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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azshira View Post
    They already have tackled his health by 10% in the past. They just finished around of HP nerfs on other bosses there. LFR is at its most demanding in my opinion now so than ever. However, you do meet some really good groups who do listen and can do their role effectively. I do find these generally on the same day of reset though.
    Problem is, even stupid DBM bitches that you should "stop DPS on boss."

    The Nazgrim wipes are pretty much independent of day and time as far as I can tell. And as far as the supposed skill of reset day groups goes, I wiped on Pride twice on Tuesday, in two separate groups (got DCed after doing the whole instance up through the first wipe, and the same thing happened again).

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Leave the Shamans as they are, maybe try and "buff" the LFR-audiences brains a little by implementing some built-in DBM-equivalent?
    Like the one that already exists putting warnings in yellow text in the chatbox and the middle of your screen? Blizz has added some warnings and announcements to default UI now, some people still refuse to read them.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It's lovely that they nerfed the packs of adds in LFR that required 15 sec too long to kill, but the DPS available to a typical LFR group is still basically never enough to take Nazgrim down without 1-2+ stacks of determination.

    I'm freaking tired of zoning into the instance on the last boss and when I should think "yay, quick 15 min valor!" it's a 48 minute clusterfuckfest.

    Just lop 100M health off the dude already and be done with it. What is the fucking point, seriously, Blizzard? The groups don't have the DPS. I don't know why. But they don't.

    No amount of setting the bar higher is going to raise the floor higher.
    Since the wing opened, i have killed him every week.... total wipes on Nazgrim up untill now in alle the runs: 2 (on different runs).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    Since the wing opened, i have killed him every week.... total wipes on Nazgrim up untill now in alle the runs: 2 (on different runs).
    Yeah, sure, that's 50% of the story, or a complete lie.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Yeah, sure, that's 50% of the story, or a complete lie.
    Or, you know, his personal experiences differed from yours.

    My personal experience (only done it 3 times): 3 stacks, pull and kill, 5 stacks. That's with laying off during defensive.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Yeah, sure, that's 50% of the story, or a complete lie.
    Or you just got unlucky with your groups. After the first week (which was a wipe fest like every opening week is in lfr), I haven't wiped on nazgrim more than 5 times total doing it across multiple characters. Fights not that bad on lfr. certainly not anywhere near Garalon levels for lfr.

  7. #27
    Brewmaster Daedelus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Sometimes you get groups that do terrible DPS and hit enrage. That's just the way the dice roll.

    I've only hit enrage on him once I think, and it was mostly because people died to adds.
    And why did people die to adds? Either because a) dps tunnelled the boss (including during defensive stance) or because b) their dps was too low to clean up the adds or c) both of the above. It's probably c. DPS in LFR is risibly low. If you're lucky you'll get half a dozen who break 100K but the majority are hovering around 60K. 60K DPS! HOW?

  8. #28
    My own experience of this boss is wipe the first try by not meeting dps requirements by a mile, then second try it's beaten relatively easily. My conclusion - last boss of the instance so half the raid goes afk.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus View Post
    And why did people die to adds? Either because a) dps tunnelled the boss (including during defensive stance) or because b) their dps was too low to clean up the adds or c) both of the above. It's probably c. DPS in LFR is risibly low. If you're lucky you'll get half a dozen who break 100K but the majority are hovering around 60K. 60K DPS! HOW?
    Maybe because the itemlvl is obtainable by just farming Timeless gear, that means ppl can farm the gear even without knowing shit about their role/class and how they should play it. My experience is that most of them aren't even cheap-enchanted/gemmed. Which also increase dps something between 10k-50k. There's so many things that affect the gameplay. And by adding the new timeless isle gear, ppl are getting it very fast and can queue for the SoO LFR. Not like before patch 5.4 where you had to do the other LFR's and learn a bit more about how to play, mechanics etc. than just reaching SoO LFR iLvl requirement and queue without knowing shit about how to play.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    [subjective rants about not being able to down nazgrim with a group full of baddies in LFR. CONLCUSION:] Encounter is broken.
    just wow. even in normalmode most the bosses roll over on their own. flex is a joke. i will not even set a foot into the faceroll-party that is LFR. not to be mean or something, but i think LFR serves you right.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypro View Post
    Ok here is a better idea? as soon as you go into LFR the bosses are dead and all you need to do is run around and loot the bodies??? And as to not been able to down in LFR, Avoid doing LFR get a group of 10-25 people and run flex. that way you know that they are able to handle his HP
    What an inciteful and constructive post!

    Meanwhile in the real world, the problem with Nazgrim is that people tunnel the boss for the last 20% allowing adds to take over. With Bloodlust available this is rarely an issue, but as usual someone pops BL at the start so you are doomed.

    They should really just stop adds from spawning when he hits 20%, or at least the Shamans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by brirrspliff View Post
    just wow. even in normalmode most the bosses roll over on their own. flex is a joke. i will not even set a foot into the faceroll-party that is LFR. not to be mean or something, but i think LFR serves you right.
    Love this "lolm8 flex n lfr r jokez" attitude when it comes from a player with 1 heroic boss down :P

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Snorkles's Avatar
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    I did Nazgrim with a Fury warrior using TI tanking plate, a blue 450 weapon and a green 390 weapon. It'll come as no surprise the guy was doing a measly 22k DPS!

    I think they need to rethink the entry requirements. ilvl alone is too easily fudged and inherently flawed as certain pieces are more important than others - a 502 wrist is not as big an increase as a 502 weapon but both are weighted the same when calculating your ilvl.

    Gems and enchants should be mandatory too - not BiS but appropriate at least.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Love this "lolm8 flex n lfr r jokez" attitude when it comes from a player with 1 heroic boss down :P
    He has a good point from seeing how easy flex is and having cleared normals, I dont see how him having 1 heroic boss down has to do with anything.

  14. #34
    Field Marshal Jestah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    The reason people wipe, Nazgrim's health, hasn't been nerfed on LFR.

    It's not actually excessive, except that the strategy meme is to "DPS OFF BOSS" during defensive phase, which is stupid because of how thoroughly nerfed defensive phase is in LFR, and this stupid behavior is reinforced by DBM. The math is that if you stay off Nazgrim during defensive phase with the typical DPS available to a LFR group, he will not die or even get close to death on the first pull.

    However, the (incorrect) strategy meme is set in concrete, and the boss needs less health. If you follow the strategy meme with a typical group, ONE MONTH after the wing opened, you CANNOT kill the boss on the first pull.

    Encounter is broken.
    Excuse me, you're wrong.
    ------------------------

    October 2

    Raids, Dungeons, and Scenarios

    Siege of Orgrimmar

    General Nazgrim

    Changes on Raid Finder difficulty:
    General Nazgrim's health has been reduced by 10%.
    General Nazgrim's Ravager now hits for 200,000 damage.
    General Nazgrim now gains 1 Rage when struck in Defensive Stance (down from 2 Rage).
    General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage for each target struck by Heroic Shockwave's Aftershocks (down from 3 Rage).
    General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage from Kor'kron Banner (down from 3 Rage).
    Kor'kron Warshaman's Earth Shield now heals for 2% of maximum health (down from 5%).
    Kor'kron Warshaman's Empowered Chain Heal now heals for 4% of maximum health (down from 10%).

    ---------------------

    You should really learn to read patch notes before you state false information about "He's never be nerfed" He has. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10932273/

    Also to note, try Flex raids from your server or OQueue. Once I tasted clearing Part 2 in less than an hour, I never went back to those disgusting LFR BBQ wings.
    Last edited by Jestah; 2013-10-31 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Opinion <3

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Or you just got unlucky with your groups. After the first week (which was a wipe fest like every opening week is in lfr), I haven't wiped on nazgrim more than 5 times total doing it across multiple characters. Fights not that bad on lfr. certainly not anywhere near Garalon levels for lfr.
    I'll give you Garalon, that shit molesting tit gorilla can go die in the flames of hell. But Nazgrim is still a giant camel penis protruding out of what would otherwise be a fairly reasonable LFR. I don't even think the HP is the problem with the boss, the problem is that there are THREE retardation checks that can all WRECK raids: Short berserk timer screws over raids with bad/afk dps, LOLDEFENSIVESTANCE takes a crap on anyone with too much down syndrome to obey a boss mod, and groups that suck at controlling adds get a free Lay on hands to Nazgrim in the form of the TROLOTIDE totem. The fight DOES absolutely suck, given the nature of the average LFR group. Keep in mind that not everyone has the opportunity to barrel roll into LFR first thing tuesday to join the most ambitious gear seekers and the arguably most talented of the LFR crowd, it doesn't matter which day I ran LFR other than tuesday they were all giant turdstorms that made me want to cannibalize my own arms.
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  16. #36
    The problem with LFR is that it lets you eventually collect loot without having to actually learn anything. You know you will kill the boss after enough wipes have occurred so there is no reason to learn a better strategy. Just keep doing what youre doing and youll make it happen. There should be small things in a LFR encounter that if you don't do properly you cannot ever succeed.

    For example, I think they should remove the enrage, but have the shaman full heal Nazgrim if he isn't killed fast enough.

  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    The groups DO have the DPS, they just aren't focusing it properly.
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  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    I did SoO LFR for the first time on my tank alt yesterday, ilvl 519. Topped Nazgrim DPS by 80k. Yes, the second in line did 41k DPS and it went downhill from there fast. With 4 Determination stacks.

    That's why LFR is a steaming pile of shit and should be shunned by anyone who does not have an uncontrollable urge to hurt themselves.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Yeah, sure, that's 50% of the story, or a complete lie.
    Hah, you really are bitter aren't you?

    Done him 3 times on LFR, only really wiped on him the first time because it was week 1 of the wing being out. Took control of the group the other 2 times and 1 shot him. I can see how certain groups can get stuck on him, I've had those groups on Iron Juggernaught most of the time. The first week I wiped 8 times on him in 3 different groups (they kept falling apart). Sometimes you just get delt a shitty hand, doesn't mean the shuffler is at fault.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    That is correct. By and large whenever I see a ravager, it is because a tank got to 5, or 9, or whatever stacks.

    There's almost always someone attacking during defensive stance, and basically 1 person is the same as 20. So everyone might as well do it. And, as you point out, the consequences are minor. They were minor BEFORE the nerf.

    So, as you also point out, the problem is that the strategy meme is that the group shouldn't DPS Nazgrim during defensive stance. You are correct; it's the wrong thing to do, and a group with typical DPS will always fail if it follows the "correct" strategy on its first pull. The problem is that that strategy has been in place for a month and despite the nerf that (should have) made it obvious that defensive stance was harmless in LFR, the guaranteed-failure strategy continues to be "the" strategy.

    I don't know how Blizzard can fight this virus that has infected the population in LFR other than starting the boss at 75%. So that's what should be done.

    So you openly admit that it's not so much the boss, as players in lfr just operate on the idea that they can do what they want, when they want and how they want. The only Blizzard could nerf Nazgrim to avoid wipes would be to remove the adds and the rage mechanic. And even then your average lfr would STILL find a way to wipe horribly and cry for nerfs.
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