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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I hate to bust the truth to you but LFR doesn't hand you rewards without working for it, can someone do nothing? Yeah but the majority of the people in there are working for it and they are working more than they would have to if they didn't have to drag an afk across the finish line. Saying you dont have to work for it is like you got flipped off on the highway after being cut off and so you go around telling everyone that no one knows how to drive and everyone is awful behind the wheel but you passed 300 other cars that abided by the rules of the road but you don't remember those people.
    It the grand scheme of things, you don't have to do much to succeed in LFR especially now with determination buff. And while yes, you still have to log on, move your arrow keys a few times, click on an ability and breathe all the while you're doing it, it's not demanding you to do much else.

    Your characters have limits in any raiding environment, Normal and Hardcore force you to get closer it. LFR takes you as you are.

    And even if you couldn't piggyback on the few players, and I mean few, who are obeying mechanics and have at least their rotation spells keybound, Blizzard would intervene.
    It's the nature of LFR, if everyone decided not to touch a button and completion rates dropped there would be intervention. That's the purpose of LFR.

  2. #642
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    It the grand scheme of things, you don't have to do much to succeed in LFR especially now with determination buff. And while yes, you still have to log on, move your arrow keys a few times, click on an ability and breathe all the while you're doing it, it's not demanding you to do much else.

    Your characters have limits in any raiding environment, Normal and Hardcore force you to get closer it. LFR takes you as you are.

    And even if you couldn't piggyback on the few players, and I mean few, who are obeying mechanics and have at least their rotation spells keybound, Blizzard would intervene.
    It's the nature of LFR, if everyone decided not to touch a button and completion rates dropped there would be intervention. That's the purpose of LFR.
    Yes, exactly.

    The point of lfr is to let people get loot (aka see the content) without needing to be particularly competent. Anyone who moans that people in LFR aren't playing well is an idiot, frankly. It's specifically designed for that audience.
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  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    It the grand scheme of things, you don't have to do much to succeed in LFR especially now with determination buff. And while yes, you still have to log on, move your arrow keys a few times, click on an ability and breathe all the while you're doing it, it's not demanding you to do much else.

    Your characters have limits in any raiding environment, Normal and Hardcore force you to get closer it. LFR takes you as you are.

    And even if you couldn't piggyback on the few players, and I mean few, who are obeying mechanics and have at least their rotation spells keybound, Blizzard would intervene.
    It's the nature of LFR, if everyone decided not to touch a button and completion rates dropped there would be intervention. That's the purpose of LFR.
    Do it, I dare you. Go get 13 players and agree that they will go into wing 4 SoO LFR and just go afk, you will control the kicks so you cant be kicked. Just stay there afk for every single fight and see how long it takes to finish the fight. Then post it on Youtube as proof. Let's see if Blizzard interveins too. Prove it. Until you prove it you are just talking out of your butt and making shit up because it sounds good to you and reinforces your view point. It means nothing until you prove it.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Not solved. Allowing casuals to experience the content one content drop later means they will never fight garrosh until the next expansion and by then people will be doing the new content. Current system allows all players to do dungeons in first tier and raid content, your hack version would half their content for one drop until something new came along. If you think this is a good ideal then I suggest an experiment, next expansion you only do dungeons in 6.0 and refuse any raid content, then in 6.2 you will be allowed to do 6.0 LFR and dungeons, then in 6.4 you can do 6.2 LFR and dungeons, and not do any 6.4 content ever because then you will only be allowed to do dungeons in 7. Then once 7.0 comes out you can come here and tell us all how much you enjoyed it so that is proof that it will work for everyone else. Its like bitching about flying mounts but refusing to only use ground mounts unless everyone is forced to do it. You do it and see how much you actually enjoy it.
    I think people use the term casual to loosely. I know plenty of casual players that killed Garrosh in normal either via pugs or 1 day raid guilds. The players that did not get to kill the end boss was the players that were either really bad, or had no intention or desire to actually do it. The latter is probably the most common as believe it or not, there are plenty of people in WoW who couldnt care less about raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    One advantage to lfr is that you can gear up your alts in LFR so if your raid needs 1 less healer and 1 more dps you can switch characters and keep on raiding with your guild. Under your mismanagement that alt would always be 1 tier behind. Its a fail. Most bosses would have to be gutted due to not having 2 tanks, so fights would become massively easier and people already bitch that you can gear up for less effort than a raider, you going to give out good rewards for even less effort? Good thing you don't work for Blizzard.
    So you mean the advantage is that we now can get burnt out even faster by running the same raid even more times per lockout on more characters than ever, being forced into a random group consisting mostly of bad players and people that are AFK, a general bad atmosphere and having to carry the entire group to success or rely on someone else in there doing it.

    Yes, the sounds like a lovely advantage. Having a lower gear inflation so that the previous tiers normal mode was 19 item levels lower instead of 31 item levels lower so gearing up alts through the last tier was viable through making a fun beer run with friends and/or pugs, with the added benefit of prolonging the life length of tiers and making raid content last the entire expansion rather than one patch. Yeah, that raid design sounds like a clearly inferior option.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #645
    I propose player housing, oh wait kill 2 birds with one stone! Wildstar (now with 100% less fake raiding then then the warcraft)

    But being excided for wildstar aside (still play and enjoy warcraft very much, leveling a character with a friend is a blast be it to easy and way to short but a blast) Endgame 5.4 is beyond boring its 4 difficultys of one raid, sure i could plant some useless crap on a farm, go do old dailies that hardly matter, go pvp? on the timeless isle, do rated pvp for a different gear set id personally never use.

    Player housing is a great thing for casual end game, go hunting for rare house prop drops, decorate to your hearts content, throw some partys for guild and/or friends, do some housing dungeons (essentially scenarios, which by the way are boring and a waste of dev time in wacraft /endopinion) work to farm up mats and craft stuff since you wont be getting any of that raid gear being a "casual" player. Housing, seriously it is the answer! and maybe put a little freaking effort in to the game and work your wait up the ranks raiding is fun and doesnt have to be such a huge time commitment that you feel bad about it (seriously just quit if you feel bad about it) or if you truly can't commit to much time.
    Last edited by Barcasaur; 2013-11-01 at 02:42 PM.
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  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Well not everyone has a time machine to go back to the beginning of mop and stay in a raiding group, and on openraid they had one group that actually went back and did tot and they were short handed at a time when I could not join them.

    I hate to bust the truth to you but LFR doesn't hand you rewards without working for it, can someone do nothing? Yeah but the majority of the people in there are working for it and they are working more than they would have to if they didn't have to drag an afk across the finish line. Saying you dont have to work for it is like you got flipped off on the highway after being cut off and so you go around telling everyone that no one knows how to drive and everyone is awful behind the wheel but you passed 300 other cars that abided by the rules of the road but you don't remember those people.
    If you read again i said my warrior hit 90 1 month ago and is 537. My main is way above that, and is due to having worked from the start of the expansion.

    I have done my fair share of LFR, trust me. I run ToT LFR on an alt for secrets, 3/4 of the raid still dies to Durumus maze.
    I am the kind of guy that tries to lead and organize in LFR. In ToT we had nests on Ji Kun.. you often had to ask for a few minutes before anyone spoke up and wanted to do it (and then failed at it, never asked how just said "ok").

    Now in SoO we have Galakras, which is the same thing. Took ~5 min of asking last time i was there before there was a group for towers.
    Most people just want to tunnel a target and go "omg gold again". LFR is so forgiving that you can have most of the players go "derpmode" and still kill the boss.

    Dont get me wrong, the first time i played WoW i was so bad, but i have gained experience over the years. Thats a problem for newcomers, LFR is not a good place to learn the game since it allows for tunneling through content. There are no inbuilt guides on reforge, gemming, stat choices, talents, rotations etc.
    As a new player you don't know about sites like mmo-champion, askmrrobot and so on.

    Proving grounds might be a step in the right direction for newcomers, if Blizzard really fleshes it out.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Yes, exactly.

    The point of lfr is to let people get loot (aka see the content) without needing to be particularly competent. Anyone who moans that people in LFR aren't playing well is an idiot, frankly. It's specifically designed for that audience.
    Exactly, LFR exists so these people will consume a grey copy of raiding instead of having non-raid content designed for them allowing Blizzard to use all post-leveling resources on making raiders more content more often. Anyone calling for the end of LFR that likes lots of raid content is shooting themselves in the face.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    It the grand scheme of things, you don't have to do much to succeed in LFR especially now with determination buff. And while yes, you still have to log on, move your arrow keys a few times, click on an ability and breathe all the while you're doing it, it's not demanding you to do much else.

    Your characters have limits in any raiding environment, Normal and Hardcore force you to get closer it. LFR takes you as you are.

    And even if you couldn't piggyback on the few players, and I mean few, who are obeying mechanics and have at least their rotation spells keybound, Blizzard would intervene.
    It's the nature of LFR, if everyone decided not to touch a button and completion rates dropped there would be intervention. That's the purpose of LFR.
    While LFR is far from what would be considered demanding or interesting by the more seasoned and capable WoW player, what you're saying is obviously nonsense. The thing is, I can imagine you actually mean/believe it.

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Yes, exactly.

    The point of lfr is to let people get loot (aka see the content) without needing to be particularly competent. Anyone who moans that people in LFR aren't playing well is an idiot, frankly. It's specifically designed for that audience.
    Thisssss one... getsss it. Yessss, preciousssss, IT UNDERSSSTANDSSSS THE WORLD!!! IT GETSS IT!

    I never understood why people complain about something so completely avoidable like LFR.

  10. #650
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    While LFR is far from what would be considered demanding or interesting by the more seasoned and capable WoW player, what you're saying is obviously nonsense. The thing is, I can imagine you actually mean/believe it.
    I think he's right - if LFR didn't have any normal/HC raiders joining and was left to the bottom end of the playerbase - the 30-40k timeless ilse geared dpsers etc then blizzard would respond by nerfing LFR into atoms so that it was still doable.

    In the same way that HC modes are specifically designed so that only the very best players can do them, LFR is specifically designed so that anybody (i.e. the most useless players) can do them.
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  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I think he's right - if LFR didn't have any normal/HC raiders joining and was left to the bottom end of the playerbase - the 30-40k timeless ilse geared dpsers etc then blizzard would respond by nerfing LFR into atoms so that it was still doable.

    In the same way that HC modes are specifically designed so that only the very best players can do them, LFR is specifically designed so that anybody (i.e. the most useless players) can do them.
    HC raiders don't do LFR and most Normals don't do it unless they have a lot of free time and need a gear piece to fill a hole, once they get it they dont do it anymore. They already say the best lfr warriors are now in flex and yet LFR has not been nerfed into atoms. They have always gone in and tweeked the numbers a bit to make the fight more manageable but what the other poster was talking about was people going in and doing nothing and blizzard fixing it so it was an instant win, not low end people pulling less numbers than a normal raider.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    So you mean the advantage is that we now can get burnt out even faster by running the same raid even more times per lockout on more characters than ever, being forced into a random group consisting mostly of bad players and people that are AFK, a general bad atmosphere and having to carry the entire group to success or rely on someone else in there doing it.

    Yes, the sounds like a lovely advantage. Having a lower gear inflation so that the previous tiers normal mode was 19 item levels lower instead of 31 item levels lower so gearing up alts through the last tier was viable through making a fun beer run with friends and/or pugs, with the added benefit of prolonging the life length of tiers and making raid content last the entire expansion rather than one patch. Yeah, that raid design sounds like a clearly inferior option.
    You guys need to have an LFR-Hater meeting and have a vote to decide if they are burning out on LFR because they run all 3 difficulties and burning out on it or if they are failing to move into higher difficulty settings and getting effortless rewards because you can't have both and still claim to be a logical reasonable intelligent being.

  12. #652
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    HC raiders don't do LFR and most Normals don't do it unless they have a lot of free time and need a gear piece to fill a hole, once they get it they dont do it anymore. They already say the best lfr warriors are now in flex and yet LFR has not been nerfed into atoms. They have always gone in and tweeked the numbers a bit to make the fight more manageable but what the other poster was talking about was people going in and doing nothing and blizzard fixing it so it was an instant win, not low end people pulling less numbers than a normal raider.
    I know at least a dozen normal/HC raiders who clear LFR on multiple toons every week just cos they like the loot train/playing meter god.

    If he was saying you can do nothing now, he's wrong. If he is saying that no matter how badly the average LFR group plays blizzard will find a way to get them through it if enough of them fail, he's right.
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  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I know at least a dozen normal/HC raiders who clear LFR on multiple toons every week just cos they like the loot train/playing meter god.

    If he was saying you can do nothing now, he's wrong. If he is saying that no matter how badly the average LFR group plays blizzard will find a way to get them through it if enough of them fail, he's right.
    So LFR is good for those HC/Norm raiders for their own guilds progression but its destroying the game for everyone else?

    Hell for allowing blizz to only make raid content to keep casuals chewing on a lesser shade of actual raid content you would think that raiders would be trying to trick people into doing LFR.
    "Hey, I got 24 people ready for flex, you wan in?"
    "Sure!"
    Queues up for LFR....
    "Hey, this is LFR!"
    "Suckers!" - Logs out leaving the rest with the option to complete it or take a 30 min lock out from any queueing.

  14. #654
    LFR and it's inherent problems are a symptom of the bigger issues in wow, not a cause.

    There are 3 major issues for me:

    Wow is very elitist, finding comments calling someone a scrub because they've gemmed for haste instead of mastery, or similar take s afew seconds on pretty much any site you can find. - This leads to the situation with needing the achievement for killing garrosh to join a flex raid on the 2nd week after he was available in that mode and the ilvl 540+ requests and the "report to me for inspection before invite", etc.

    The UI is too easily customised, with complete overhauls, alerts, macro'd actions, etc. - All this does is force complexity to levels where a lot of fights are close to impossible without any addons for anyone outside the top 0.1% of their class.

    The mechanics are too established and too focused on meter balancing (partly because of how easy it is to 'play the meters' instead of playing the game). - This means they have to add gimmicks to every fight with 4-5 phases on a lot of the bosses and masses of adds to manage, etc. Compare this to the bosses in MC, etc and you can quickly see that the complexity has ramped up to critical levels which forces you to read up on tactics before a fight. By adding a step where you have to read up on skills and watch youtube movies before you step into a raid you're instantly dismissing a big chunk of player base.

    All 3 of these lead to a situation where LFR is a requirement for many players, you can't get rid of it without fixing the rest, and fixing those will piss off far more people than having LFR does.

  15. #655
    I'm hardcore at WOW. I used to raid 2 groups 5 days PLUS alt runs. I don't anymore but still am really active. I'm an old geek who actually knows who the elite players are in WOW, watch streams, etc. I have NO PROBLEM with LFR.

    My daughter is a grad student with a part time job. She runs lfr each week on her ONE toon she has and does just enough daily stuff to get 3 coins each week. She has no raiding experience, no desire to do organized raids or time. She just likes to get some new gear once in a while. She has NO PROBLEM with LFR.

    My wife is a complete casual. She works a reg job, she has daily stuff to do. She plays WOW for the pets, the mounts, the professions and working the AH for gold. She has 3 buttons she knows how to use on her keyboard and clicks everything else. If you removed LFR she would never know unless you actually told her. She has NO PROBLEM with LFR.

    We all pay $15 a month, play every day in some fashion at different levels...and have NO PROBLEM with LFR.

    After reading most of the posts in this thread, I'm starting to wonder what kind of person it takes to have such a problem with LFR that it ruins their enjoyment of WOW?

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by isride View Post
    LFR and it's inherent problems are a symptom of the bigger issues in wow, not a cause.

    There are 3 major issues for me:

    Wow is very elitist, finding comments calling someone a scrub because they've gemmed for haste instead of mastery, or similar take s afew seconds on pretty much any site you can find. - This leads to the situation with needing the achievement for killing garrosh to join a flex raid on the 2nd week after he was available in that mode and the ilvl 540+ requests and the "report to me for inspection before invite", etc.

    The UI is too easily customised, with complete overhauls, alerts, macro'd actions, etc. - All this does is force complexity to levels where a lot of fights are close to impossible without any addons for anyone outside the top 0.1% of their class.

    The mechanics are too established and too focused on meter balancing (partly because of how easy it is to 'play the meters' instead of playing the game). - This means they have to add gimmicks to every fight with 4-5 phases on a lot of the bosses and masses of adds to manage, etc. Compare this to the bosses in MC, etc and you can quickly see that the complexity has ramped up to critical levels which forces you to read up on tactics before a fight. By adding a step where you have to read up on skills and watch youtube movies before you step into a raid you're instantly dismissing a big chunk of player base.

    All 3 of these lead to a situation where LFR is a requirement for many players, you can't get rid of it without fixing the rest, and fixing those will piss off far more people than having LFR does.
    I have to hand it to you I have never heard anyone complain ever about being able to customize their UI, in fact the majority of people complain about not being able to customize the UI, being able to customize the UI without addons tend to be a selling point for some games. I think you just have a deep seated hatred of add ons for no particular reason other than 'I think it is bad.'.

  17. #657
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    LFR was a brilliant idea and I still hold to that up until now.

    It gives players that have no other way of seeing a portion of the raiding aspect of this game, a small taste. It also makes them feel some sense of completion on their goals of progressing their character both Lore-wise, as well as gear-wise.
    Everyone plays this game for different reasons. But there are people that for example cannot attend into a raiding schedule (work, kids, etc.). LFR solves this issue for them and gives them a huge value for money in case they are into the raiding aspect of the game.

    When I was working nightshifts & weekends not a long way back (cata), there was absolutely no way for me to raid. LFR was my salvation on seeing some fights (nerfed and all, yes...but I WAS seeing them), and getting a small a tiny pleasure of seeing how's the end game experience. From then and on, I could only dream :P


    But nevertheless, the point I am trying to make here is one. I know that LFR can be a pain to some, and yes people are not as patient as they should be in situations like that. But still, I think it's a much better improvement than the picture some of us met a way back in wow's history (puging ftw!!!). I am glad Blizzard took the time to implement LFR to the game, and I really think it's one of the groundbreaking features the game has had from the beginning.


    EDIT:
    As to what I would purpose on the event LFR going away? Nothing special, I would just ask the people asking for it to be removed to take a good look of everyone around them, and get into their shoes for a change. No need to take the pleasure off some people because you don't see eye to eye with them all the time....
    Last edited by Brollgarth; 2013-11-01 at 03:24 PM.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by LegionPrime View Post
    That problem is Self-Entitlement. Everyone expects everything to just get handed to them now while putting in the very least amount of effort possible. This attitude is prevalent everywhere in WoW now.
    Why did you have to screw up a perfectly reasonable post with this? I don't see this problem. I've never seen anyone demanding heroic gear for running LFR. If anything, it's the other way around. I always see players complaining about people getting purples from LFR. It's not self-entitled to expect for a subscription game to continue to provide your main character with a progression path on your schedule in order to continue paying that subscription. Otherwise what's the point? Just unsub and wait for next expansion, at which point the level cap will be raised again and you'll have a means of making your main character more powerful. That's not entitlement; that's simple logic.

    LFR players are stuck with gear in the 520s while Heroic players are at 570+. With very few exceptions, LFR players seem to be OK with that. Besides, this is a game. Stuff gets handed to you with minimal effort all the time. Are you telling me that anyone can swing a sword competently with only a couple of hours of training in real life? Do crops spring up overnight after you plant them? Does weeding an entire farm really take < 5 minutes? Of course not! This stuff only happens in games. What do you care if someone gets handed a purple shirt that's 50 ilevels lower than yours for putting in two hours a week of play time? How is that a symptom of entitlement?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  19. #659
    (Sorry for the massive write up, just got thinking about it and it just came out. I think I'll post this here and perhaps make a new thread about some of my musings for a more focused, uh, critique(?), I guess? Or other people's thoughts, additions, improvements. /shrug Hooray for no sleep mornings.)
    If I could totally rework how endgame is run for casuals, it would take a restructuring of the philosophy of endgame; that being how can you make the game more enjoyable, keep the player base continually interested in play, and appeal to a very large base while simultaneously supplying an appropriate level of difficulty for players of all skill levels while challenging and improving them through game play? My proposal:

    Gear Change:
    I would get rid of several things right away. Gear needs to be explained more simply and an item squish is very necessary (old content should still be easy though). The large numbers are difficult for the average player to compute easily/quickly and scares off new players - as does the complicated gear structure. I would also get rid of reforging as this adds an enormous layer of complexity that is unneeded.

    All gear should be kept to the base stats: Armor type, Strength, Agility, Intellect, Spirit, and Stamina. Secondary stats would be limited to critical chance, accuracy (replacing hit and expertise - two stats to help hit a mob, really?), defense (bringing it back and getting rid of parry/dodge - or at least the need to put it on gear), and mastery (which would be simplified to increase your "base power"). These secondary stats would be balanced so they wouldn't overpower each other, and stamina could be added as well (possibly spirit too). In terms of DPS - players could choose from spikiest damage (big crits, more misses, weaker normal hits), middle value (few crits, more powerful normal hits, with misses), or smoothest damage (few crits and weak normal hits, but few misses). Healers choose between constant heals and big heals (heals don't miss), or adding more spirit for faster mana regeneration. Tanks could choose between adding mitigation through defense, adding stamina for smoother damage intake, or a dps secondary stat to increase damage or threat. (Threat - which should go back to BC difficulty in my opinion.) Or combinations of all of the above. Whatever the player decides is best for their play style. These stats would be adjusted so while there might be a "best" combination in terms of min/max, it wouldn't be overly so. All gear would only have the base stats - professions would be utilized to add secondary stats to gear. This eliminates the need for reforging as classes would take the same gear regardless of spec, modifying it later to their specific role. Gear can be manipulated in the following ways:
    1. Armorers of the appropriate armor type can put sockets on gear. (In my mind 2 max. Perhaps make the second socket more costly time/money. Discussion for another time.)
    2. These sockets could be filled by jewelcrafters or engineers with secondary stats. (Doesn't make sense to me to have gem sockets on items like neck, ring, trinket slots as they were usually made by jewelcrafters or engineers in the first place.)
    3. Enchanters, Alchemists, and Inscribers would compete for various slots to put enchants, oils, and rune inscriptions - further enhancing the item. (Enchanting being the sole profession for weapons.)

    Specs, Talents, and Glyphs:
    I like how the current system is set up. Much less of a cookie cutter situation in my opinion. More personal taste for play. Also, I enjoy the flavor of many of the aesthetic glyphs. Would like to see even more though!

    Hitting the Cap:
    As a player hits the new level cap, and works to get into the first raid, the time between hitting the level cap and getting into the first raid should be filled with more "stuff to do". Currently players get all their gear in their Heroics (grind), do their dailies (ugh, grind), then start in on LFR (Ugh!). I feel as though there should be epic quests (attunements if you'd rather) to follow that will eventually unlock the raid and other parts of the expansion, and immerse the player more in the story, creating a more personal experience as the player personally feels he affects the world and story. I would like to get away from "Heroic Dungeons" (same thing only harder lol) and just have "Dungeons" - being used to: tell the story of a zone (usually the climax of the zone story), get slightly better leveling gear, and focus on fun and cooperation. Instead of Heroics, you could implement "Epic Dungeons" that are longer, unique (no "regular" version), and more difficult than today's Heroic Dungeons. (Think BRD length/difficulty/maze with more modern mechanics, BC level difficulty but not so reliant on cc) In addition to Scenarios (could range from the "easy" beginning ones - to "epic scenarios" which could happen before/after/simultaneously as the "Epic Dungeons".) these "Epic Dungeons" could be used to craft a (hopefully lengthy) story that the player cares about and is motivated into completing, by entering the raiding scene.

    If you're a new player or new to the server or unguilded or whatever, your goal upon reaching the level cap is to find a similarly geared progressed group friends/players first, forming a 3 man team, then expanding to a 5 man team, as you progress through the questline's scenarios and epic dungeons. In my opinion a well organized raiding guild would be a group of 3 5-man teams. (With some backups.)

    Starting to Raid:
    Raiding would be reworked as well, as I would remove both LFR and Heroic Difficulties. In addition I would get rid of 10 and 25 man raiding and replace it with 15 man raiding. I feel this number works well with what I've outlined above as it would be easy to split your "starters" into 3 teams of 5, or 5 teams of 3. The basic group setup would require 2 tanks, 3-4 healers, and the rest dps. (Hooray for Dual Specs) I very much like the idea of a flexible number of players in a raid (7 - 21 or so), and would keep that "Flex" level as a casual friendly raid environment. It would offer slightly better gear than the Epic Dungeons and Scenarios that came before it, or complete the tier for gear, and focus more on learning boss fights and mechanics while simultaneously offering story progression. The difficulty would be easy enough where you could pug a group of appropriately geared players and progress through / learn most boss fights with a few wipes. Maybe even have warnings or alerts when you did something incorrect. (The further into the raid, the more difficult, but still manageable.) Instead of spamming trade chat looking for more to either raid, dungeon, scenario, pvp, or whatever, I think Blizzard needs to incorporate a function similar to OQ, where one can list what they are looking to do, what qualifications they want the applicant to the group to have accomplished, and base scores for gear as a prerequisite.

    Progression in Ability:
    As the player progresses through the Proving Grounds (I like), the Brawler's Guild (good but needs more balance, possibly split like proving grounds for all three role types - or four as sometimes it is hard to expect the same things from melee/ranged DPS), Scenarios, Epic Dungeons, Epic Scenarios, and Flex Raiding, he will by this time (hopefully) significantly improved his ability to play his class. If his confidence at playing the game improves and his playtime allows it he could make the further jump to a "progressive" guild.

    Non Casual Raiding
    As someone who has raided every raid in the game when current (with the exceptions of Vanilla Naxx, AQ 40 and Sunwell. Oh Ruby Sanctum too I guess.) I am of the opinion that Ulduar was the epitome of Blizzard's raid design in terms of grandeur, creativity, and enjoyment. I was also a big fan of the fairly non linear route you could take, skipping several "optional" bosses if you wanted to work on things further inside, or at one point picking between four progression bosses to work on. When my guild and I were pushing Hard mode progression on my server, it was a nice reprieve to work on a different boss if you were having a bad night on another one. As previously stated, I would get rid of Heroic Raiding and replace it with "Hard mode" activations reminiscent of Ulduar. These bosses would utilize mechanics in the fight, the boss itself, or the environment to activate the harder version. Additionally, you would be able to activate this mode in Flex Raiding to learn the mechanics, but for no additional reward. The "Hard mode" raiding would of course reward slightly more powerful gear, and in my opinion should be visually different from any other gear available. In fact, I believe that the hard mode gear of the current tier should be recolored and recycled into the next tier's flex raid (or normal raid), so that all would have a chance to get that "look" of gear, while keeping an "elite" feeling to it for a short period of time. With that, I believe I've outlined my ideas for raiding or PvE progression. (The biggest section as its what most players do.)

    But Krez, what else can I do?
    PvP. I like PvP; I don't have the time to raid very much this expansion, but have thoroughly enjoyed putting more of my effort into pvp. It was always something I feel I neglected playing throughout the game since Vanilla, as either going to raids or raid leading left me little time to do anything else. (Also before dual specs, I was a tank most of the time, and doing other things besides dungeons and raids, was not very efficient.) I've not done many arenas, but have built quite a bit of experience in random bgs and rated bgs. In my experience, the pvp power would continue to be useful in my reformatting of the game. I think pvp gear should be the strongest in pvp, and pve gear should be the strongest in pve. No exceptions. If you do have the highest ranked pvp gear for a tier, I think you should be able to go into a flex raid and be able to do mediocre, to slightly under mediocre dps. Similar conversions the other way as well. I also feel (as a tank most of my wow life) that tanks need to be more viable in pvp outside of flag running or being "tough to kill". They should be able to use their taunts in a way to mitigate damage. (I kind of liked swtors example - when you taunt an opponent it does X% dmg less, unless targeting you.) Or perhaps the "defense" secondary stat could shorten the times on cc. Or they could do more to mitigate damage aimed at their teammates. Something. Focusing on teammates damage mitigation, control, unstoppableness, coupled with lousy damage should make for a more entertaining experience. Everyone should be able to play the spec they like in whatever part of the game they choose to participate in. Healing has always seemed a little overpowered to me. In my opinion, an equally geared dps and healer fighting, the dps should be able to put out more damage than what the healer can heal. Healers should increase the amount of time the dps is active, not turn them into invincible gods. (Or themselves for that matter.)

    I'm not sure if the grind for conquest points right now is the best system for pvp gear. I do it, and its not too bad, it just seems like there could be a better one. Like if you load into a bg in a role you designated, you could receive honor/conquest based on total dmg done, healing done, or damage mitigated. I think people who contribute more to the battle ground should be rewarded more as well. If you sit on your mount at blacksmith during an entire AB "defending", do you really deserve as much honor as the guy running from Lumber Mill to Mine each rez trying to create a shifting attack pattern creating openings in the other teams defenses by damaging or healing at those locations?. I would say no.

    Professions would fill the same void as the pve side of the game, with the addition of "pvp power" to the secondary stats. You could put it on your pve gear... but it wouldn't do anything (in pve). There would also be a base level of the "pvp power", or resilience or pvp defense or whatever, to the gear itself, so it would remain the best in the pvp areas.

    Crafting and Professions
    I think crafting can remain about the same as it is, except it should take longer to make one piece. I think crafted gear should be craftable at any level of end game - mats should be collected in the outside world like thorium, ghost iron, and so on, and include hard to get crafting pieces from inside Epic Dungeons and non Flex raids. Perhaps in the Epic Dungeon you'd collect a 1/3 of the piece at a time, while in the raid you get a full piece - there should be an advantage going into the raids to and getting mats. The rare crafting pieces would necessarily be soulbound as it would require the profession to collect the items in the first place. As each subsequent tier of the expansion is released, the pieces would no longer become soulbound and could drop at a higher rate, or become unessary altogether. This could be a method in which characters could play "catch up" as I'm not a fan of Justice/Valor point gear. You're already getting gear going into the raid (I know not *every* time, but if gear differences are kept slight, it should be such a minor upgrade as to not be worth it), why do you need more? Similar to how the professions are balanced now, I'm sure they could be adjusted under my rules to be equal/fair as well. I'm of the opinion you should collaborate inside the economy and find your niche. I like many of you have an army of alts in order to have all the professions; and if you have time to invest in all your alts, go for it. However, having another max level character just to cut your gems so you don't have to interact with the server economy seems to be a negative investment in the community. /shrug But, if you have the time to do it, by all means. One thing I would change additionally is to add the profession Weaponsmith - obviously focusing on building weapons, applying sockets to them, and giving temporary enchantments like oils or sharpening in lieu of enchantment if you so desire. (Enchants would be best though.) There would also be some stock bonuses to having gathering professions as well, balanced out with the crafting professions, but the crafting professions advantages would still be marginally better. I'm undecided if the game would be better if the professions were to divide more like leather working specializing in mail or leather. I think that it could create to much specialization and be harmful to the profession.

    Another interesting concept I'd like to see implemented but am unsure of how to go about doing it well with WoW, is to have experience change slightly in professions. Like if I make (green level) Iron Sword, 8 times, maybe on the 6th time, I'm able to add an extra strength point or something, and on all future Iron Sword creations. Or being able to have a crit creation (not dependent on gear) that makes it a more powerful rare (blue) item? Maybe piggybacking off the currently installed "valor upgrade system"? I'm unsure. But becoming skilled at making something sounds like a fun meta game that could exist inside the crafting professions. Smelting or making cloth or whatever could do it too. After 100 silk bolts made, they start costing one silk cloth less, and so on.

    I would remove First Aid from the game. It doesn't serve much of purpose in my opinion. I'd rather see restrictions on potions lifted slightly so people could use emergency potions or crystals instead of bandaging. I would like to remove Archeology from the game, as I hate it (lol I found grinding Shendralar rep more exciting) but know a lot of people really enjoy it, so I'd leave it in and probably work more of the Heirloom type gear into that profession as extra incentive beyond vanity items and some (honestly) terrible BoA gear that doesn't scale. With as fast as leveling is now, you'd use it, what? All of an hour at the appropriate level? I think all "Heirloom" gear should scale. I kind of like the place where cooking is at - probably wouldn't change that; I found doing the Master of Ways fairly fun and time consuming - as you had to sort of plan out all the ingredients you needed utilizing your farm if you wanted. Farm was interesting this expansion, don't think I'd keep it though. It was a good experiment. Fishing needs to be reworked somehow. I find it boring, and if I'm watching a show or something on the other screen, I sometimes get focused and don't hear the fish. Needs to be changed to either be faster or more stimulating.

    All the Rest
    I'm an achievement hunter and very much enjoyed hunting them all down. I was doing it even before the achievements were implemented. When they went live on patch day at the end of BC, I had loremaster for Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor immediately. I think there's many other people who enjoy hunting achievements as well, and if Blizzard implements and OQ type group finder, you could find like minded individuals and hunt down some of the more pesky ones. Heck even OQ doesn't have an achievement grouping channel (to my dismay... although I suppose you could do "quest group", but, still.).

    Pet Battles? Oh, right. Believe it or not, I've yet to do one. On my list of things to do after I've done every other possible thing I want to do in game. I played the original pokemon (blue) when it first came out, and I think that might have fried my need to play that after all the time I spent on that thing - on the old school original game boy mind you. Not one of them new fangled 3ds deals. Young whippersnappers and so forth.

    Earlier I mentioned going through the "Epic Questline" to unlock the raid and other parts of the expansion. When I wrote that I was specifically thinking of the Timeless Isle and how it was implemented in this expansion. Blizzard is tired of the Valor gear like I am, I think, and added the Timeless gear for folks to catch up with instead of farming Heroics for hours on end. There's quite a bit you can do on the island - however, I'd like to see it more as a reward for those who finish the long questline and finish the raid (either flex or normal/hard). If they choose to level alts as their end game, it would be a place where they could get gear for their toons and skip the questing and go straight into raiding, as they've already completed the questline once, I don't think its necessary to force them to do it again. They could do this every patch - opening up a small area, maybe even instanced, that could serve as a spot to get gear for alts and serve as an efficient place to gather materials for gatherers and other minor rewards. Pvp players of suitable ranking could have access to this space too. So the space could have pvp and pve both. Unless crafted pvp makes more sense for entry level, though I'm not sure it does as pvers aren't forced to buy their starter gear off the AH. Additionally, I also think all your characters should share...

    Dailies and Reputation
    I'm exalted with just about every possible rep in the game. Once you get one rep to exalted - its a ludicrous timesink to make you have to do it again. I do like the concept of reps though, and think there should multiple ways of gaining it. I think if Blizzard is going to keep putting the reputations into the game, they should a) make them harder to level b) make the rewards more substantive. I got exalted rep after 30 days of dailies, I get a massive bag now! What? Oh, I get a recipe for a bag, that takes weeks to collect the mats for? ... neat... There should be dailies, and I know some of you hate them - and they should give the largest rep gains available for the faction - but offered either daily or weekly. You should also be able to get a tabard and earn rep with them while questing and adventuring throughout the game. PvP, Dungeons, Scenarios, Raids, whatever. However, the gains should be very, very, small. But doable to farm "quickly" for someone highly motivated with a lot of time on their hands. Dailies would remain the most efficient way to earn the rep (in terms of time spent on it), perhaps just not the way to max out the rep the fastest.

    Future Patches
    I think with each new raid patch or pvp or alternating or whatever - there needs to be a continuation of that narrative I talked about before. The story that gets people excited about the game. About seeing how things will turn out. So anytime there is a new raid on the horizon; perhaps several weeks before they drop some Epic Scenarios and 1 Epic Dungeon to set the stage and story for the Raid that is to come. As opposed to, for example Dominance Offensive - which wasn't terrible, but only added some bits to the overall story for the expansion, rather than help to set the stage for the Throne of Thunder. I think if they could have incorporated that it could have been much better. And to just continue the pattern of varying levels of complexity while at the same time garnering the interest of their gamers.

    Holy crap I didn't realize how much I wrote, thanks for reading if you did guys.

    TLDR; Krez muses on his ideas for changes for the casual community that would benefit them and the community at large. Mostly by simplifying how the gear is set up, and eliminating some unnecessary features that clutter the game and confuse players.

    WoD expansion boss, Medivh! Calling it now!

  20. #660
    Let’s look at the math here;
    Blizzard has stated that it would take 2 new dungeons a month to satisfy content for casuals.
    Blizzard has stated that a 5 man dungeon takes almost as much time as a raid wing to finish.
    Blizzard spends 6 months creating 0 dungeons and 4 raid wings with 14 bosses, they do this every 6 months for a total of 42 bosses over 18 months not counting world bosses.

    Let’s assume “almost as much time as a raid wing to complete” is 75% since we don’t have any specific number to work with...
    2 five man dungeons a month for 6 months =12 dungeons every 6 months
    75% of 12 dungeon production=production of 8 raid wings
    Currently they create 4 raid wings in 6 months so they would have to double production to meet the casual players content requirement before designing a single wing of raid content.
    Then they would have to create 4 raid wings for raiders on top of the 8 raid wings worth of 5 man dungeons for the elite raiders.
    So essentially they would have to be able to produce 12 raid wings worth of content every 6 months to keep everyone happy.

    The math just does not add up in favor of people who love lots of great raid content without LFR. LFR allows blizzard to spend all the resources on raiders and toss less tastey scraps to the casuals and yet the elitists still rage against it even though it directly feeds raiders constant great content. It makes no sense what so ever.

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