Page 35 of 42 FirstFirst ...
25
33
34
35
36
37
... LastLast
  1. #681
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,773
    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    LFR can exist, but the gear in it should be heroic dungeon level or t-mog at best and there should be no requirement for good players to carry terrible ones through it. That would take away all incentive for non-LFR players to run it and curb the complaining. Putting gear in it that's better than last tier's normal is Blizzard's bullshit way of getting normal or unlucky heroic raiders to carry terrible players through.
    So long as LFR can have upgrades. (That's why you can't logically be really suggesting T-Mod gear) That's all people want, and Blizzard needs it. Otherwise, people will do LFR once, and never again, then be met with a lack of things to actually do.

  2. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    I'd just make it so that LFR raids are never the most recent and most difficult raids. Then bump up the gear that drops from LFR equal to what drops in Flex now. For end of expansion raids, just add the LFR version after the raid has been around for 5-6 months.

    LFR can then be used to catch people up for the newest content, the newest most difficult raid is for "hardcore" players, and "casuals" still get to see the content that opens up at end game.

    Problem is, "casuals" will get pissed off about not being able to do the newest end game stuff as quickly as "hardcore" players.
    How about this, as an experiment to prove how great your ideal is you do it first for an entire expansion then come back here and tell us how fun it was and that it kept your subscribed and engaged.
    In 6.0 you can do dungeons and heroic dungeons.
    In 6.2 you can do LFR for 6.0.
    In 6.4 you can do LFR for 6.2
    In 7 you will never see the end boss raids because you will now be back to leveling up and doing dungeons and heroic dungeons.

    I mean if its good enough for them then its good enough to keep you engadged and subscribed. And you can do this every day while reminding yourself that you only have to do it because some guy on the internet got pissy that someone else seeing stuff and having purple colored gear makes them feel less special.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2013-11-01 at 07:54 PM.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    Problem is, "casuals" will get pissed off about not being able to do the newest end game stuff as quickly as "hardcore" players.
    It's not really an emotional decision. If there is nothing new for them to do in the game and they've already cleared the compelling stuff then why should they bother to stick around? They just leave. Blizzard is the entity that loses out there. If anything, they're the ones who will ultimately be pissed when they miss their numbers for the quarter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    How about this, as an experiment to prove how great your ideal is you do it first for an entire expansion then come back here and tell us how fun it was and that it kept your subscribed and engaged.
    In 6.0 you can do dungeons and heroic dungeons.
    In 6.2 you can do LFR for 6.0.
    In 6.4 you can do LFR for 6.2
    In 7 you will never see the end boss raids because you will now be back to leveling up and doing dungeons and heroic dungeons.
    Let him do dailies and My Little Panda Adventure Island too.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    It's not really an emotional decision. If there is nothing new for them to do in the game and they've already cleared the compelling stuff then why should they bother to stick around? They just leave. Blizzard is the entity that loses out there. If anything, they're the ones who will ultimately be pissed when they miss their numbers for the quarter.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Let him do dailies and My Little Panda Adventure Island too.
    He can do anything from .2 expansions back after 6.0 and that includes no form of raiding as since he wants to punish LFR players for daring to have purples then he can live in their shoes for 18 months and then come back to tell us all how much fun it was. He has to play the same amount as he usually does and not unsub. It should be a good time had by all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I find that anyone who makes references to rewards have the least leg to stand on since they are just mad that someone else has a purple colored item, which means they did not change with the times in 2008 when purple no longer denoted skill but rather what you get when you disenchant that item. Skill is now denoted by the name of the raid on the gear and the ilevel of the gear. Its real simple but like the person still refusing to cut the mullet off after 30 years they just don't understand that society has moved on without them.

  5. #685
    Umm make time to raid? I dont understand why people think because theyre "casual" they deserve to see every bit of the game.

    Think about it this way:
    If you went and bought the game Dark Souls, took it home and couldnt beat it, you dont go back to the game store asking for a "gimped" version of the game simply because you werent good enough to beat it and/or didnt "have the time"

    If you dont have the time to play the game, why are you even playing? It makes zero sense. There is nothing wrong with being "casual" if all you want to do are simple things, but dont act like you deserve everything to be catered to you.

    All LFR does it take away the "epic" feeling from seeing things that other "casual" and/or "unskilled" players couldnt do.

    tl:dr... Get better at your hobby or find a new one. And if you dont "have the time to commit" then you dont technically have the luxary of hobbies.
    Last edited by Zeddicious; 2013-11-01 at 08:28 PM.

  6. #686
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post

    Yes, the sounds like a lovely advantage. Having a lower gear inflation so that the previous tiers normal mode was 19 item levels lower instead of 31 item levels lower so gearing up alts through the last tier was viable through making a fun beer run with friends and/or pugs, with the added benefit of prolonging the life length of tiers and making raid content last the entire expansion rather than one patch. Yeah, that raid design sounds like a clearly inferior option.
    Or offer justice vendors with catch up gear on it and valor gear with current pieces on it and WITHOUT the obnoxious rep requirements.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #687
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    5,937
    Normal modes... what else?

    Just cause u play casually doesnt mean you cant raid, its such a victim complex some people have.

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    Umm make time to raid? I dont understand why people think because theyre "casual" they deserve to see every bit of the game.
    You're misinterpreting. Most people aren't claiming they deserve to see every bit of the game, but they do deserve to have novel content in exchange for maintaining their subscription. Blizzard decided that going forward all such content would be in raids. So now it's LFR or same old same old. Same old same old isn't going to maintain subs and LFR isn't doing that great a job of it either. All of this was for the benefit of raiders. When I pointed this out in another thread, someone linked two different posts claiming that a "casual" was demanding random matchmaking for raids. When I actually looked at these posts it turned out both of these posters were raiders who were frustrated at how long it was taking them to get raids together. I still haven't seen a single instance of a genuinely casual player demanding entry into raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    Think about it this way:
    If you went and bought the game Dark Souls, took it home and couldnt beat it, you dont go back to the game store asking for a "gimped" version of the game simply because you werent good enough to beat it and/or didnt "have the time"
    Are you paying $15 a month for Dark Souls? Of course not. No one is demanding their money back for WoW, but they aren't obligated to keep paying $15 a month for it either. If I want to quit playing Dark Souls for three years and then fire it up to give it another go I don't have to resubscribe to it. The content will also remain intact; I don't have to worry that the developer has nerfed everything into the ground during those three years. For those reasons the two games don't compare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    If you dont have the time to play the game, why are you even playing? It makes zero sense.
    Because for the first 90 levels of the game there is plenty to do that doesn't involve finding nine other players who are on your level in order to get anything done. Then you hit level cap and Blizzard pulls a bait and switch on you. If on day one I logged in and immediately was thrown into raids then your point would be well taken. However, I don't think many people would ever have played this game if that were the case. In fact, Blizzard agrees with you: if players don't have the time to play this game, why would they even play? They wouldn't. Subscriptions would plummet, revenues would dry up, the team would get scaled back, and raiders could fund their one raid a year with a monthly $60 subscription. Careful what you wish for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    There is nothing wrong with being "casual" if all you want to do are simple things, but dont act like you deserve everything to be catered to you.
    In my experience raiders are far more guilty of demanding that content be catered to them than casuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    All LFR does it take away the "epic" feeling from seeing things that other "casual" and/or "unskilled" players couldnt do.
    It also allowed Blizzard to put out 3 raid tiers with 14-16 bosses in each while starting out with only 6 original dungeons and putting out 0 subsequent ones. Do you really think that casuals are winning here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    tl:dr... Get better at your hobby or find a new one. And if you dont "have the time to commit" then you dont technically have the luxary of hobbies.
    That's easy for you to say, because you're not going to be standing in front of your board of directors when next quarter's numbers come out. About that catering thing you were mentioning earlier...
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-11-01 at 08:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  9. #689
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    That's easy for you to say, because you're not going to be standing in front of your board of directors when next quarter's numbers come out. About that catering thing you were mentioning earlier...
    Honestly the ones who keep advocating people leave are missing the fucking point entirely. LFR is at least in part a response to people leaving. What do you think the direction will be now that more people have left? Well that's the million dollar question. However I can say lots of folks will not like the change...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #690
    Banned Teebone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    "Sunny" Florida
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    How about this, as an experiment to prove how great your ideal is you do it first for an entire expansion then come back here and tell us how fun it was and that it kept your subscribed and engaged.
    In 6.0 you can do dungeons and heroic dungeons.
    In 6.2 you can do LFR for 6.0.
    In 6.4 you can do LFR for 6.2
    In 7 you will never see the end boss raids because you will now be back to leveling up and doing dungeons and heroic dungeons.

    I mean if its good enough for them then its good enough to keep you engadged and subscribed. And you can do this every day while reminding yourself that you only have to do it because some guy on the internet got pissy that someone else seeing stuff and having purple colored gear makes them feel less special.
    You are too damn awesome for this thread sir. /SALUTE!!!

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    Umm make time to raid? I dont understand why people think because theyre "casual" they deserve to see every bit of the game.

    Think about it this way:
    If you went and bought the game Dark Souls, took it home and couldnt beat it, you dont go back to the game store asking for a "gimped" version of the game simply because you werent good enough to beat it and/or didnt "have the time"

    If you dont have the time to play the game, why are you even playing? It makes zero sense. There is nothing wrong with being "casual" if all you want to do are simple things, but dont act like you deserve everything to be catered to you.

    All LFR does it take away the "epic" feeling from seeing things that other "casual" and/or "unskilled" players couldnt do.

    tl:dr... Get better at your hobby or find a new one. And if you dont "have the time to commit" then you dont technically have the luxary of hobbies.
    Nobody cares. Casuals want bosses to kill without having to quit their jobs, Blizzard wants money from those casuals, and neither of them are especially interested in your opinion.

    Doesn't it hurt to be irrelevant? Doesn't it just hurt so much? You worked so hard to kill all those bosses, and now it's like you don't even matter.


  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Honestly the ones who keep advocating people leave are missing the fucking point entirely. LFR is at least in part a response to people leaving. What do you think the direction will be now that more people have left? Well that's the million dollar question. However I can say lots of folks will not like the change...
    Exactly. For some people LFR is a god send, and i understand that. It is nice to have something like LFR if you just wanted to see what happened in the game lore wise and such.That is not all that LFR does though, it takes away from the player base who would be doing Normal/Heroic if LFR didnt exsist.

    Me personally, i dont much care for LFR because its mindless and not challenging in the slightest. But now we are pretty much FORCED to do this content if we want to raid.. How else do you get gear? Heroic Dungeons? and Senarios? Last i checked, ilvl 463 & 480 gear wasnt good enough to get into Flex/Normal (ESPECIALLY with this gear gap).

    People who put in the time to run 1-2 toons through LFR COULD BE using that time for normal/flex modes. Guilds die in this game left and right because people dont need them anymore. And when guilds die, people quit. Slowly but surely this game will die and its unfortunate.

    Also, over time, it seems like this game has almost been overcome with trolls and obnoxiously rude people. Its almost to the point where if youre a decent person, youre driven away because youre the oddball.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Or offer justice vendors with catch up gear on it and valor gear with current pieces on it and WITHOUT the obnoxious rep requirements.
    I do believe that the lack of justice vendor throughout the expansion and lack of VP vendor this tier has been quite bad.
    I would love to see a good justice vendor back.

    I do not however think that a justice vendor should give you all the pieces you need. It should be able to fill a few holes on your gear. I am a strong believer in that tiers should remain relevant. Outside of achievement runs and/or legendary quest farming, I almost never see anyone running the old tier of content. Back in WotLK I did T9 on a weekly basis even in T10, despite not needing the gear. I liked to help others gear up and it only took an hour of my time, was quite fun to do. I also did T7 almost every week, and T8 occationally (it was harder finding T8 pugs as it was to hard for the people that just dinged, and the people with more gear ran T9 since it dropped better loot). I think that this current raid system we have where the old tiers get instantly out of date as soon as a new tier releases is unhealthy for the game.

    I am not saying that I think that people should grind through every tier to progress, not at all, there should be alternate sources of gearing up. Such as justice point vendors, but I do not think that it should cover all gear slots. Old tiers in my opinion needs to stay relevant the entire expansions and alts / rerolls / new players should be able to find good gear upgrades in the previous tier when gearing up. Using the current raid system, I think that a healthy way to progress into the future tiers would be.

    LFR always lower item level than the previous tiers normal mode.
    Flex should be between previous tier normal/heroic. Should not be the same or higher as previous tier heroic.
    This would allow for the item level difference between Tier N and Tier N+1 normal and heroic mode to be lower, which would lead to less gear inflation.
    There should be a valor and justice vendor selling about 6-7 different gear pieces that are the same item level as current and previous tiers normal mode respectively.
    Should be some 5 man content that drop LFR equivelant gear.
    The next tier normal mode should be half a tier ahead of the previous tiers heroic mode.

    This would fix the issue of inflation we had this expansion. The numbers are gettig insane now. It would also diminish the difference in output between someone in LFR and Normal gear. It would also keep old tiers relevant to gearing up
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #694
    Me personally, i dont much care for LFR because its mindless and not challenging in the slightest. But now we are pretty much FORCED to do this content if we want to raid.. How else do you get gear? Heroic Dungeons? and Senarios? Last i checked, ilvl 463 & 480 gear wasnt good enough to get into Flex/Normal (ESPECIALLY with this gear gap).
    You're not forced to do anything. You can easily hit 500+ without setting foot in a raid. Just because most people post absurd req for flex groups(If you're seriously suggesting you need heroic ToT level gear for flex, you're insane) doesn't mean you have to do LFR.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    How about this, as an experiment to prove how great your ideal is you do it first for an entire expansion then come back here and tell us how fun it was and that it kept your subscribed and engaged.
    In 6.0 you can do dungeons and heroic dungeons.
    In 6.2 you can do LFR for 6.0.
    In 6.4 you can do LFR for 6.2
    In 7 you will never see the end boss raids because you will now be back to leveling up and doing dungeons and heroic dungeons.

    I mean if its good enough for them then its good enough to keep you engadged and subscribed. And you can do this every day while reminding yourself that you only have to do it because some guy on the internet got pissy that someone else seeing stuff and having purple colored gear makes them feel less special.
    First, how about you actually read what I posted and you quit mad posting?

    Second, how about you not put words in my mouth while going off on your little rage tirade?

    Ideally the initial round of raids has more than one tier (like this expansion had) and "casuals" should have some initial raiding to do (though if they're truly casual, I'd wonder how long it would take them to hit level cap, get geared, and get into raids), and there should still be Flex raids that are easier than normal mode.

    I addressed not being able to do end game raids if you actually read my post, and I don't care if casuals get purples or not. Personally, I thought LK heroic dungeon end bosses offering the same level of epic items as 10 man Naxx was a pretty good way to do things back during WotLK.

    Edit: And to add to that: In vanilla WoW, I never raided anything past Molten Core. In Burning Crusade, I never raided anything past Karazhan. During those expansions I didn't really focus on raiding or maximizing my own character and did other things and played other video games from time to time. Raiding really wasn't a major concern, but I got into it in the beginning of LK and managed to find a decent guild shortly before ToC came around. WotLK and Cata were my hardcore raid expansions, and going from LK to Cata, it took me about a month or a bit longer to go from 80 to 85 and get geared to do raid content. I wouldn't consider myself a casual player either. So not having a major LFR raid to do during that initial wait period shouldn't be that big a deal for a casual player.
    Last edited by Willias; 2013-11-01 at 10:23 PM.

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Let him do dailies and My Little Panda Adventure Island too.
    Why are you so elitist and dismissive about non-raiding content?

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Why are you so elitist and dismissive about non-raiding content?
    Because as someone who prefers non-raiding content to raiding content, I wholeheartedly believe that this expansion's non-raiding content has been severely underwhelming. I'm not dismissive about non-raiding content in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  18. #698
    Mechagnome Steampunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside of Chicago, Il.
    Posts
    734
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    flex mode.
    it does what LFR was meant to do, be a easier relaxed version of the actual raid.

    but LFR has to be retard-proofed due to the completely random quality of people in LFR and the fact that there is no communication between them such as vent or mumble.
    I went to the EQ school of raiding. We had 70-man raid targets in OoW, without any kind of voicechat. You just read chat and acted.

    LFR today was exactly like that. A lot of first timers on Megaera, tank calmly typed out what to do. Everyone lived and didn't act the fool on the way to Ji-Kun.

    When people start talking critical about the LFR system, I'm reminded what they're actually saying is "It's a shame there's not someone here who will wrangle the group together".
    Quote Originally Posted by Basmothel
    Lacking ammo, the forum troll darts into the realm of personal insults and doomsaying; the most primitive means of gaining attention from its peers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyadore View Post
    You know something, none of us ruined the game. We make it better. And so do most of you.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    First, how about you actually read what I posted and you quit mad posting?

    Second, how about you not put words in my mouth while going off on your little rage tirade?

    Ideally the initial round of raids has more than one tier (like this expansion had) and "casuals" should have some initial raiding to do (though if they're truly casual, I'd wonder how long it would take them to hit level cap, get geared, and get into raids), and there should still be Flex raids that are easier than normal mode.

    I addressed not being able to do end game raids if you actually read my post, and I don't care if casuals get purples or not. Personally, I thought LK heroic dungeon end bosses offering the same level of epic items as 10 man Naxx was a pretty good way to do things back during WotLK.

    Edit: And to add to that: In vanilla WoW, I never raided anything past Molten Core. In Burning Crusade, I never raided anything past Karazhan. During those expansions I didn't really focus on raiding or maximizing my own character and did other things and played other video games from time to time. Raiding really wasn't a major concern, but I got into it in the beginning of LK and managed to find a decent guild shortly before ToC came around. WotLK and Cata were my hardcore raid expansions, and going from LK to Cata, it took me about a month or a bit longer to go from 80 to 85 and get geared to do raid content. I wouldn't consider myself a casual player either. So not having a major LFR raid to do during that initial wait period shouldn't be that big a deal for a casual player.
    This is a text based medium, you can't infer rage or mad posting unless I become offensive in a bannable measure so don't get all twisted up in a wod over the rage your mind places in my posts. I know you don't care if casuals get something or not and casuals really don't care if you have an opinion or not because LFR is being hard baked into the next expansion as we speak. LFR has been good for raiding because it allowed Blizzard to spend the entire post-leveling resources on only raid content and anyone who wants to see the end of LFR would see the end of their own content. Its just a fact.

  20. #700
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by robotis View Post
    Assuming you realize most people won't ever step up to Flex/Normal/Heroic, and rarely, if ever do guilded/organized activities.
    Then these people should uninstall the game. You said it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by robotis View Post
    But in terms of a game based almost entirely around raiding
    If ya don't raid, don't play.

    People who don't raid, don't do guild stuff, hardly ever have the time to play said game...I'm sorry, but there is no market for you in this game. An MMO resolves around time spent...the more you play the game the more you get out of it.

    LFR is just shit...I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue. It's a horrible gaming experience and has all the worst attributes in a raid that you generally want to avoid. It needs significant improvement or needs to be removed all together. This is about whats best for the game, not whats best for some random casual who doesn't really give a fuck about anyone other than him/her self.
    People survived with out having a computer automatically set you in a group, you're a big enough boy to find your own raid groups. We all use to do this at one time lol

    This is the ONLY redeeming feature for LFR/LFD. Ease of use and that's only if you're too lazy to find a good group...and a good raid group is always better than the crap you will find in LFR/LFD.
    Last edited by rated; 2013-11-01 at 11:51 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •