Heroic Thok 10m Cooldown/General Help

[Thunderbox]

Hey, we put a few hours of attempts on Heroic Thok last week before clearing normal and it didn't really go too well. We put together a rough cooldown order and were able to reach the poison door rather consistently but just got destroyed.

Our comp and a rough list of cds:

Comp
BrM Monk (Me)
Prot Pally

Resto Druid
Disc Priest
Holy Paladin**

Frost DK
Fury Warrior
Sub Rogue
Aff Lock
Balance Druid

Cooldowns
4 Stacks - Demo Banner
6 Stacks - Avert Harm
8 Stacks - Resto Tranq w/ BoP
12 Stacks - Rallying Cry
14 Stacks - Balance Tranq w/ BoP
19ish(?) Stacks - Stacking in a Power Word: Barrier into a Smoke Bomb

Sometimes we're able to hold 24ish stacks, other bops and 2 devos are weaved in there but I'm a bit ignorant of when those are going out being a tank :<

Basic strategy is two groups of 4, one in melee and one at ranged but within range for efflorescence healing, light's hammer etc. And in the fixate phase we get about 10 stacks of Blood Frenzy before it starts to get dangerous since lock gateways seem to constantly despawn (anyway to prevent this?) And making sure Thok has a mortal strike debuff so he doesn't heal for the maximum amount. We have markers for the stack points, we make it to the poison door but die to the transition going into it. The best attempt would probably be with the bats at half health or so before people starting dying.

My big concerns atm:
Is the cooldown order horribly wrong?
Should we be working on extending Phase 1 for longer? Will it be needed to kill the boss? We have Thok at or under around 70% when he phases and that's with heroism.
I feel we need to save some cooldown(s) for the poison phase, maybe the balance druid tranq since it will only get one use during the fight and shouldn't be relied on for the standard rotation?
What should be the plan for poison door? Can we just kill the bats and gtfo of that phase or will we need to learn to extend it?

Unfortunately we don't have logs (randomly weren't logging for Thok)
Sorry about the wall of text, really appreciate any help/tips.

Edited - Holy Paladin, not Holy Priest sorry.

[buffmageslol]

we just started last night and were getting the bat consistently and having wipes around 10 accel stacks w/ bats almost dead (we were having problems getting the bats placed correctly to maximize aoe dps on them). a common strategy is to 1 tank this for 10m, bm monk or prot pally are both good candidates. this gives u the flexibility to add another dps or dps w/heals or strait heals. I believe we start rolling our cooldowns at 7 stacks, followed with 2 devo aura's back to back at around 9 and 12 stacks and then 2 BoPs and intense healing and lock stones. we typically throw up a barrier and stack to phase him around 18ish, give or take, but keep healing and dps'ing and he is usually just around 60-65% when he phases at about 22-24 stacks. Our healers (priest, monk and pali) are consistently doing 200k+ hps at the time we phase him.

I think the higher u can build accel stacks the better because u will get a lot of dps here and the more damage early = less time dealing with the fire phase. For 10m the goal is 20-25 accel stacks and the goal is ~60%. Most of your 3 minutes you will use on the initial burst phase to extend it as long as possible. The 3 minutes should be coming up again ~10 stacks during the poison phase but it would be wise to try to save them for the frost phase. some guilds kill the bats and then phase thok again at around 10-14stacks while other kills the bats and continue to build stacks until about 20 again. its gonna depend on your dps/hps capabilities, but the longer the better. Anything less then 3 mins should be up once bats get out (your dps should use their 2nd pots here too for the bats). The main thing here is keeping every1 topped off when transitioning from kiting to poison and stacking again so lock stones are good and a small raid cool down might be useful so that you dont accidentally phase right away. Any1 who can dispel is useful too. Finally, I assume you're using a triangle kite pattern and 5 fixates. this is the best so dps can be in middle and get the most uptime on the boss while he is being kited around the room.

That is all i can offer for now. Were at about the same point after 20 attempts and consistently getting to ~10 stacks or so and having bats out. He is usually around 50% when were wiping and as low as 45% on a few pulls.

[kubuntu]

If yuo can sugest yuo to try 1 Tank 2 Heals 7 Dps Tactic where you go 6-7 Roars Max , if you dont have Rshaman Rdruid as healers its much easier

[Sting123]

Uhhh 3 melee omg.........that is not going to be fun for a first kill. But anyways, we lust @ pull and do about 29 stacks easy. Alot of the time we'll even have our healers stop healing and still manage to push over 30 stacks which results in an instant wipe which is quite annoying.

1.) 28-29 stacks with lust @ pull
2.) (Acid) Not a Thok DPS phase, blow up bats and get out ASAP (we usually get around 8-10 stacks and use 1 BoP on our disc priest when bats are around 25% HP)
3.) (Frost) Same as #1 however every raid CD is accelerated by 2. (Example: Barrier for you guys would be used at 17 stacks instead of 19.) In this phase we play it safe and only push around 20 stacks. By this point the boss is around 22%.
4.) (Fire) When we push into the fire phase the boss usually ranges anywhere from 15%-20%. We push about 3 stacks then push out and finish him off during the Fixate phase. The general rule is if he's under 13% you can finish him off during final fixate phase. However since you have 3 melee Thok will have to be around 6% honestly.... especially with all of the fire on the ground etc its pretty unforgiving for melee.

So for stacks its roughly: 25-29 at pull (depending on healers), acid phase 10 stacks or so, frost phase 20 stacks, fire phase between 1-7 depending on boss %.

H Thok took us about 120 pulls and that was with a pretty good comp for this fight. Not going to beat around the bush but........ 3 melee just won't work unless your pushing an insane amount of stacks in each phase. (We struggle enough as is with 2 melee as they can't really hit Thok during fixate phases, and have some issues melee swinging bats, not to mention not being able to DPS/DoT the fkin retarded Yeti) We can easily knock off 11% of Thoks HP each fixate phase (We do 10 stacks as well). In addition running 2 priests is pretty awful. The key to this fight for us was having our Hpal go Ret and having our ele go Resto. Resto shaman for 10m is absolutely broken for this fight. They literally will always have some sort of CD up on the raid + mana tide is nice as well. But between Spirit Link, Healing Tide, Ascendance, Extra HP and just OP Healing Rain R shamans absolutely destroy this fight. If there is anyway you can drop a melee DPS and grab a R Sham this fight is cake.

As far as warlock portals go we had the same problem. Just move the portals closer to the middle of the room, and they won't despawn.

Also unless I missed something I didn't see devo aura or Divine Hymm in the rotation. Devo allows your healers to free cast and not get interrupted. We have 2 paladins on the fight so we chain Devos at 13 stacks and it lasts until about the 18th acceleration. Divine hymm unfortunately will require a BoP, so I would recommend having your R Druid use his tranq during Devo aura.

Our Raid CD Order for the pull:

Lust at pull -->

2 stacks) Tree of Life + Spirit Shell
5 Stacks) Avert Harm (When he's not tanking thok or else AH falls off almost instantly)
8 stacks) Personals / HP stones if needed
10 stacks) BoP Boomkin Tranq
13 Stacks) Devo Aura 1
15 Stacks) R Druid Tranq (During Devo Aura)
16 Stacks) Devo Aura 2 (Devos are just chained not sure exactly when 2nd Devo is used)
17 Stacks) Healing Tide Totem (R Sham)
20 Stacks) Barrier (Lasts until around 25 stacks)
21 Stacks) Ascendance (R Sham) (Lasts until around 27 stacks)
27 Stacks) Spirit Link (R Sham) and gradually push out at around 28-29, make sure not to go above 30.

Our Raid Comp for the fight:

Brewmaster, Protadin
R Druid, R Sham (Ele MS, never played Resto EVER until heroic Thok and had 0 Resto gear yet destroyed the meters), Disc Priest
Ret Pal, Frost DK, Hunter, Warlock, Bumkin

To sum up: DROP AT LEAST 1 MELEE and better utilize raid CDs as you are missing several crucial ones in your rotation!!! Good luck!

[Thunderbox]

Also unless I missed something I didn't see devo aura or Divine Hymm in the rotation. Devo allows your healers to free cast and not get interrupted. We have 2 paladins on the fight so we chain Devos at 13 stacks and it lasts until about the 18th acceleration. Divine hymm unfortunately will require a BoP, so I would recommend having your R Druid use his tranq during Devo aura.

Sorry, was a typo. We run with a holy paladin instead of a holy priest (So no divine hymn). Devos are getting used, I'm just not sure when.

Appreciate all the responses so far.

[Zabuzan]

You mention that you get the boss to 70% by the end of Phase 1. That seems a little low, we were 2 tanking it last week due to lack of available raiders (3 healing) and were pushing the boss to around the low 60%s by phase on 21-24 stacks. One thing I can suggest, is even if 2 tanking you can always have one tank per phase chaining all their CDs to get up to massive stacks and huge damage. For instance, I was hitting the first P2 on around 500k DPS and over 200k HPS as a Prot Paladin, which admittedly is a little OP as I was saving Guardian and Ardent Defender for Phase 1B so only used small reductions like Barkskin and Divine Protection, with 2x Vigilance and 2xIronbark as externals alongside a well timed Holy Avenger.

We were planning to continue with the 2 tank / 3 heal strat for this reset as well (already using our Boomkin on his OS as Resto last time as well), but our Disc Priest is currently in hospital so it's looking likely we'll actually end up trying the 1 tank / 2 heal + 7 to 10 stack strat.

I'm not sure if it would help you at all, but this is the CD chain we were using:
-----------------------
Tank - Zabuzan - Prot Paladin
Tank - Vanitas - Prot Warrior
DPS - Sharak - Fury Warrior
DPS - Malfunction - Frost Deathknight
DPS - Amaryliss - Survival Hunter
DPS - Osiris - Destuction Warlock
DPS - Fanes - Elemental Shaman
Healer - Despite - Restoration Druid
Healer - Pendego - Discipline Priest
Healer - Smackbaby - Restoration Druid

Stacks of Acceleration - P1A:
1 - Zabuzan tanking
2 - Pendego Spirit Shell + Zabuzan Barkskin
3 - Fanes Ancestral Guidance
4 - Despite Ironbark (Zabuzan)
5 - Sharak RC/Demo Banner
6 - Vanitas Vigilance (Zabuzan)
7 - Smackbaby Ironbark (Zabuzan)
8 - Vanitas RC/Demo Banner
9 - Sharak Vigilance (Zabuzan)
10 - Zabuzan Holy Avenger and Avenging Wrath
11 - Zabuzan Hand of Protection -> Despite Tranquility
12
13
14 - Fanes Healing Tide
15
16 - Zabuzan Devotion Aura + Smackbaby Tranquility
17 - Zabuzan Light's Hammer
18
19 - Pendego Barrier
20
21 - Zabuzan Barkskin
22 - Despite Mushroom: Bloom
23 - Smackbaby Mushroom: Bloom
24 - Raid stack up -> BLOOD FRENZY


Stacks of Acceleration - P1B:
1 - Vanitas tanking
2 - First bat in + Despite Ironbark (Vanitas)
3 - Zabuzan Hand of Protection (Fanes) -> Fanes Ascendance + Fanes Ancestral Guidance + = Everyone use potions + Everyone kill bats
4 - Tank swap (~3 stacks) + Zabuzan Holy Avenger + Pendego Pain Suppression (Vanitas)
5 - Smackbaby Ironbark (Zabuzan) + Zabuzan Divine Protection + Zabuzan Hand of Sacrifice (Vanitas)
6 - Vanitas Vigilance (Zabuzan) + Zabuzan Light's Hammer + Raid Personal Cooldowns + Guardian of Ancient Kings
7 - Zabuzan Ardent Defender
8 - Zabuzan Barkskin
9 - Sharak Vigilance (Zabuzan)
10 - Stack up -> BLOOD FRENZY


Stacks of Acceleration - P1C:
1 - Zabuzan tanking
2 - Pendego Spirit Shell + Zabuzan Barkskin
3 - Fanes Ancestral Guidance
4 - Despite Ironbark (Zabuzan)
5 - Sharak RC/Demo Banner
6 - Zabuzan Holy Avenger and Avenging Wrath
7 - Smackbaby Ironbark (Zabuzan) + Zabuzan Divine Shield -> Cancelaura (4 stacks)
8 - Vanitas RC/Demo Banner
9 - Vanitas Vigilance (Zabuzan)
10
11 - Zabuzan Hand of Protection (Despite) -> Despite Tranquility
12
13 - Sharak Vigilance (Zabuzan)
14 - Fanes Healing Tide
15
16 - Zabuzan Devotion Aura + Smackbaby Tranquility
17 - Zabuzan Light's Hammer
18 - Tank swap (4 Ice stacks)
19 - Pendego Barrier
20 - Zabuzan Hand of Sacrifice (Vanitas)
21 - Zabuzan Barkskin
22 - Despite Mushroom: Bloom
23 - Smackbaby Mushroom: Bloom
24 - Raid stack up -> BLOOD FRENZY

Stacks of Acceleration - P1D:
1 - Zabuzan tanking
2 - Zabuzan Holy Avenger + Despite Ironbark (Zabuzan) + Fanes Ancestral Guidance
3 - Zabuzan Guardian of Ancient Kings
4 - Pendego Pain Suppresion (Zabuzan) + Zabuzan Ardent Defender
5 - Smackbaby Ironbark (Zabuzan) + Zabuzan Divine Protection
6 - Everyone Personal Cooldowns
7 - Everyone Stack -> BLOOD FRENZY

->->-> Final burn, tranq shot Jailer enrage but other than that just nuke the boss. Vanitas on Jailer, Zabuzan nuking boss. Be pro at kiting and sorting fixate targets, collect loot.

Looks easy on paper :P

Assuming we have no deaths, worst case boss health scenario at the end of each phase roughly as below:
P1A - 65%
P2A - 60%
P1B - 45%
P2B - 40%
P1C - 15%
P2C - 10%
P1D - 5%
P2D - 0%

--------------------------------------

In the last hour of last resets Thok HC raid, we finally got the CDs ironed out to the point where we were managing P1A consistently and after a fluke from much earlier on we knew we could do the same in P1C. P1B and P1D are annoying, but as we were only aiming at pushing on low stacks not a big problem provided we could burn down the adds quickly enough.

Anyway, as I said, this reset our Disc Priest is in a bad way in hospital, so going to be looking at other options for this fight this reset. Progressing from scratch with a new strat and comp ftl!

[Riemu2k3]

Hey Guys,

we had our first 15 Tries on Thok last week. Tonights our next shot and I wanted to get your input on our CD rotation and our healing.
Were going with 1 Tank (Pally) and 4 Healers (Pally, Druid, Shaman, Disc Priest). DPS are Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Mage, Hunter.

Lust at Pull, P1 gets Thok to about 65%, P2 starts with about 58% - DPS should be fine.
We kite him to about 15 Stacks.

Normal + Frost:

3 - Tree of Life + Spirit Shell
7 - Demo Banner + Vigilance on Tank + Healing Tide
10 - Bubble Paladin with CDs
13 - Devo 1 + Tranq
16 - Devo 2
18 - BoP Shaman + Ascendance/Guidance
20 - Personal CDs + Light's Hammer
23 - Barrier + Smokebomb + Sacrifice/Ironbark on Tank
28-29 - Phaseout

Green + Fire:

3 - Tree of Life + Spirit Shell
4 - Demo Banner + Vigilance on Tank + BoP Disc Priest
6 - Bubble Paladin with CDs
8 - Light's Hammer + Rallying Cry
11 - Personal CDs + Spirit Link
12-14 - Phaseout


Anything in there to improve?

Also, the Disc Priest and the Shaman are both "Offspecc Healers" with not ideal gearing. They both don't really know how to heal Thok / deliver the best output. At least they didn't know last week when we tried him. So I'm hoping you could go over our logs and give us some pointers.

Here are our 2 best tries while running 4 Healers:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9137&e=9368 (29 Stacks Phaseout)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8611&e=8823 (18 Stacks Phaseout)

Thanks alot!

[Deleted]

First basic of all basics: do not 4 heal thok.
If you want to drop one tank, pick up a DPS, not a healer. It's not really necessery since tank can pull almost same damage as a DPS, even while 2 tanking it. On our kill average dmg of two tanks was almost equal to average dmg of 5 dps.
Remember that thok heals himself for 8% 3 times, so he has around 800m hp, not 650. (which can be slicly reduced by mortal wound debuf f.e. by Widow Venom skill)
When we killed him (2 Tanks 5 DPS, 3Healers) the stack we did looked like: 26P1- 15Kiting - 26 P2 - 15 Kiting -24P3 - 15Kiting - 4 P4 - few kiting stacks. Fight lasted 9:39 so imagine how would it look like for urs 4 healers strategy...
Average HPS of your 3 Healers should be around 270-320HPS at the end of P1. If its not, they're underperforming.
Bloodlust/Heroism is useless at pull. Save it for P2 when bats go down. It strongly helps to burn them down ASAP and help healers to keep raid up before strong cooldowns are ready to go.
Drop one "offspec healer". Shaman destroys Disco in pure HPS/cooldowns but Disco is quite useful for Acid Phase Mass Dispel casts. DPS Shaman helps a lot in CD rotation (Totem, Ancestral Guidance, Healing Rain) and BOPed elemental can rape bats really fast. For Acid Phase it's more important to have dispel on cooldown, than casting healing spells.

If you want to drop a Disco and save Resto Shaman:
Glyphs: Water Shield (endless mana), Riptide, Healing Stream Totem.
Talents: AG, Rushing Streams, Primal Elementalist.
Pick as many Haste as u can for more HR/Riptide ticks. Drop as much spirit/mastery as u can.
Cast unleashed HR on CD between screeches. Blanket whole raid with riptide. Healing Stream on CD. (u can pick Call of Elements to have 2 Healing streams in a row). Pop up one of your elemental (with empower/reinforce) when screeches starts go one by one. Ask for BoP when your Ascendence is wanted to go to let u freely drop Healing Rain and chain-cast chain heal. Set up Healing Tide for the most difficult part of CD rotation that you have found. For this fight its the strongest CD of all.

Each guild has to set his own CD rotation because it depends even on DPS/Tank comp. General rules are:
1 You should stack up around 20-22 stacks so save ur "stacked cds" (like barrier, smoke bomb, spirit link) for this moment.
2 Use every other Healer CDS for 8-20 especially when u can chain Devo Auras-BOPs.
3 Use ur DPS/Tank cooldowns and "weaker" healing CDS for 5-8 stacks part. Don't pop anything special before 5 stacks.

[Deleted]

We dont even start the cooldown rotation until 6th stack.
But most important thing is to not aim for some magic number of either acceleration or blood frenzy...

See enrage...until you have, no stacks matter. You can kill it doing 10/14/10/14 etc. The fight is surprisingly easy when you dont try to push it all crazy.
If you reach enrage, its easiest fix ever... Add stacks, and you kill it within 2-3 pulls.

Edit. Missed that you have 3 melee, you probably gonna have todo high acceleration as you cant dps much during high blood frenzy.
But my point above stands, see enrage, add stacks. Good luck

[arnachros]

Hello Everybody,

We are struggling to kill Thok. Fight is not easy ofcourse but it should not be that timing-dependent. Our healers are not really get used to fight first of all. They still getting interrupts-spell locks. But we should not enter 2nd phase at 2nd shout.. There is something wrong and we need help for raid composition and cooldown rotation suggestions.

Our team size is really small like 13 people raiding at all. Here are our sources:
Tanks : Prot Pally & Guardian Druid
Healers : Holy Pally & Disc Priest
DPS : DK - Mage - Warlock - BalanceDruid - Hunter - Warrior - WW Monk - Shadow Pri
Hybrid : Shaman can play both resto and elem.

Our raid composition depend online peoples and we had a lot of AFK's recently. What i seek here is answer of our best raid setup. Focusing on 14-10-14-10:

A: ) 1.Is it possible to 2 heal it with Holy Pally & Disc Priest ?
2.While 2 healing it, 1 tank is enough ?
3.What shall be best DPS composition based on the story for 1 tank and 3 heals ?

B: ) 1.It seemed impossible to get after 22+ stacks while 3 healing(pri-shammy-pally) without dead. People are keep dying after 10 stacks or so. Death can be happen just after BOP's finish and devo's get up.

I haven't done dmg taken-healing done calculation yet but i need to know possiblilty of (14-10-14-10) +-2 tactic for our best raid setup. Item levels are almost 570 on all of us. Combatlog is my job but since we were trying one tank, i could not enter raid so combatlog source is not enough.

[Deleted]

We 2-heal it with pal/disci and only one tank : prot pal.

We do something like :

our Dpriest uses his spirit shell in the beginning of the fight
4th : smoke bomb & devotion & moonkin tranq
when devotion ends, bubble from Dpriest, when it ends, we just stack up (~11-14 stacks in p1)

P2 : kiting until 12 stacks (from the middle near poison cage, poison cage => frost cage, frost cage => fire cage then intrance of the room)

P1 (frost) : we tank it wherever he is, dodge the yeti, use the 2nd devo auro and stack up when it ends. (7-8 stacks)

P2: we kill the yeti and kite thok like in the 1st p2 (mid=>green=>blue=>red=>intrance)

P1 (poison) : all cd's are up, thus we do exactly like the very first P1 and we don't forget to put hand of prot on our warlock, he kills the bats alone (well, other dps can cleave, but that's mainly his job), we did only 6 acceleration's stacks then we killed him during kite phase.

Our comp was :
prot pal, holy pal, disc priest, ww monk (our maintank, but he had to respec), rogue, warrior, moonkin x2, mage, warlock.

You can see our kill here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMNv0jCKN6o
And we had no problem to kill it again this week.

Your comp is similar to our, (same tank/healers), you have only one moonkin but you have a shadow priest who can use his cd to heal (vampiric embrace? dunno the name), you got the warlock for the bats, you should be fine (and more than that if you use your elesham).

[arnachros]

Thank you for quick reply thanje.

I will consider every single detail that you mention on your post this week's raid. I am watching your video also. I'll update my post after tries or kill hopefully.

Regards.

[Zabuzan]

With regards to the 4 heal is bad thing, totally disagree.

We didn't have the available DPS to 3 heal it, without having excessive melee.

1 tank, 5 DPS, 4 heal, the 4th healer just smoothes out bumps and whilst it is a bit snipey, extra CDs and dispels make P1B with the poison debuff and bats a breeze.

We even messed up phase 1 and still had way more than enough DPS to kill the boss... that was also without insanely long kiting phases.

If you have a good DPS alternative with raid CDs, there is no need to 4 heal, but it's not a disadvantage to do so either imo, as long as your DPS are vaguely decent.

On our kill:
P1A - 24 stacks (which was crap because we can do 30 with 3 healers lol...), boss at 60%
P2A - 9 stacks
P1B - 10 stacks
P2B - 9 stacks, boss sub 50% post eat
P1C - 20 stacks (also crap, but were ahead on DPS so didn't bother risking any gibs and pushed it)
P2C - 9 stacks, boss at 25% ish post eat
P1D - 5 stacks, boss 10-15% for the final kite, happy days.

That was on a bad pull as well, the previous pull with better CD usage, we had Thok down at sub 40% going into P1C, then someone moved badly and caused a Blood Frenzy on about 4 stacks lol.

Dropping a tank for a DPS or healer is the way to go.. Prot Paladins in particular are OP for this - I'm able to solo from 15 stacks onwards until the 31st stack wipe with the rest of the raid dead (tested it multiple times during early wipes haha :P). I even managed to do 33 stacks with Ardent Defender and Cloak Proc, then bubbled for 36! If you can push it to the 30 stack mark with a Prot Paladin solo tanking and they pop Execution Sentence when Vengeance is just about capped before the first Phase 2, should be rocking 600k DPS and it makes 4 healing super easy.

Even if you mess up and transition on lower stacks, the DPS requirement for Thok isn't that tight if executed correctly, with plenty of ranged DPS going on during the kite phase. We even killed the yeti to avoid people being scrubs and dying to him :P

[Kioga]

So our 10m has finally made it to Thok and i would like the community's input on our setup. Between an equally geared Prot Warr and a Bear tank (me) they decided I should solo tank with a holy pally, Dpriest, and MW Monk. Both tanks have an equally geared melee OS, but I tend to do higher damage than my co-tank so they figd I would be a better choice for soloing it. Would the Warr be better?

Our best attempt got Thok to 35% by starting at the frost door, going to 20 stacks, then phasing and moving on to the fire door. Even with 3 healers, my Legendary Cloak procs 60% of the time to save my ass. IS that a result of me tanking, our healer setup, or healing/tank CD rotation?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cttlul2rd3ezfo1k/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/wkenv6snjpcyg72c/