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  1. #1

    To people whom want LFR removed: What endgame do you propose for the casual players?

    Assuming you realize most people won't ever step up to Flex/Normal/Heroic, and rarely, if ever do guilded/organized activities.

    There's several options I see:


    1) The BC Model:
    Spamming BGs

    This was awful.


    2) The late wrath model:
    A highly puggable raid/part of a raid
    Dungeons

    This could work, but I don't think they could make enough dungeons to sustain people.

    3) Tell people to deal with it.

    I don't think this'll work either, as without something to do at the endgame, these people are likely to get bored even faster than they are already, and quit in even bigger droves.

    I'm one to admit that LFR isn't ideal. Infact, it's far from ideal. But in terms of a game based almost entirely around raiding, I don't see what other options they have now that an influx of people replacing people quitting has stopped. They got to keep all those casuals occupied somehow, and it seems to halfway-halfway work.

    Ideally, they need a shit load of dungeons, and a further delayed LFR, or something. But that'd never happen.


    I just think, also, people just need to realize most people don't do, haven't done, and will likely never do organized activities in this, or any other MMO. It's the nature of the audience, or something. Why do MMOs attract these people? I don't know :x But they do, and they're the majority. So they have to be pleased somehow, right?

  2. #2
    Maybe if they aren't devoted players try don't belong in this type of game...

    But I would add a lot of hard dungeons. Like hour or two hour long ones. If thu can't do an hour then they can't do LFR now.

    Or put them in proving grounds till they can do average dps. Then flex.

  3. #3
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.
    I agree with this. Sums it up pretty swell, I say!

  5. #5
    They should step up to flex, even if it needs to get toned down for them to be able to do so.

    If an MMO can't force a bit of interaction and community onto a playerbase then whats the point? If people complain that they "like to solo", that's fine, you just can't have the nice(r) things.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    most people won't ever step up to Flex/Normal/Heroic
    Then they wouldn't receive raid worthy gear... but that's just my opinion though.

    I don't think this'll work either, as without something to do at the endgame, these people are likely to get bored even faster than they are already, and quit in even bigger droves.
    I see a lot of these idle threats running around on forums but honestly, where will they go? The US market doesn't have any competitors that come close in my opinion. It's kind of why I'm playing nothing at the moment.

    Or put them in proving grounds till they can do average dps. Then flex.
    It's amazing whenever I peek over on the WoW forums, there's someone who does 30k DPS in LFR, dies constantly or refuses to look up fights before hand as a tank trying to bash on "elitist jerks". It's not elitist.. you're a tank, know what you're doing before you come here and if you're a DPS, for the love of god doing 30k DPS was what people did in Cataclysm.

    Ah well, the game scope has changed, I really don't get involved with it much anymore nor do I even have an account.

  7. #7
    They don't want us playing at all, just farming mats to give to them, and of course paying or subs so they get their new raids. A month strike by casuals would be frightening - a months strike by hardcore pains would be a yawn - who in game would even notice?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Maybe if they aren't devoted players try don't belong in this type of game...

    But I would add a lot of hard dungeons. Like hour or two hour long ones. If thu can't do an hour then they can't do LFR now.

    Or put them in proving grounds till they can do average dps. Then flex.
    But you have to realize that's not a logical fit for the kind of people playing the game, right?

    People aren't magically going to be doing organized activities that they've never wanted to do over the last 8 years, y'know.

    There's some logic in them not belonging, too, but... that's the majority of players playing the game. So you're saying that the majority of players should quit? Then what?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    They don't want us playing at all, just farming mats to give to them, and of course paying or subs so they get their new raids. A month strike by casuals would be frightening - a months strike by hardcore pains would be a yawn - who in game would even notice?
    I'm pretty sure if Method, Midwinter and Blood Legion all went on strike at the start I next expansion Blizzard would scramble to get them back. Why? Because they are the players who have stayed here for a long time. The ones who don't quit because they have bad loot luck or got nerfed.

  10. #10
    Casual players should just stand around in town, ready to tell the Über Elite players how great and unique they are.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    They should step up to flex, even if it needs to get toned down for them to be able to do so.

    If an MMO can't force a bit of interaction and community onto a playerbase then whats the point? If people complain that they "like to solo", that's fine, you just can't have the nice(r) things.
    There's a good bit of truth in some of that second paragraph. But, I'd also say that I think there's a big disconnect between what the dedicated/hardcore want out of an MMO, what Blizzard wants people to have in their MMO, and what casual players get out of an MMO. Frankly, I think the genre in and of itself is on a big downward spiral now that other genres have appropriated some of the more addictive/fun tropes of the MMO genre, without all the MMO baggage, and it's likely to never have another mega-hit like early/Mid-WoW ever again without entirely re-inventing itself/what an MMO is.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.
    Yep, basically, anyone who thinks LFR needs to go away hasn't thought beyond his personal viewpoint, and in particular hasn't thought about what Blizzard has to do to satisfy a very diverse player base.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Method, Midwinter and Blood Legion all went on strike at the start I next expansion Blizzard would scramble to get them back. Why? Because they are the players who have stayed here for a long time. The ones who don't quit because they have bad loot luck or got nerfed.
    Uhh. I really doubt that would be the reason... Does anyone remember DnT, Ensidia, Nihilum? Nope. There will always be new shoes to fill the void.

    If anything Blizz relies on the people who sub and play minimally. Who makes more for them? The guys online all the time, testing the game to its limits all the time, forcing patching and CS strictly for them; or, the dude who logs on once a week.

    Think about it from a financial perspective. yeah, they are not gonna let the raid scene die off but they sure as heck have not, and will not in the foreseeable future, subsidize the raid crowd to stick around anymore than they already do making endgame for them.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

    While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.

    There is no difference between LFR and a dungeon, except that LFR followed by just higher difficulties means that essentially players will be repeating the same stuff many many times.

    Raid it on LFR? Next to Flex. Done with Flex? Enjoy Normal. Good enough for Normal? Heroic time.
    That is just ridiculous and tedious. Nobody wants to have multiple tiers of content all be the same thing. That's why it nice for heroic to have an extra boss. (Sinestra Algalon Ra-den)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Balazzar View Post
    Uhh. I really doubt that would be the reason... Does anyone remember DnT, Ensidia, Nihilum? Nope. There will always be new shoes to fill the void.

    If anything Blizz relies on the people who sub and play minimally. Who makes more for them? The guys online all the time, testing the game to its limits all the time, forcing patching and CS strictly for them; or, the dude who logs on once a week.

    Think about it from a financial perspective. yeah, they are not gonna let the raid scene die off but they sure as heck have not, and will not in the foreseeable future, subsidize the raid crowd to stick around.
    Fine. All heroic raiding guilds quit vs all non-raiders (excluding those who PvP) quit. See what then? See who blizzard tries to bring back with promises of content made for them.

    Every player 13/13 ToT vs every player 0/12 ToT

    Which would Blizzard actually worry about?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by robotis View Post
    Why do MMOs attract these people? I don't know :x But they do, and they're the majority. So they have to be pleased somehow, right?
    Should there be aspects of the game for such players? Sure. Should that constitute a majority of the content as it does now? No.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  16. #16
    A time machine to go back before LFR/LFD was implemented.

    I accept that theres no going back but i will never accept that it was good for the game.

  17. #17
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    It really is hard to make enough enjoyable content to please the crowd but I do think Blizzard got it wrong this time around, with really easy dungeons and very few off them. Yes it is a "grind" toward LFR or raiding but I think it is a neccesary evil.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brodeo View Post
    A time machine to go back before LFR/LFD was implemented.

    I accept that theres no going back but i will never accept that it was good for the game.
    Playing since the beginning of BC, I've always hated what the game was before in terms of getting people together for dungeons. It was terrible. At times, it took hours to get people and if they dropped while in the dungeon, that was it. It was a complete waste of time and effort, all for a lousy bit of gear. Thank goodness those days are long gone. Insta queues are so much better and more convenient. It was good for the game. JMO and I stand by it.

  19. #19
    flex mode.
    it does what LFR was meant to do, be a easier relaxed version of the actual raid.

    but LFR has to be retard-proofed due to the completely random quality of people in LFR and the fact that there is no communication between them such as vent or mumble.

  20. #20
    Pit Lord Lemposs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodeo View Post
    A time machine to go back before LFR/LFD was implemented.

    I accept that theres no going back but i will never accept that it was good for the game.
    I think it did do some harm to the community but it did cut away a lot waiting time for some people. Look at MMOs that don't/didn't have LFG, forums pleads for a tool for easy group making. If WoW hadn't made it/implemented it, it might have bleed more subs. Arguably good for some, bad for others.

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