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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    WoW has two strong components that do wonders for player retention, IMO:
    -sense of progression that you can't let go of easily since you've invested so much
    -familiarity with players and social bonds

    Letting players solo all max level content may be a highly requested change to the game but in the end you'll ruin yourself so long as you rely on player retention. You really don't want WoW to feel like a game you can pick up and drop, you want them to feel like that can't leave, you're trying to sell a drug here, don't cut down it's potency so players can get on with their daily chores, get them hooked!
    While I absolutely agree that those are the best (and essentially only way, really) to maintain retention in an MMO, what do you do when the majority of your playerbase avoids those two aspects?

    Do you ignore that for years, and keep doing things like you were doing anyways, relying on churn? Because they did do that, despite all logic otherwise, until the churn stopped :x


    I mean, I agree with you, in so much that giving everyone everything so quick is bad, but what choice did they really have when churn stopped, and retention began a free fall?

    If anything, Blizzard should try balancing these things, and not being all one thing, or all the other. But in a lot of ways, pandora's box has been opened, and there's nothing they can really do, since the people who probably would of been interested have probably quit for good, or already have long ago tried WoW or whatever. It's not exactly getting the new people these days!

    The best thing would be a complete overhaul of the entire "system" (as in, the leveling/raiding/dungeoning/whatever process, in and out. Leveling, especially, has been gutted in a way that I can't see this game appealing to any new players ever, save for a very thin niche.), changing how you acquire the game in and of itself, lowering the sub fees, giving the game a new subtitle to make it "feel" new, and running with that. Maybe a huge advertising campaign, too.

  2. #782
    LFR isn't casual friendly. In fact, it's not anything friendly.

    It's an environment where the casual is funnelled because it's their only legitimate option. And it's there that the casual player is frustrated, berated, kicked and unsatisfied.

    I'd like to see content actually built for the casual player that they would be able to genuinely enjoy with other like minded players. Something that supports community rather than mindless, anonymous matchmaking.

    Do I know what that would be? Not really. That's what we pay Blizzard to figure out.

  3. #783
    LFR is just terrible this tier, all average and above players run flex so lfr is filled with all kinds of retards and ppl who don't even know the bread and butter of the class they play and the base abilities of a boss, on top of that is filled with kids and all kind of scum, i'm for removal.
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  4. #784
    I don't get why people play an MMO, then get mad at having to meet people and actually put groups together. The LFD/LFR system has been nothing but bad for this game. If you don't like setting up groups and things, go play a single player game.

  5. #785
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    LFR isn't casual friendly. In fact, it's not anything friendly.

    It's an environment where the casual is funnelled because it's their only legitimate option. And it's there that the casual player is frustrated, berated, kicked and unsatisfied.

    I'd like to see content actually built for the casual player that they would be able to genuinely enjoy with other like minded players. Something that supports community rather than mindless, anonymous matchmaking.

    Do I know what that would be? Not really. That's what we pay Blizzard to figure out.
    I think you confuse casual with bad. Also there is more to do in this game then ever before so what exactly do "casuals" think they are missing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotsforyou View Post
    I don't get why people play an MMO, then get mad at having to meet people and actually put groups together. The LFD/LFR system has been nothing but bad for this game. If you don't like setting up groups and things, go play a single player game.
    I also don't get why people think they have to raid.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    I think you confuse casual with bad. Also there is more to do in this game then ever before so what exactly do "casuals" think they are missing?
    I think you're confusing casual with bad. You don't have to be a bad player to want casual content. Not everyone who doesn't raid is a bad player, they just play for different things than raiding.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotsforyou View Post
    I don't get why people play an MMO, then get mad at having to meet people and actually put groups together. The LFD/LFR system has been nothing but bad for this game. If you don't like setting up groups and things, go play a single player game.
    How come that only applies for MMOs? You'd never apply that logic to any other multiplayer genre :x It's kind of unfair, and sort of degrading of the other people someone is playing around!


    That being said, you're not entirely wrong. But if Blizzard didn't have these people, who knows how many people'd be left playing! Maybe it'd be the same. Maybe it'd be less than 1 million!

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by machineman View Post
    Just to be clear, LFR is not raiding content. It's not group content. It's solo content.

    WildStar is bringing 40 man raids back, and I think Blizzard is in for a bit of a rude awakening.
    Yeah when all their hardcore raiders quit and subscriptions drop by a whopping 4% or whatever as a result they'll sure learn a lesson. That lesson will be: Why did we ever think those people mattered in the first place?

    Enjoy being irrelevant.

  9. #789
    As a casual player I want more five mans instead of LFR.

  10. #790
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    When LFR was initially implemented back in Dragon Soul, my guild was going through a patch of drama at the same time, one that a lot of the higher up people in the guild knew was going to come eventually since the end of Wrath of the Lich King. Finally though, someone had gained a lot of authority in guild and decided that they were just going to push through it rather than let it sit there. With LFR being new (I don't know how the guild does it now), people in guild were queueing up at random and if you didn't queue up with someone when they were doing their run for loot, rarely would they want to do it a second time.

    So at that point in time, I really didn't want to put up with the drama any more and wanted a break from the guild, it felt like the game was pushing me into high end content with random people so I could progress and keep up with the rest of my guild, and Dragon Soul was filled with a lot of 1 tank fights, or at least it was on normal mode, so me and the other tank in the guild had to figure out who was going to be DPSing most fights.

    I said screw it and left. Checked things out at the beginning of MoP and when things didn't look different left again and haven't looked back since.

    This is the longest period of time I haven't come back to World of Warcraft, and really am not interested in coming back unless the new expansion is amazing. That being said, I've played several other MMOs in the mean time, and still prefer WoW's type of gameplay. The content that is there now is completely uninteresting to me however, and it feels to me that WoW is in the same place that so many of its competitors were for the past 7 years. It wants to be WoW, and has many of the same components, but can't figure out how to actually be good.
    Long as you understand coming in you will dps the one tank fights we have a place for you. ;P





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  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Lins View Post
    Yet again, people whine "oh my god its so hard to bring 25 ppl, i wanna raid everything in 10ppl"
    Spoken like someone not involved in managing a 25man raiding guild. I was, and its quite the logistical headache that probably contributed to my burning out and going casual. The option for 10 man raiding was an excellent and long overdue addition.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Spoken like someone not involved in managing a 25man raiding guild. I was, and its quite the logistical headache that probably contributed to my burning out and going casual. The option for 10 man raiding was an excellent and long overdue addition.
    I would argue it's a cancer to the game. If you can't play 25 anymore due to logistics and life, then it's not for you. Don't ask the game to change to fit your lifestyle.

    Instead what Blizzard could and should do is offer a separate non-raid progression path for solo and small group players.

  13. #793
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    I´m personally not looking for lfr to be removed - I would however like it to not be the same damn instance 3 times in a row (and with flex 4), so each difficulty level had a different instance and even with raid sizes.

    Also answer would be: Pvp, 5 man instances, dailies and w/e quests might be left, achievements outside raids.
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  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by machineman View Post
    I would argue it's a cancer to the game. If you can't play 25 anymore due to logistics and life, then it's not for you. Don't ask the game to change to fit your lifestyle.

    Instead what Blizzard could and should do is offer a separate non-raid progression path for solo and small group players.
    10 man raiding is fine, but I'm not sure what was wrong with the WotLK model. Cata merging the two brought more pain to my guild than benefit.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    How come that only applies for MMOs? You'd never apply that logic to any other multiplayer genre :x It's kind of unfair, and sort of degrading of the other people someone is playing around!


    That being said, you're not entirely wrong. But if Blizzard didn't have these people, who knows how many people'd be left playing! Maybe it'd be the same. Maybe it'd be less than 1 million!
    It's applied to the Battlefield quite often in the last two games. The singleplayer wasn't good by general opinion but who can really be upset about it since BF was built for the multiplayer. Adding BOTs shouldn't ever be implemented because the game wasn't made with intentions of playing against AI.

    The maps are going to be too variable to design a good AI that uses the destructable environments, the tools and the gadgets and vehicles.

    But that shouldn't mean Battlefield should make their maps more linear so AI is easier to program for the singeplayer.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    It's applied to the Battlefield quite often in the last two games. The singleplayer wasn't good by general opinion but who can really be upset about it since BF was built for the multiplayer. Adding BOTs shouldn't ever be implemented because the game wasn't made with intentions of playing against AI.

    The maps are going to be too variable to design a good AI that uses the destructable environments, the tools and the gadgets and vehicles.

    But that shouldn't mean Battlefield should make their maps more linear so AI is easier to program for the singeplayer.
    Not what I meant. What I meant is, is when you play online, via matchmaking, it doesn't suddenly become single player to people :x Or any other kind of multiplayer game on earth, seemingly, but MMOs.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Apparently empathy is a trait long dead among players in this game. You have no right to bitch about the lack of community in the game. You cannot have a community when you lack the ability to empathize with others, especially those who are weaker at this game then you are.
    Your reply has nothing at all to do with what I said.

    He lists 2 essentially single player games, all with very static content. You can play D3, put it down for any length of time, and be no further behind content than when you started your break from it. He also lists one of the more unforgiving games in recent history, which makes me laugh, considering how much rage that game's mechanics would cause on the forums.

    The great thing about all 3 games of course, is that they're different from each other, and different from this. So when you're in the mood for a particular flavor of game, it's a far better option to go play what you like rather than wishing 1 title did it all.
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  18. #798
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Sadly, I do miss end WotLK progression. I enjoyed doing 5 mans over and over, getting rep from dungeons and building up my BoF to buy baseline T10. I wasn't top tier, but my god I didn't feel like I was wasting my time either. I actually felt like I was playing the game how I wanted to and getting a reasonable reward for my time invested. It is something that I haven't felt from WoW for a while now.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    Sadly, I do miss end WotLK progression. I enjoyed doing 5 mans over and over, getting rep from dungeons and building up my BoF to buy baseline T10. I wasn't top tier, but my god I didn't feel like I was wasting my time either. I actually felt like I was playing the game how I wanted to and getting a reasonable reward for my time invested. It is something that I haven't felt from WoW for a while now.
    That's because the game has in essence been reduced to running the same instance over and over. In terms of character progression it's become:

    Get to 90 -> Farm Timesink Isle for 496 gear -> Raid SoO LFR -> Raid SoO Flex -> Raid SoO Normal -> Raid SoO Heroic.

    That is basically it. There is room for the difficulty levels, but there's a lot more room for some genuine alternative gearing paths.

  20. #800
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    That's because the game has in essence been reduced to running the same instance over and over. In terms of character progression it's become:

    Get to 90 -> Farm Timesink Isle for 496 gear -> Raid SoO LFR -> Raid SoO Flex -> Raid SoO Normal -> Raid SoO Heroic.

    That is basically it. There is room for the difficulty levels, but there's a lot more room for some genuine alternative gearing paths.
    Which is ironic considering people were apparently bitching about having to run the same dungeons over and over again and the develiopers insist the game is just chalk full of options and variety now...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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