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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by maldias View Post
    considering you can farm that out of the timeless isle with burdens and get some pieces from IoT and ToT.
    but i guess putting any amount of work into your character is out of the question, huh?
    Considering that your suggestion would amount to game play that is boring as hell, I don't see it as a viable option. Your suggestion is the equivalent of adding attunements for flex raiding. If we're going to do that why don't we just put attunements back in the game for everyone and not just casual players?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Strydr0 View Post
    The problem in my mind isn't that looking for raid provides content for people who don't feel the urge to do normal's etc. Its the fact that its a wall to get into normal. Back before Lfr, you could spam heroic's, farm those badges etc and then hop into normal. Now LFR has turned into the entry point.. And its a wall. Why should "Rick" who is a raider leveling an alt he wants to gear up have to play with "Billy" who plays a few hours a week to do looking for raid. This also contributes to a pack mentality, where if "Billy" Is really bad at the game, then other people will feel they only have to perform to the level of "Billy" to not be removed from the group. Now blizzard knows Billy is a bad player but he does pay for the game, so they made it so "Billy" can get gear to still feel accomplished. The only two reasonable fixes I see for this are to either A. Make looking for raid to have a repeated chance to drop gear, Or B. Make heroic instances or scenario's or something with a smaller wall, drop entry level items.

    This has also caused allot of hate on Looking For raid since it is the end of an expansion where most guilds at first glance require a legendary cloak, So what does "Jim" who didn't keep up on the quest line or just re sub do? Do looking for raid every week, get frustrated because he has to climb a HUGE wall to raid normals.
    That huge wall though was in place by players (legendary cloaks) you can clear normal mode with out it. Now I do agree that there needed to an alternative to LFR for some gearing purposes. Prior to 5.2 that was clearly dungeons. Heroic 5man content was aimed at gearing you for raids and Normal mode was done with said gear in mind.

    5.2 had no catch up to get its required gear to complete it other than running previous tier gear or doing LFR. That was an issue. 5.3 tried to fix it and fell short. 5.4 has at least allowed you to get timeless gear that can get you into some raids. But again the barrier here will be "guilds" or other players telling you no. The game allows you to do 5.4 content. In TBC you had to go through Heroics/Kara SSC TK etc to do any higher raids. This system while still flawed is miles better than that.

    Wraths catch up with 5man dungeons is also a good way of doing it.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    There is no difference between LFR and a dungeon, except that LFR followed by just higher difficulties means that essentially players will be repeating the same stuff many many times.

    Raid it on LFR? Next to Flex. Done with Flex? Enjoy Normal. Good enough for Normal? Heroic time.
    That is just ridiculous and tedious. Nobody wants to have multiple tiers of content all be the same thing. That's why it nice for heroic to have an extra boss. (Sinestra Algalon Ra-den)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fine. All heroic raiding guilds quit vs all non-raiders (excluding those who PvP) quit. See what then? See who blizzard tries to bring back with promises of content made for them.

    Every player 13/13 ToT vs every player 0/12 ToT

    Which would Blizzard actually worry about?
    Blizzard would Absolutely worry most about the 0/12 , You do realise that the Raiding community makes up -maybe- 10% of the WoW population right? so..those 0/12 go byebye, what are you left with?

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Your problem is the difficulty level. That doesn't mean that LFR has to stay. At least not in it's current form. You can have a Flex raid on a LFR-like difficulty without having to queue and group up with complete strangers and random players. An oQueue-like LFG tool can then replace the old queueing system and we don't have to spam trade chat and we will have a much broader search for players because it's crossrealm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah.... just go back a few pages and look what I wrote instead of telling me that I am not offering a solution and only want to remove LFR.

    A Flexible raid on a LFR difficulty with an oQueue-like LFG tool can be used exactly the same as LFR if you still want that...
    How is that not a good proposal?
    An Oqueue like LFG tool? Blizzard will not support this because Blizzard determines who qualifies for joining a raid, not the playerbase. You have to be ilevel 460 to join LFR, if players got to decide who came they would require 476 even though the loot the LFR drops is 476. This would only ensure that people who have not proven themselves to be capable would have a road block to improving themselves.
    That and the difficulty of LFR is set due to the only form of communication being a text based system. If they had a voice based system of communication in game that would help a lot but that's not going to happen and not every player knows about add ons and voice chat systems. The ability to play wow should not be based on requring using programs outside of wow. It should be a self-contained system.

    And Oqueue is not all that people like to believe it is, you still get crap players who don't live up to standards and you get really good players who split after 1 wipe because the rest are not good enough. It takes the 3 star restaraunt of Flex and turns it into the Mc'Dowwels of raiding.

    If you want afkers out of LFR then you have to make it so fights require that everyone has active participation in a fight to achieve loot, the garrosh fight is a good example because at several points you have to rush down a hall to get the boss and those who are afk are obvious.

    They also need to make it so I have unlimited kicks to get rid of bad players, I have been on a 2 hour lock out for 3 months now. I can't kick an AFK asshat if I wanted to. Am I a chronic kicker? No, theres just an unlimited amount of afk asshats that have to be removed in order to progress.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Method, Midwinter and Blood Legion all went on strike at the start I next expansion Blizzard would scramble to get them back. Why? Because they are the players who have stayed here for a long time. The ones who don't quit because they have bad loot luck or got nerfed.
    they wouldn't care because thats maybe 100 subs they would loose, and + 100 or -100 doesn't matter. LFR will stay, because more people would quit without it, because nothing to do and lets simple face it, once you reach max-lvl in wow there's nothing to do but dungeons or raids (be it flex / lfr / normal) and you want to tell 95% of the subscripers thx but either you wanna play hardcore or have nothing to do .......

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Comparing Apples to Oranges here.

    If 75 heroic raiders, whom the entire world watches and enjoys watching, leave, I agree they will be replaced by the next best thing.

    If 75 casual players left due to LFR being removed, and Flex being dumbed down slightly to be the pug raid, no one would even notice.

    If we're going to assume all casual players will leave if LFR is removed, we have to do the same with heroic/normal raiders.
    If all the Heroic raiders left due to heroic raids being removed, Blizzard would be in a pretty damn bad place. Not just because hardcore players would leave entirely, but because Normal raiders who beat the last boss would then unsub until the next raid patch.

    So I consider it a pretty noticable difference between your argument.
    While Blizzard does not want the raiders to go they -can- survive modestly without them. If the casuals left there would not be a game left for the hardcore raider. Raider leaving = wound that scars, Casuals leave = Wound that kills.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I didn't say it was comparable, but it would still be pretty bad.

    There are flaws in both arguments; Both the one I quoted and my own. Namely: Not all casual players would up and leave just because LFR is gone. With LFR gone, more content can be created as less time is spent balancing the game on multiple difficulties. Whether this would go to hardcore content or casual friendly content is up to Blizzard. Not all casuals enjoy raiding, either; Many would stay to RP, many would pug Flex, many would continue doing quests/world content that they already do. Hardcore players may also leave without enough to do outside of raid content.
    Similarly, if hardcore raids were removed, not all heroic raiders would up and leave immediately. They may switch to PvP after downing normal content. Casuals may leave because they only enjoyed playing to play the same game as the hardcore people they watched, and aspired to be as good as. And, just like the previous statement, scaling for multiple difficulties wouldn't be needed, leaving room for more content development.

    I was just saying, you can't compare apples to oranges and expect to have a valid argument.
    indeed I agree its a silly argument to make as its obvious to which side blizzard would take if push really came to shove.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    You can always go to wowhead and compare Raggy in MC to heroic Raggy in FL...
    Heck, compare Raggy in MC to Immersius in LFR! Today's first LFR fight is actually as complicated as MC's end boss. Isn't that telling you something?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    snip
    I don't see either of those things.

    The paradigm did not shift; it was yanked the other way by the developers, with the lure of rewards to facilitate the change. Players were blinded by shinies while being driven to a form of gameplay that they did not come to the game for. I don't know how can anyone justify switching an open world game to a dungeon-based one with any viable reasoning. Players just follow the game's direction because they can't do much of anything else, they are not the developers or their bosses. But when they partake in activities that they are not interested in they will get bored/annoyed, and will lose interest. Is that the only reason the game has declined in popularity? No. But is is one of the main.

    As for the game getting boring due to the players doing the same things all of the time: I play Street Fighter for more than 10 years. I am still not bored of it. Or of Super Mario. Or Zelda. Or Elder Scrolls. Or Grand Theft Auto. Etc. I don't understand why I would get bored of World of WarCraft. Especially since this is a game that gets constantly changed. What is more, what advanced story-telling? In the end it's all about killing/collecting there as well. See, if you want to get to the mechanics of things, both versions are the same. So no, vanilla was not just about killing collecting and overcoming, not more than the current version is, or any other game ever.

    As for the overarching storyline, it has its good points: better quality, but its bad as well: loss of racial identity, lack of multiple campaigns->lack of content, reduced replay-ability. I would much rather play a genuine tauren campaign than be just another soldier aiding the Horde. I would prefer to act as a shaman, not just be called as such in quest text from time to time for flavour; have me do shamany stuff! I want my role-playing session to actually have role-playing elements; I want my character's elements to be meaningful, not just a skin.

    And all of those different options, all the content potentially derived from all those options, would lead to an immense amount of content, to keep players busy for a long time. It's what vanilla did, it's what Elder Scrolls do (the main campaign is more of an excuse rather than important), and it seems to work, time and again, with very good results: vanilla was a period of happiness for most players (mostly high-performance players complained about balance-related things, like they always do), and Skyrim is an immense success both critically and commercially. Why not follow the recipe if it is working, and when the current recipe is failing so badly? Or at least attempt to with a cheaper, more time-efficient version.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-10-31 at 03:16 PM.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Lierial View Post
    they wouldn't care because thats maybe 100 subs they would loose, and + 100 or -100 doesn't matter. LFR will stay, because more people would quit without it, because nothing to do and lets simple face it, once you reach max-lvl in wow there's nothing to do but dungeons or raids (be it flex / lfr / normal) and you want to tell 95% of the subscripers thx but either you wanna play hardcore or have nothing to do .......
    The reality is that only in an elitists wet dream does LFR go and Raiding continues to be as glorious as its ever been.

    If LFR goes then resources will be taken from raid creation content to make content to occupy casuals, there is no way in hell blizzard is going to let 80% of its playerbase have nothing to do. More dungeons, more scenarios, more challenge modes, more pet battles, more casual events and content like farmville or pokewow.

    Should LFR go then raiding will loose a lot of resources and they will get less raid bosses less often. Resources are not ifinite. Currently they design a raid then add some harder mechanics to make heroic mode, then they take normal raid and dumb it down and slap some queue in and end code on it, test them and walla, content for casuals. They have said that a dungeon takes just about as long as a raid wing to design. It takes 6 months to make 4 wings, to keep casuals occupied they would have to make 2 dungeons a month. Thats 12 dungeons (or 12 raid wings) every 6 months.

    LFR is not going anywhere. It's already being hard baked into the next expansion. It fills its purpose, it gives casuals dumbed down raid content so that 100% of endgame resources can be funneled into raiding. That is its only purpose, not welfare purples, not 'I payed $15', not 'earn your rewards'. Its all about keeping casuals in raid content so more raid content can be made.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    As for the game getting boring due to the players doing the same things all of the time: I play Street Fighter for more than 10 years. I am still not bored of it. Or of Super Mario. Or Zelda. Or Elder Scrolls. Or Grand Theft Auto. Etc. I don't understand why I would get bored of World of WarCraft. Especially since this is a game that gets constantly changed.
    How often do you play those? Every day? Once a week? Once a month? Would you continue to shell out $15 a month for each of those titles for the privilege of playing them again when you got the urge? I didn't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    An Oqueue like LFG tool? Blizzard will not support this because Blizzard determines who qualifies for joining a raid, not the playerbase. You have to be ilevel 460 to join LFR, if players got to decide who came they would require 476 even though the loot the LFR drops is 476. This would only ensure that people who have not proven themselves to be capable would have a road block to improving themselves.
    Blizzard determines who qualifies for joining a raid and not the playerbase? Yes in LFR only and it really is working out great is it?

    Ofcourse you can not make your own group? And ofcourse, like all the naive people on the forums think, there are no pugs with reasonable requirements?
    That and the difficulty of LFR is set due to the only form of communication being a text based system. If they had a voice based system of communication in game that would help a lot but that's not going to happen and not every player knows about add ons and voice chat systems. The ability to play wow should not be based on requring using programs outside of wow. It should be a self-contained system.
    I've cleared Flex in a completely random pug without voice communication. I also don't understand how this matters when the difficulty remains the same? Does it suddenly require voice communication because the name changed?
    And Oqueue is not all that people like to believe it is, you still get crap players who don't live up to standards and you get really good players who split after 1 wipe because the rest are not good enough. It takes the 3 star restaraunt of Flex and turns it into the Mc'Dowwels of raiding.
    Yes, just like in every other form of group. This happens in LFR, Flex and guilds and also in 5 mans and scenarios. This will never change and the only ones who can do something about it are the players themselves by communicating to eachother what they expect, want and can offer. You are not able to do that in LFR.

    If you want afkers out of LFR then you have to make it so fights require that everyone has active participation in a fight to achieve loot, the garrosh fight is a good example because at several points you have to rush down a hall to get the boss and those who are afk are obvious.

    They also need to make it so I have unlimited kicks to get rid of bad players, I have been on a 2 hour lock out for 3 months now. I can't kick an AFK asshat if I wanted to. Am I a chronic kicker? No, theres just an unlimited amount of afk asshats that have to be removed in order to progress.
    This will automatically remove all (edit: wait... not all but a lot. Before someone is going to nitpick about that.) the "toxic" behaviour from your groups because you decide who you play with instead of being put in a group with random players every single time.

    I think the whole current votekick system is flawed. Voting is a good thing but all the protection and limitations can go for all I care. Been over this in other threads (mostly on official forums) so I am not going into this again in this thread.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Comparing Apples to Oranges here.

    If 75 heroic raiders, whom the entire world watches and enjoys watching, leave, I agree they will be replaced by the next best thing.

    If 75 casual players left due to LFR being removed, and Flex being dumbed down slightly to be the pug raid, no one would even notice.

    If we're going to assume all casual players will leave if LFR is removed, we have to do the same with heroic/normal raiders.
    If all the Heroic raiders left due to heroic raids being removed, Blizzard would be in a pretty damn bad place. Not just because hardcore players would leave entirely, but because Normal raiders who beat the last boss would then unsub until the next raid patch.

    So I consider it a pretty noticable difference between your argument.
    Who the hell said anything about 75 casuals? You like to take what I say and change the entire meaning to fit your narrative in your head. I said if 75 world first raiders went on strike Blizzard would not even notice it. If the casual players quit then Blizzard would about face and fix it. I didn’t say 75 casuals. 75 of any type of player regardless of raiding skills/time is not going to be noticed. Saying 75 world first raiders can make Blizzard sit up and change its ways is either the argument of a pre-teen or someone with an over inflated mentality as to the worth of a raider guild to a 7.5 million playerbase.
    Hardcore raiders represent 10-15% of the playerbase, loosing 750k to 1million players is a scarring wound, loosing 6.25 million casual players is a death blow. To the bean counter working at blizzard a world first raiding bean is still a bean.

  14. #434
    Deleted
    Just have flex replace LFR. Still a casual experience and really, flex takes the same amount of time if not less than LFR.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Blizzard determines who qualifies for joining a raid and not the playerbase? Yes in LFR only and it really is working out great is it?

    Ofcourse you can not make your own group? And ofcourse, like all the naive people on the forums think, there are no pugs with reasonable requirements?


    I've cleared Flex in a completely random pug without voice communication. I also don't understand how this matters when the difficulty remains the same? Does it suddenly require voice communication because the name changed?


    Yes, just like in every other form of group. This happens in LFR, Flex and guilds and also in 5 mans and scenarios. This will never change and the only ones who can do something about it are the players themselves by communicating to eachother what they expect, want and can offer. You are not able to do that in LFR.



    This will automatically remove all (edit: wait... not all but a lot. Before someone is going to nitpick about that.) the "toxic" behaviour from your groups because you decide who you play with instead of being put in a group with random players every single time.

    I think the whole current votekick system is flawed. Voting is a good thing but all the protection and limitations can go for all I care. Been over this in other threads (mostly on official forums) so I am not going into this again in this thread.
    I want Blizzard to decide who is worthy to do content, not You. Frankly I already call your judgement of who is worthy into question. If you allow the playerbase to decide who gets to do content then you will just get the raiding guild dilemma all over again, only the elite get invited in and those who have not proven themselves get stuck in go no where groups or get to do nothing. You're all just going to have to learn to get along and do LFR togeather or choose to not do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If LFR didn't work then people would not use it. It may have its flaws but its obviously a system that is working for the rest of us.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    How often do you play those? Every day? Once a week? Once a month? Would you continue to shell out $15 a month for each of those titles for the privilege of playing them again when you got the urge? I didn't think so.
    I don't play WoW every day either. Yet I still pay for it. Just like the various iterations of all the other games I mentioned. What is your point? Value for money? Because if that is it then it makes little sense since World of WarCraft is one of the most overpriced games in existence. Pay to acquire, pay monthly for access to servers, and pay for additional services where what costs the company next to nothing costs the customer 20 euros, in a period of economic crisis and game-bundles nonetheless.

    We are all on the losing side just by subscribing to the game. If you are looking for value for money then you are better off with Steam, or browser games. For 15 euros a month, on a 7 million subscriptions multiplier, we could actually have the immense in size game I am talking about. Not only instances to repeat each day/week. But the ways of the people that call the shots at Blizzard are such that that won't probably happen any time soon, if ever. The way things are, your, and mine, and everyone else's 15 euros a month go mostly into high-corporate accounts, while we end up with an excuse of an island to stand around and wait to kill a rare mob that spawns as if we have a date with it.

    So no, I don't play Street Fighter every day. Or Super Mario. Or Grand Theft Auto. But I don't play WoW either. First of all because I am just too busy for that and want to do other things as well. And secondly because even if I wanted to there is no content to sustain entertaining sessions on such a schedule in the game as it is for me. WoW would be just as boring if I played almost every day as Zelda would be. Only I pay for Zelda once every release.

    PS:To be clear, I don't dislike raiding. I actually like it a lot, although I would prefer if it was more connected to the world of the game. But I like exploring and questing more, and there is a severe lack of such content in the game right now, and has been for years.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-10-31 at 03:47 PM.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    So no, I don't play Street Fighter every day. Or Super Mario. Or Grand Theft Auto. But I don't play WoW either. First of all because I am just too busy for that and want to do other things as well. And secondly because even if I wanted to there is no content to sustain an entertaining sessions on such a schedule in the game as it is for me. WoW would be just as boring if I played almost every day as Zelda would be. Only I pay for Zelda once every release.
    My point was that if those other games worked like WoW you would be shelling out $75 per month instead of $15 per month to play them. That would add up over time and you would eventually drop one or more of those subs. That's why those games aren't comparable to WoW. As the cost of a game increases the demand for it decreases. It's simple economics. WoW has an ongoing price so its demand will decrease over time in the absence of new content. That's why it's completely different from those other games. That was the point I was making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    PS:To be clear, I don't dislike raiding. I actually like it a lot, although I would prefer if it was more connected to the world of the game. But I like exploring and questing more, and there is a severe lack of such content in the game right now, and has been for years.
    I am completely in agreement with you there, but that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part because they wanted to focus more on raiding and less on other stuff. The irony in Cataclysm was how they went through all that trouble to revamp all the starter areas and then completely undermined those efforts by introducing mechanisms in the game to guarantee that players would lose interest in each of those areas before they were even half way through them. It's a pity.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  18. #438
    Since you're not raiding, take the time to study your class during your offline time and learn to play.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I'm not convinced I like that attitude, but I've no doubt that you're absolutely right; it's casual players who provide the vast, vast majority of the playerbase in this game and it's high-time they stopped being fed reconstituted and watered down "content", just so that Blizzard can justify making rock hard raids from normal up.

    But to the OP's question:

    1) Fix the actual raiding platform; four modes is too much. Downtune normal mode and make it flexible, with heroic only being available on 25-man. The next step is putting up with the almighty din that'd come from 10-man heroic raiders, then three months down the line the raiding game ends up in far healthier shape again because 25-man guilds were salvaged. Leave LFR where it is. Lastly, remove the Thunder/Warforged items, they're not achieving anything.

    2) Drop the size of raids to 9 to 12 bosses per tier, and then ensure that there is at least one dungeon per patch. Scrap challenge modes, make heroic modes truly heroic, and give them rewards equal to LFR (meta-achievements can be used for mounts/mogging gear). Stop, however, with the rail-roaded, twenty minute, 3-boss pieces of shit we've been served up for years and start thinking back to the original Stratholme and Blackrock Spire. THAT is what a dungeon should be, and it forms endgame for casual players. Then, reinstate the dungeon sets of The Burning Crusade such as the Oblivion Raiment and the like so that players can still progress in them.

    3) Overhaul the profession system entirely so that it, too, can be a part of endgame. Alternative Chat recently spoke about this, but professions have been entirely stripped of their depth since mid-Wrath. It sucks. Systems could be put in place for skilled crafters so that they can make a plan, but see it get a bonus if they're particularly skilled (via skill-based profession quests, number of patterns known, etc/etc). Bonuses could include them being already 2/2 upgraded, or simply a higher item level or with more secondary stats. The absolute gold here would be a cool proc. For the love of Jeebus, bring back crafting specializations and make mastery time consuming.

    4) Major lore events need to stop happening in raids. Domination Point was a great example of how to do this, and the new tech for random events on the Timeless Isle make more possibilities land squarely on the table. Reward exploration outside of quest objectives with cool visual content rather than items destined to become vendor materials (but make them repeatable, similar to the fall of the Lich King).

    5) Develop scenarios so that they can be placed earlier in the game and act as proving grounds on the way up. I'd be particularly keen on solo-scenarios that revealed major lore points such as the death of Illidan or the destruction of Yogg-Saron. Players in a "raid" of NPC's can then be taught boss-related mechanics that increase their skill level while helping them to enjoy the rich lore of the game, rather than the dull proving grounds which don't really do much of anything.

    6) For fuck's sake, fix PvP. Stop treating it like a meaningless side game and give the community some respect. Balance it properly with PvP specs rather than trying to shoe-horn every spec into raiding, then make the content more interesting than merely random BG's or a bit of arena. Bring back world PvP zones, and make some more from the earlier game but scale players so that there's no pointless ganking. Then make a set of PvP campaigns so that PvP players can enjoy the sense of progression from the "new content" angle rather than merely farming gear.

    7) Beef up the difficulty of levelling quests and dungeons. For crying out loud it's too easy, too fast and laughably pointless. Failure isn't introduced until level 90 and that's all kinds of wrong. Levels can then be made more meaningful rather than largely forgettable, while also making casual players appreciate the content more. Stop treating new players as if they're droopy-eyed armless children who can't press buttons. They're not.

    8) Lastly, and by no means least, to Blizzard: Stop blaming one side of the community when the other side cries. It's putting people at each other's throat. Take responsibility for bad design decisions rather than blaming an intangible group of people, then hiding behind "we have all the data". Stop assuming everyone wants to raid just because you do, and think about how to provide meaningful content for casual players rather than useless, queued mini-games that have no real impact on a character.

    That's my starter for 10.
    I really just want to hug you right now, please why can't we have more people like you. That was the single greatest post I've ever seen.
    Hey everyone

  20. #440
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by robotis View Post
    Assuming you realize most people won't ever step up to Flex/Normal/Heroic, and rarely, if ever do guilded/organized activities.

    2) The late wrath model:
    A highly puggable raid/part of a raid
    Dungeons
    let people do dungeons and get full epics, and make it possible to pug the old content. OR you could make LFR harder, but idk if that would help.. bad players would still queue and be carried i guess. In theory, though, it could make people actually try.

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