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  1. #41
    My progression kill on Dark Shaman HC yesterday if you want to compare: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6373&e=6882

    Split boss tactic as well. I put myself at Haromm mainly because of the possibility to CoS Foul Stream and Feint + Elusiveness on the Toxic Mist to make it easier for healers.
    Last edited by Chokolata; 2013-11-11 at 11:12 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Chokolata View Post
    My progression kill on Dark Shaman HC yesterday if you want to compare: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6373&e=6882

    Split boss tactic as well. I put myself at Haromm mainly because of the possibility to CoS Foul Stream and Feint + Elusiveness on the Toxic Mist to make it easier for healers.
    Interesting ,I am in exactly same role on harrom , dodging foul stream and using glyphed clos + feint + elusiveness for Iron Prison on healers' insistence. Will definitely compare when i get back from work.


    PS: @Coldkill, it seems I have kind of hijacked your thread, if you dont mind why dont we keep this thread for subtlety WoL comparisons be it hc or normal.

    Edit- Doh! getting them shamans confused, I was on wavebinder kardris and was dodging foul slimes not streams.
    Also compared the logs, seems like i should have got in 1 more shadowdance(8:03 min fight, 483/40.5 = 11.9 , had 10 shadowdances ) and I had 20% lesser uptime on FW (45% compared to 65% of chokolata) . Apart from that I will try to convince my raid leader to have me on haromm instead of kardriss, because of lesser movement.
    Last edited by straws; 2013-11-13 at 07:03 AM.
    Playing subtlety is like ballroom dancing, just that there is an ugly monster between you and your partner (tank).
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  3. #43
    Nothing wrong in it - the purpose of the thread was exactly to give some reference to Sub PvE players since there is basically none around. Will upload logs again from Thursday since we killed Garrosh this week so nothing left to do until that day

    EDIT: renamed the thread to reflect the change.
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  4. #44
    A bit off-topic but I wanted to relay a bit of information about WOL. When looking at rankings, remember that many of the top ranks involve either fudging mechanics or extreme luck. Also, Flex logs under a certain amount of players count as normal logs. Many heroic progressed guilds run flex for valor/fun so you end up competing with heroicly geared players. I say this because many players on the raid team that my warrior leads have fallen into the trap of trying to compare themselves to players that far outgear them. WOL is an excellent tool for optimizing your rotation and monitoring your raid team, but using the ranking info as a guideline for performance is not a great idea.

  5. #45
    Last time i checked i didn't even appear on logs XD Anyway i never cared about rankings - too much epeen and fudging mechanics there.

    EDIT: i find anyway comparisons between logs of people here who have a known progress (and many times similar gear) can be useful.
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  6. #46
    Logs from last nights cleanup of remaining normals, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1&e=334#Straws
    A decent parse on malkorok normal, missed it on thok due to getting chomped , i thought i was at safe distance when he was turning but apparently I wasnt.
    Playing subtlety is like ballroom dancing, just that there is an ugly monster between you and your partner (tank).
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...traws/advanced

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Chokolata View Post
    My progression kill on Dark Shaman HC yesterday if you want to compare: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6373&e=6882

    Split boss tactic as well. I put myself at Haromm mainly because of the possibility to CoS Foul Stream and Feint + Elusiveness on the Toxic Mist to make it easier for healers.
    Toxic mist is that dot right? I'm pretty sure it always does full damage (unless I guess you can cloak immune a single tick).

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Chokolata View Post
    My progression kill on Dark Shaman HC yesterday if you want to compare <Log removed>

    Split boss tactic as well. I put myself at Haromm mainly because of the possibility to CoS Foul Stream and Feint + Elusiveness on the Toxic Mist to make it easier for healers.
    Slightly OT - For Haromm, Feint the entire cycle of Toxic Mist, but aim to Cloak the Falling Ash, not the Foul Stream, although if you time it right you can cover both.

    Back on topic, will look at picking up Sub for a progress week when work allows - going to run a flex with it on Friday to prepare. The best bosses to judge Sub on would be Malkorok-Thok-Garrosh-Norushen-Sha of Pride <-- that bunch I assume?

    What would be an acceptable level of Find Weakness on a single target fight? I'm assuming there's a value like there used to be for Shield of the Righteous for protection paladins (i.e. if you could maintain 42-45% uptime, then you were starting to get the hang of it).
    Last edited by Carnarius; 2013-11-13 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Spelling

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnarius View Post
    Slightly OT - For Haromm, Feint the entire cycle of Toxic Mist, but aim to Cloak the Falling Ash, not the Foul Stream, although if you time it right you can cover both.

    Back on topic, will look at picking up Sub for a progress week when work allows - going to run a flex with it on Friday to prepare. The best bosses to judge Sub on would be Malkorok-Thok-Garrosh-Norushen-Sha of Pride <-- that bunch I assume?

    What would be an acceptable level of Find Weakness on a single target fight? I'm assuming there's a value like there used to be for Shield of the Righteous for protection paladins (i.e. if you could maintain 42-45% uptime, then you were starting to get the hang of it).
    Depends on fight length and trinkets.
    If you have AoC then the sdance's cd is less and possible uptime is higher. In case of the log i linked for malkorok , based on my napkin math it was possible to have 52% uptime on find weakness, but I managed 62% , thanks to 2 procs from 4piece.
    Napkin math explained below -
    ((15sec x SdanceNum + 15 sec x vanishNum) /fight length )x100 = Uptime %
    floor(fightlenght/sdance cd) = sdanceNum
    floor(fightlenght/vanish cd) +1 (prep) = vanishNum

    15sec FW from vanish assuming that you have vanish glyph + subterfuge talent

    I know this is a very very rough estimate, but it gives you a certain benchmark to measure yourself.

    Edit- This formula is assuming the fact that you munch the opening FW by using sdance immediately, otherwise add 15sec more to above formula.
    Last edited by straws; 2013-11-13 at 10:22 AM.
    Playing subtlety is like ballroom dancing, just that there is an ugly monster between you and your partner (tank).
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...traws/advanced

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Toxic mist is that dot right? I'm pretty sure it always does full damage (unless I guess you can cloak immune a single tick).
    Yeah, but talented Feint means 30% reduced damage. Without the talent Feint does nothing there, since it's no AoE.

    Back on topic, will look at picking up Sub for a progress week when work allows - going to run a flex with it on Friday to prepare. The best bosses to judge Sub on would be Malkorok-Thok-Garrosh-Norushen-Sha of Pride <-- that bunch I assume?

    What would be an acceptable level of Find Weakness on a single target fight? I'm assuming there's a value like there used to be for Shield of the Righteous for protection paladins (i.e. if you could maintain 42-45% uptime, then you were starting to get the hang of it).
    If you're going flex then probably Juggernaut and Malkorok for just hammering away. I would say aim for 50-60% FW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by straws View Post
    Interesting ,I am in exactly same role on harrom , dodging foul stream and using glyphed clos + feint + elusiveness for Iron Prison on healers' insistence. Will definitely compare when i get back from work.


    PS: @Coldkill, it seems I have kind of hijacked your thread, if you dont mind why dont we keep this thread for subtlety WoL comparisons be it hc or normal.

    Edit- Doh! getting them shamans confused, I was on wavebinder kardris and was dodging foul slimes not streams.
    Also compared the logs, seems like i should have got in 1 more shadowdance(8:03 min fight, 483/40.5 = 11.9 , had 10 shadowdances ) and I had 20% lesser uptime on FW (45% compared to 65% of chokolata) . Apart from that I will try to convince my raid leader to have me on haromm instead of kardriss, because of lesser movement.
    You should definitely try sitting on Haromm. Especially considering talented Feint and how good we are at mitigating damage. I gave it one try sitting on Kardris but it didn't feel right having to either a) using CoS for blobs or b) run away and stop attacking.
    Last edited by Chokolata; 2013-11-13 at 11:09 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by straws View Post
    Logs from last nights cleanup of remaining normals, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1&e=334#Straws
    A decent parse on malkorok normal, missed it on thok due to getting chomped , i thought i was at safe distance when he was turning but apparently I wasnt.
    I want your heroic warforged dagger i don't think i'll gain that 70-80k dps by only that, but it will be a nice dmg increase.

    @Chokolata: what's the CD of Shadow Dance with the heroic upgraded AoC?
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  12. #52
    @Chokolata: what's the CD of Shadow Dance with the heroic upgraded AoC?
    40.5 seconds.

  13. #53
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    I am still getting used to check logs and things related, as I am not much into theorycrafting. I've used the formula on this thread to calculate how much uptime should I have on FW and it says that i should had 55.55%, insted of the 51% i had. Anyways, this is the link for the kill, please let me know if you guys see anything too bad on it:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/16at9...=10959&e=11202


    Not really on topic and I dont really want to start a new thread on this, but last week i went mut/combat because i wanted to give it another try. I know there is a million threads going on about this, but I am not sure which one comes ahead. From my narrowed view, sub > mut on most fights where those specs works (only a few, most of the others i go as combat).

    Thanks and sorry for the crappy english, I am feeling retarded today and it seems taht I cannot speak properly.
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  14. #54
    how does the vaish glyph help, it makes vanish last 5 sec, but the moment you use a skill you drop out of vanish/stealth, does it increase time with subterfuge ?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    how does the vaish glyph help, it makes vanish last 5 sec, but the moment you use a skill you drop out of vanish/stealth, does it increase time with subterfuge ?
    It extends the amount of time you're considered as bieng in stealth for a second. Hardly noticable most of the time but it's still a small dps increase. I wouldn't say that the glyph is mandatory by any means and can be easily swapped out for better utility.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    It extends the amount of time you're considered as bieng in stealth for a second. Hardly noticable most of the time but it's still a small dps increase. I wouldn't say that the glyph is mandatory by any means and can be easily swapped out for better utility.
    For this reason i run with Smoke, Redirect and hemo. hemos especially is more for PvP but it basically means a guaranteed 100% uptime of SV and better burst for small adds that don't last through an entire rupture.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2013-11-13 at 04:05 PM.
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  17. #57
    I had not played sub as a PvE spec until this patch, but I must say, it is one of my favorite specs at the moment (only because killing spree still causes lose of player control). With the upcoming changes in WoD with the backstab removal, it may continue to be my main spec. There are many tiny things you can pull out to max that dps and uptime. One of the most important things I would say to do is a sub rogues is to be fully aware of your trinket procs and the time left on those buffs. Vanishing during a double trinket proc to put up that 10% extra dmg along with some super strong ambushes is always fun.

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Chokolata View Post
    Yeah, but talented Feint means 30% reduced damage. Without the talent Feint does nothing there, since it's no AoE
    Obviously without the talent feint wouldn't do anything... its a dot...

    The journal description mentions that it pierces through all immunities though, you sure thats actually reducing it? I mean if it ticks through divine shield and iceblock, I would think it probably ignored reductions as well.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-11-13 at 11:59 PM.

  19. #59
    You can reduce incoming damage with talented feint and smoke bomb. You can't however ignore a tick with CoS for example.

  20. #60
    There is no reason to even feint unless you are doing it for fallen ash on Shamans. If you are doing the separation strat, rogues are usually on Earthbreaker. The dot is easily healable if yours are somewhat competent at moving from tombs; also, if you get foul stream you should have cloak unless you unluckily get it twice?
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