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  1. #181
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    You will feel the "outgearing factor" alot more so on siege and klaxxi than on garrosh trust me.
    HGarrosh on farm is a very boring 1-3shot caliber type of a joke boss. But on progress its pretty badass; a good check for determination + resiliance of said raid (especially this late into tier) more so than any retardcheck/gearcheck people claim it out to be.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-11-02 at 02:42 PM.
    WoW = Main: Ret Alt(s): War

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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    You will feel the "outgearing factor" alot more so on siege and klaxxi than on garrosh trust me.
    HGarrosh on farm is a very boring 1-3shot caliber type of a joke boss. But on progress its pretty badass; a good check for determination + resiliance of said raid (especially this late into tier) more so than any retardcheck/gearcheck people claim it out to be.
    Unless you're a healer. Then H-Garrosh progression becomes a snooze fest too.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    At least two guilds extend

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    I know you are busy blindly lashing out at US guilds, but there are quite a few strong 3 day guilds that play/finish around that level. Killing stuff in very low pull counts, with a focus on efficiency, does hold the respect of some people . Lets me personally still raid while working full time and going to graduate school. Considering you already mocked low hour/day guilds, I am sure you don't care. Anyway, have a nice one!
    I heard if you can't do it in 12 hours, don't do it...

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Incarnate View Post
    I heard if you can't do it in 12 hours, don't do it...
    Who said that? I was quoting someone who mocked trying bringing up lower hours/days, and US guilds in general.

    I just find that notion odd, as if killing stuff in almost half the time/pulls has no value.
    Resto Druid - Temerity - 17/17M @ 3 days / Week

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    If 70 pulls is a ton, how did you endure Lei Shen progress?
    By killing it with many less than others (speaking only for Temerity). For instance, I see you got Siege in 158, we got it in 74.
    Resto Druid - Temerity - 17/17M @ 3 days / Week

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    This thread is the bomb.

    I am curious though, what happens if tomorrow they add a bypass immunity flag on Bloodletting
    Pure panic mode

    Exploiting paragons is a common thing apparently in the US

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-gt-Exploiting

  7. #187
    I am Murloc! Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smile6789 View Post
    you can outgear it though, p3 with 1 empowered whirling is fun

    I am honestly surprised with all that research Tyranny claimed to do, you decide to extend to kill Paragons...good luck on Garrosh with 2+ less weeks of gear.
    Our average iLevel as a raid is nearly identical to guilds that have killed it, and of the dps checks on the fight we've seen, we're already beating them. Soooo.... yeah. Gear is not holding us back from anything. Everything we get from this point forward is gravy. We're not going to extend again though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basmothh View Post
    Early raid wipes are due to people dying to Aim or Rapid Fire, which your raid bypassed this experience.
    I'm not going to go into specifics, but we experienced this. We, in no way shape or form, bypassed it.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2013-11-02 at 05:24 PM.

  8. #188
    Field Marshal Percolator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuttle View Post
    Pure panic mode

    Exploiting paragons is a common thing apparently in the US

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-gt-Exploiting
    Very disappointing if you ask me, it's a shame guilds have to resort to exploits to be able to kill bosses and achieve a higher rank.

  9. #189
    lets not go too much into personal/guild attacks, we do want to keep this thread alive!

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    Who said that? I was quoting someone who mocked trying bringing up lower hours/days, and US guilds in general.

    I just find that notion odd, as if killing stuff in almost half the time/pulls has no value.
    You misinterpreted my intentions, that was the "nod" from one 12-hour to another. I think we, the 12-hour crowd, do is amazing. That the primary reason LA has committed to it even while under pressure to increase to 16 or 20 hours a week. Certainly we could likely increase our ranking, but we focus on preparedness, management, and personal responsibility on our raiders. It's clear that many guilds just jam their face against a boss until it falls over while we have to maximize on the limited attempts we get each week.

    By no means does the preceding indicate that we, LA, are a special snowflake nor do I imply that we're better than anyone.

  11. #191
    I am Murloc! Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percolator View Post
    Very disappointing if you ask me, it's a shame guilds have to resort to exploits to be able to kill bosses and achieve a higher rank.
    LoSing the Iyyokk beam was much more legitimate as an argument for an exploit.

    HoPing the tank is an extremely weak one, especially, as I said, there is another way to deal with the Bloodlettings that doesn't need HoP, that gets the same result. Hisek still dies first anyway you cut it. Again, it's not like youre' HoPing for 13 minutes. You're HoPing till Korven dies, and then the tank uses his buff. And again, it's not like it's some weird or obscure world buff. It's something every paladin has on their bar somewhere.

    Very weak case made by folks with sour grapes.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    LoSing the Iyyokk beam was much more legitimate as an argument for an exploit.

    HoPing the tank is an extremely weak one, especially, as I said, there is another way to deal with the Bloodlettings that doesn't need HoP, that gets the same result. Hisek still dies first anyway you cut it. Again, it's not like youre' HoPing for 13 minutes. You're HoPing till Korven dies, and then the tank uses his buff. And again, it's not like it's some weird or obscure world buff. It's something every paladin has on their bar somewhere.

    Very weak case made by folks with sour grapes.
    Don't think many are calling it an exploit, at least the people you have been arguing with the most.

    In general people have been saying it is much easier, and a bit cheesy, which it is. Carry on though
    Resto Druid - Temerity - 17/17M @ 3 days / Week

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by srm02 View Post
    lets not go too much into personal/guild attacks, we do want to keep this thread alive!
    Please keep this thread alive so we can all laugh when the guilds that exploited get banned and have their loot / achievement removed.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Our average iLevel as a raid is nearly identical to guilds that have killed it, and of the dps checks on the fight we've seen, we're already beating them. Soooo.... yeah. Gear is not holding us back from anything. Everything we get from this point forward is gravy. We're not going to extend again though.

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    I'm not going to go into specifics, but we experienced this. We, in no way shape or form, bypassed it.
    the only dps check that matters on Garrosh is p3, and if you have already beaten it, I expect a kill by the end of this week

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    LoSing the Iyyokk beam was much more legitimate as an argument for an exploit.

    HoPing the tank is an extremely weak one, especially, as I said, there is another way to deal with the Bloodlettings that doesn't need HoP, that gets the same result. Hisek still dies first anyway you cut it. Again, it's not like youre' HoPing for 13 minutes. You're HoPing till Korven dies, and then the tank uses his buff. And again, it's not like it's some weird or obscure world buff. It's something every paladin has on their bar somewhere.

    Very weak case made by folks with sour grapes.
    You know, I would actually congratulate you on killing it that way if you were the ones who came up with the tactic. That certainly takes some ingenuity.

    I couldn't care about your guild jumping ranks, seeing as I've already killed Garrosh, but it's rather pathetic that you can't just own up to the fact that you cheesed the encounter to do so.

    <3

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    LoSing the Iyyokk beam was much more legitimate as an argument for an exploit.
    For like the 10th billionth time, there was no LoSing involved-the ability was just out rangeable meaning that if no one was within 60 yards you wouldn't get the beams.

    The HoP strat seems as legitimate to me as killing the boss normally. I really don't get the pitchfork-waving attitude that many raiding guilds get when their competitors try out something different that they didn't necessarily think of. We should be encouraging out-of-the-box thinking and healthy competition, not trying to diminish it.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Basmothh View Post
    You know, I would actually congratulate you on killing it that way if you were the ones who came up with the tactic. That certainly takes some ingenuity.

    I couldn't care about your guild jumping ranks, seeing as I've already killed Garrosh, but it's rather pathetic that you can't just own up to the fact that you cheesed the encounter to do so.

    <3
    Then stop caring? By continuing to post here, you are kinda showing that you still care deeply.
    Mew!

  18. #198
    I am Murloc! Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    Don't think many are calling it an exploit, at least the people you have been arguing with the most.

    In general people have been saying it is much easier, and a bit cheesy, which it is. Carry on though
    Oh of course. It's supposed to be easier. At what point did a strat become a test of manliness. Is that where we are now? I'm not saying you're saying this, but like that's the weird side of this argument "any guild that doesn't leave Hisek up are pussies!". That's essentially what the sour grapes argument boils down to. Well again, how many guilds do Dark Shaman tanked together? Or let axes spawn on Nazgrim? Or let Thok get to the third door? Or do the Method strat for Siegecrafter? Or what about all the "manly strats" you could do last tier. Raise your hand if you tanked Iron Qon in the middle of his room where you do the first Quiellen. Or how about the mother of them all, who here used Medium Robots on Dark Animus 25H? Clearly intended to created time. How many folks killed Green Head on Magaera, or kited the bats on Tortos (until they changed hunters and incidentally broke this). Or lets go to the mother of them all: how many folks didn't have a DPS warrior taunt take the first port on Sha of Fear 25H and "locked" out that platform, thus significantly lowering the required DPS threshold of the entire fight?

    Folks were lazy about a strat. Assumed the small sample of high profile guilds they checked out was the only way to do it, and got caught surprised by a superior strat. That's really all this is. Any strat that kills Hisek first is by definition superior. I know for a fact, judging by conversations I've had with various folks in the last day, this is the strat most guilds working on it are shifting to, which is what I expected. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we see further evolved versions of it next week. To me, that's exciting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amiyeable View Post
    For like the 10th billionth time, there was no LoSing involved-the ability was just out rangeable meaning that if no one was within 60 yards you wouldn't get the beams.

    The HoP strat seems as legitimate to me as killing the boss normally. I really don't get the pitchfork-waving attitude that many raiding guilds get when their competitors try out something different that they didn't necessarily think of. We should be encouraging out-of-the-box thinking and healthy competition, not trying to diminish it.
    You're right I'm sorry. It was range. I forgot. My apologies. I actually tried in in Flex once a few weeks ago before we killed Siegecrafter but couldn't get it to work.

    And here here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smile6789 View Post
    the only dps check that matters on Garrosh is p3, and if you have already beaten it, I expect a kill by the end of this week
    Uhhhh, we're not quite THERE close yet. Still have some more work to do, lol. I wish. Hopefully Sunday. That's actually very encouraging to know actually though. That's the kinda metric I like.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by smile6789 View Post
    Here is what is going to happen,
    Blizz will probably fix bop,
    exploiting guilds will either have to extend or reprogress
    those guilds lose rank because Garrosh is nothing but a gear check and extending for 1-2 weeks is just shooting yourself in the foot.
    We killed Skeer first. We used Divine Shield for the second Bloodletting. All this fix will do for us is that we'll have to cc the second bloodletting adds.

    Big whoop.

    Such a hotfix will change almost nothing for the encounter on 10m Heroic.
    Last edited by Snuzzfizzle; 2013-11-02 at 05:54 PM.

  20. #200
    I am Murloc! Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basmothh View Post
    You know, I would actually congratulate you on killing it that way if you were the ones who came up with the tactic. That certainly takes some ingenuity.

    I couldn't care about your guild jumping ranks, seeing as I've already killed Garrosh, but it's rather pathetic that you can't just own up to the fact that you cheesed the encounter to do so.

    <3
    My problem with this entire debate is it defines down "cheesing" to a level that is really hard to justify. Like if the strat involved something like getting skeer on a rogue and a rogue kitting the boss or something ridiculous (you see what I'm getting at?), I could see that as cheesing. But instead the strat has a tank doing a tank job, being cast with an ability every paladin has that is used on the tank, on many fights, until the tank gets a buff from a dead boss designed for tank use. How is that cheesing?

    Is doing Hisek later and Skeer first a test of maniliness or something? Does that alone make it "not cheese?" Well then as I said, let's apply that metric Siegecrafter. Or Thok. Or Dark Shaman. Or Nazgrim. Here I thought looking at legitimate strats to reduce the difficult parts of any encounter to a level where they are less dangerous thus making attempts more successful was a major part of World of Warcraft raiding. Boy, I'd like to create a time machine and tell my younger self that using Tri-Force on Heroic Ragnaros 25 was cheesy too. After all... not intended either. We cheesed the mechanics right?

    Thus the last redoubt of the "cheese" argument is, it's cheese unless everyone does it. Which as I said, had a typical second generation strat generating guild like Envy come up with it, just as the second gen Siegecrafter strat came about, everyone would be using it. But no, instead some obscure Russian guild did, and thus flew under everyone's radar. Silly, silly argument.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2013-11-02 at 06:08 PM.

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