If an MMO can't force a bit of interaction and community onto a playerbase then whats the point? If people complain that they "like to solo", that's fine, you just can't have the nice(r) things.
    Since when are LFR items "nice?"
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  17. #57
    Do people consider LFR to be endgame content? :S I am confused.

    The people that I know that stepped down in their wow time to play 100% casually does the following

    Level alts with friends
    Pet Battles
    Occational BG with friends
    Occational Arena with friends
    Some achievement hunting
    Old Raids
    Timeless Isle shit
    Sometimes (a.k.a. when I force them) a flex clear

    None of them even touch LFR. I honestly do not know how anyone can consider LFR endgame content, and the ultimate one of that.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #58
    Normal raids....that was kind of the point of hardmodes...the hardcores get there hardmode raid, the casuals get there normal raid.

  19. #59
    Senior Memb- malkara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inkberry View Post
    Nope. I don't see any reason as to why there should be, either. You don't beat a game by only playing half of it. If you don't have the time to commit to it then you should reconsider how you choose to spend your time.



    Yeah, too bad it isn't going anywhere though.
    The game was fine before they put in LFR. It has only gone downhill since Cataclysm launch. LFR isn't helping one bit.
    I'm afraid that if I start pointing out flaws in your words I'll get infracted to say the least.
    I'll say this much though. There are people with full time jobs in this world, that actually like playing this game.
    Some of these people undoubtedly would like to raid, yet can't because of their stressful work-free time balance.
    According to you having other commitments means you aren't allowed to experience aspects of a game you pay for and enjoy.
    How exactly is a model -where not only paying for but also spending all of your free time in a game required to see all it has to offer- viable?
    You don't have the time to be raiding every night or whatever guilds require = you don't get to see lore thats an essential part of the game?
    Good luck selling that.
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    Are you conscious in the sense of being aware of your own awareness?

  20. #60
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr4vitas View Post
    Normal raids....that was kind of the point of hardmodes...the hardcores get there hardmode raid, the casuals get there normal raid.
    Except you need a raiding guild to do normal mode raids. (PuGs were never and have never been plentiful for current raiding content)

    Not everyone has the time commitment to be in a raiding guild.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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