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  1. #761
    WoW has two strong components that do wonders for player retention, IMO:
    -sense of progression that you can't let go of easily since you've invested so much
    -familiarity with players and social bonds

    Letting players solo all max level content may be a highly requested change to the game but in the end you'll ruin yourself so long as you rely on player retention. You really don't want WoW to feel like a game you can pick up and drop, you want them to feel like that can't leave, you're trying to sell a drug here, don't cut down it's potency so players can get on with their daily chores, get them hooked!

  2. #762
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    Casuals want bosses to kill without having to quit their job and set up a video game schedule.

    Blizzard wants casual dollars.

    There aren't enough people like you to make them give a shit what you think.

    Deal with it.
    Oh I forgot. Right. You can't have a real life and be a decent WoW Raider. If only you'd know... if only.

    It's not like there are thousands of different guilds with totally different schedules. Nobody has to quit the fucking Job to be a decent raider.
    Last edited by NoNamedPride; 2013-11-03 at 04:54 AM.

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Strangewayes View Post
    I mean outside of raiding, WoW is basically dead. There is no content outside of raids for solo players or groups. There's nothing that could allow me to play for 2 hours whenever I please where I can leave the group at any time with no major repercussions.


    Oh wait, yes there is.
    PvE, PvP, Dailies, and farming.

    That covers the list a little more succinctly.

    I think what people are looking for more of are *new* forms of content, like Pet Battles. That don't necessarily fall into those molds. (altho they are a bit grindy and have started to emphasize the farming aspect for collecting even more).

    As much as I hated cataclysm, they had some really fun quests that show how versatile the WoW engine really is. Its been a few years, lets see something actually come of it.

  4. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    If I can't have it nobody can! At least your honest. Scorched wow policy.
    Yeah. At least I'm honest. Oh.. did you know already: There are more than enough casuals that are too dumb to get something done in a fucking Video Game. That's why we would probably never surrender our content to casuals. Playing with most of you guys wouldn't lead to a community. It would only get on our nerves every time we'd have to carry you through simple bossfights...

  5. #765
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Yeah. At least I'm honest. Oh.. did you know already: There are more than enough casuals that are too dumb to get something done in a fucking Video Game. That's why we would probably never surrender our content to casuals. Playing with most of you guys wouldn't lead to a community. It would only get on our nerves every time we'd have to carry you through simple bossfights...
    The people that often like to label themselves as casual, are anything but.
    "1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

  6. #766
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    Casuals want bosses to kill without having to quit their job and set up a video game schedule.

    Blizzard wants casual dollars.

    There aren't enough people like you to make them give a shit what you think.

    Deal with it.
    You already kill bosses, all the time. Theres deadweight in World Boss and rare Boss kills everywhere.

    Don't tell me casuals don't even want to press WASD to move their characters now?

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    The people that often like to label themselves as casual, are anything but.
    Hm.. can't agree tbh. Though I'm totally agreeing when it comes to your Sig. Well played.

  8. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Oh I forgot. Right. You can't have a real life and be a decent WoW Raider. If only you'd know... if only.

    It's not like there are thousands of different guilds with totally different schedules. Nobody has to quit the fucking Job to be a decent raider.
    Nobody cares. They still don't want to do it. Blizzard still wants their money. Hardcores still have nothing they can do about it except piss and moan about the state of the world like a bunch of old ladies.

  9. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    Nobody cares. They still don't want to do it. Blizzard still wants their money. Hardcores still have nothing they can do about it except piss and moan about the state of the world like a bunch of old ladies.
    Hm. Right now we still have our content. And with the old Devs on X5 it can only get better when it comes to us poor Hardcores. How do you like that?

    Hush little Casual. Don't be sad. There has never been any kind of hope for your argument to survive. It has been used so often, hell I heard it the first time in Wrath.

    Edit: I find one thing funny. You think your money buys you Blizz's everlasting asslicking. The fact is Blizz wants their money but doesn't even have to do anything about the Hardcore content to get it. Sooner or later people who left come back and it's all done for. Also Blizz wouldn't cut the Hardcore content. Their Partnerships with Elitists are a goldmine. Liveraids aren't done by Casuals. They're done by Hardcore Raiders. And are being done by Blizz and the Hardcore Guilds to entertain Blizz/WoW Fans.

    Edit2: What's also quite funny is the fact that Blizz just needs to give Casuals the bottle. Or in this case give them a new easy raid mode. "Meh. We can make Normal and Heroic harder next Xpac, they'll be fine."
    Last edited by NoNamedPride; 2013-11-03 at 05:16 AM.

  10. #770
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    WoW has two strong components that do wonders for player retention, IMO:
    -sense of progression that you can't let go of easily since you've invested so much
    -familiarity with players and social bonds
    You're right, but those do not exist in the game anymore. First, there is no more sense of progression since it's irrelevant what you do in this patch, in the next patch you will be forced into the next tier anyway. You can skip tiers and jump back in whenever you want. You're not progressing in any meaningful way. Second, since Cata, 25 man raiding and guilds have been wiped out from most of the game. Those guilds used to be the ones that created and maintained that familiarity and social bonds. Now the game is mostly filled with 10 man guilds that come and go, with no longevity and majority of group play is through LFR and LFD where you group with random people you will never meet again.

  11. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Hm. Almost died laughing @ Quixdraw's Post. So the Hardcore Players are the baddies all over again? We put a lot of effort into Heroic Raiding, so it's only natural that we demand to keep our Content to ourselves? What many people don't seem to get is that in a MMORPG time is the biggest factor. The more of the Playtime you bought you use the more you're rewarded. Put some time into your character and learn how to play: You'll find it much easier to find a Raid you're comfortable with and that has acceptable Raidschedules and there you go. You can even go and PuG normal anytime you want to. Most people are just too fucking lazy to do it. That's why I play on a German server even though I usually totally hate Germans. I found a Heroic Progression Raid that could have me around even though my english and my german are merely O.K. And guess what. The acceptance for less casual content is so fucking high in the German community. You rarely see somebody complain about the lack of content. The Casuals have better things to do rather than to waste their time with Discussions about a Game. They respect real Raiders and get along quite well with them, for most of the time. Some should really learn from their Community.

    Not sure which post you are referring too, but it does not matter. Fact is I can live without the LFR, I rarely do it anymore, hell I have not even bothered to run the last two wings of SoO on my main. As far as I am concerned they could just make a dungeon or scenario to finish out the content and I would be happy. Gear means nothing more to me at this point, other than for transmog purposes. I can always wait to run the current content in the next xpac like many do now to get the gear I want.


    I been playing this game for 8 plus years and on average 30 plus hours a week. Time is something I have a lot of, finding a decent guild seems to be more of a challenge. I did organized raiding from the beginning of wrath to the end of cata. I belonged to a 25 man guild that had a great bunch of people in it. We spend the entire expansion plus together, before real life issues prevented many from continuing with the game. It is very rare to find a very good guild these days of like minded people (I spent more than 4 years in that guild). Since Cata dropped I have been in at least ten others and every single one of them fell apart because people could not find way to get long with one another (some of these were very old and established guilds).


    I totally gave up looking, moved all my alts back into my bank guilds to at least level them up a bit. Maybe next expansion I will try again to look for another guild. In the mean time I will use oQueue to run some older raids, level the two remaining alts I have, continue running older content for transmog gear, farm mats/patterns and play the AH.


    We put a lot of effort into Heroic Raiding, so it's only natural that we demand to keep our Content to ourselves? What many people don't seem to get is that in a MMORPG time is the biggest factor. The more of the Playtime you bought you use the more you're rewarded.

    I would take it you have a problem with the people still doing Firelands for the legendary staff. How can one scream they should feel special, when people are able to still get something from a previous xpac. If these items are truly legendary they should have been removed from the game at the beginning of the next xpac. No legendary item should be obtainable after it is not longer current content. Why do you think Blizzard does not do this? It is the same reason they chose to create the LFR, so more than a exclusive few could actually see and do all they content they designed.


    The LFR is a great concept and design, with a lot flaws. If they were to remove it tomorrow, it would not bother me in the least. I can always find something else to fill in my playing time. I also do not have the need to feel like a special snowflake. You can have all the bells and whistles you desire. I do not need them, I am not that shallow of a person. If it get people like you to stop complain about wanting to be special. so be it.

  12. #772
    Quote Originally Posted by Quixdraw View Post
    Not sure which post you are referring too, but it does not matter. Fact is I can live without the LFR, I rarely do it anymore, hell I have not even bothered to run the last two wings of SoO on my main. As far as I am concerned they could just make a dungeon or scenario to finish out the content and I would be happy. Gear means nothing more to me at this point, other than for transmog purposes. I can always wait to run the current content in the next xpac like many do now to get the gear I want.


    I been playing this game for 8 plus years and on average 30 plus hours a week. Time is something I have a lot of, finding a decent guild seems to be more of a challenge. I did organized raiding from the beginning of wrath to the end of cata. I belonged to a 25 man guild that had a great bunch of people in it. We spend the entire expansion plus together, before real life issues prevented many from continuing with the game. It is very rare to find a very good guild these days of like minded people (I spent more than 4 years in that guild). Since Cata dropped I have been in at least ten others and every single one of them fell apart because people could not find way to get long with one another (some of these were very old and established guilds).


    I totally gave up looking, moved all my alts back into my bank guilds to at least level them up a bit. Maybe next expansion I will try again to look for another guild. In the mean time I will use oQueue to run some older raids, level the two remaining alts I have, continue running older content for transmog gear, farm mats/patterns and play the AH.


    We put a lot of effort into Heroic Raiding, so it's only natural that we demand to keep our Content to ourselves? What many people don't seem to get is that in a MMORPG time is the biggest factor. The more of the Playtime you bought you use the more you're rewarded.

    I would take it you have a problem with the people still doing Firelands for the legendary staff. How can one scream they should feel special, when people are able to still get something from a previous xpac. If these items are truly legendary they should have been removed from the game at the beginning of the next xpac. No legendary item should be obtainable after it is not longer current content. Why do you think Blizzard does not do this? It is the same reason they chose to create the LFR, so more than a exclusive few could actually see and do all they content they designed.


    The LFR is a great concept and design, with a lot flaws. If they were to remove it tomorrow, it would not bother me in the least. I can always find something else to fill in my playing time. I also do not have the need to feel like a special snowflake. You can have all the bells and whistles you desire. I do not need them, I am not that shallow of a person. If it get people like you to stop complain about wanting to be special. so be it.
    Keeping that stuff in was their biggest fail. The Game lives from competition. The Raiding scene does. But well it doesn't matter. You can still check the date of the Av and know if somebody has earned it or is just somebody who can't do shit when it's actual content.

  13. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Keeping that stuff in was their biggest fail. The Game lives from competition. The Raiding scene does. But well it doesn't matter. You can still check the date of the Av and know if somebody has earned it or is just somebody who can't do shit when it's actual content.
    I guess this is something we can agree with then. I hate that people taut some achievement 2 years after it being current. I got Oxy's mount 2 weeks ago, after some 30 solo kills. As nice as it is to have it, it really means nothing to me at this point other than getting another mount closer to 200. Mounts are one thing that should be removed, but they have such an extremely low drop rate why bother.

  14. #774
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    I think it's silly that LFR can take up to a couple hours to clear a wing when the purpose of LFR was to introduce a method to allow casual players who are short on time to see the content. Especially now with flex, I wonder how many players skip LFR entirely which compounds the issue by way of destabilizing the ratio of good:bad players.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Hm. Right now we still have our content. And with the old Devs on X5 it can only get better when it comes to us poor Hardcores. How do you like that?
    Ten years ago the definitive raiding experience was still an EverQuest raid of 72 players.

    Eight years ago WoW came along and slashed it to 40 man.

    Six years ago BC cut it down to 25 man.

    Four years ago WOTLK made every raid both 25 and 10 man.

    Two years ago LFR made guilds optional to seeing raid content.

    This year MoP debuted another sub-Normal raiding mode, this one dispensing completely with any hard-set size requirements beyond 10 players, while 25 man raids were openly stated to be "in danger" by the blues.

    Where do you think we'll be two years from now, hm? You think the old devs are going to come back, suck your dick, and roll the game back to Burning Crusade? No, the casualization will continue. Even during the time you consider the golden age, it was already well underway. Personally I suspect that Normals and/or 25 man will no longer exist in their current forms by this date in 2015, while LFR will exist as a glorified Scenario that still hands out epics.

    Hardcores will whine and scream about these latest atrocities against their hardcore ethos, as they always do, but as always they will have nothing to say except to beg Blizzard to stop liking money so much.

  16. #776
    Just same content as now only without LFR, Flex dificulty. Deal with it casuals you dont deserver see end game.

  17. #777
    I'd propose a 5-man Dungeon-based end game. This would be an entirely separate progression path for small groups, rather than trying to shoe-horn solo players and small groups into "Raiding" with LFR. Dungeons would not be a stepping stone to Raids, they would be a parallel path.

    For this to happen, players would need to drop the notion of what has become what they think a "dungeon" is, as well as thinking that a best-in-slot item might come from a dungeon. This end-game would be more about prestige, achievement, exploration and adventure than getting gear.

    I'll leave this here for now, let me know if you'd like to hear more

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Just same content as now only without LFR, Flex dificulty. Deal with it casuals you dont deserver see end game.
    They don't deserve to see THAT end game (nor is the experience they're given with LFR very good at all). But they ARE allowed to see some kind of end game. My 5-man idea seems perfect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    Where do you think we'll be two years from now, hm? You think the old devs are going to come back, suck your dick, and roll the game back to Burning Crusade? No, the casualization will continue. Even during the time you consider the golden age, it was already well underway. Personally I suspect that Normals and/or 25 man will no longer exist in their current forms by this date in 2015, while LFR will exist as a glorified Scenario that still hands out epics.

    Hardcores will whine and scream about these latest atrocities against their hardcore ethos, as they always do, but as always they will have nothing to say except to beg Blizzard to stop liking money so much.
    Jjust to be clear, LFR is not raiding content. It's not group content. It's solo content.

    WildStar is bringing 40 man raids back, and I think Blizzard is in for a bit of a rude awakening.

  18. #778
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strangewayes View Post
    You already kill bosses, all the time. Theres deadweight in World Boss and rare Boss kills everywhere.

    Don't tell me casuals don't even want to press WASD to move their characters now?
    Keyboard turner!





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  19. #779
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    I myself would love to see another Karazhan back during TBC that was one awesome raid, it was not not overly hard nor was it overly easy.. It was just right the most fun had was Opera, Nightbane, The Curator, the dreaded Shade of Aran very tiny room with 10 folks in it lol.. Then Netherspite and the best of all Prince Malchezaar that fight was cool the fun bit trying to watch where the meteors were going and not get toasted..

    On of the more a pain in the rear bosses was Terestian Illhoof and Chess event but really all the bosses in it were fun to do and because it was tuned for 10 man is what made it good, not like some others trying to tune the same encounters for 10 and 25..

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    WoW has two strong components that do wonders for player retention, IMO:
    -sense of progression that you can't let go of easily since you've invested so much
    -familiarity with players and social bonds

    Letting players solo all max level content may be a highly requested change to the game but in the end you'll ruin yourself so long as you rely on player retention. You really don't want WoW to feel like a game you can pick up and drop, you want them to feel like that can't leave, you're trying to sell a drug here, don't cut down it's potency so players can get on with their daily chores, get them hooked!
    When LFR was initially implemented back in Dragon Soul, my guild was going through a patch of drama at the same time, one that a lot of the higher up people in the guild knew was going to come eventually since the end of Wrath of the Lich King. Finally though, someone had gained a lot of authority in guild and decided that they were just going to push through it rather than let it sit there. With LFR being new (I don't know how the guild does it now), people in guild were queueing up at random and if you didn't queue up with someone when they were doing their run for loot, rarely would they want to do it a second time.

    So at that point in time, I really didn't want to put up with the drama any more and wanted a break from the guild, it felt like the game was pushing me into high end content with random people so I could progress and keep up with the rest of my guild, and Dragon Soul was filled with a lot of 1 tank fights, or at least it was on normal mode, so me and the other tank in the guild had to figure out who was going to be DPSing most fights.

    I said screw it and left. Checked things out at the beginning of MoP and when things didn't look different left again and haven't looked back since.

    This is the longest period of time I haven't come back to World of Warcraft, and really am not interested in coming back unless the new expansion is amazing. That being said, I've played several other MMOs in the mean time, and still prefer WoW's type of gameplay. The content that is there now is completely uninteresting to me however, and it feels to me that WoW is in the same place that so many of its competitors were for the past 7 years. It wants to be WoW, and has many of the same components, but can't figure out how to actually be good.

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