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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    No its pretty big difference there. If you know the history of the pvp seasons and what changes were made or not made you'd see the difference in mop and past expansions on that.
    While no one is happy that takes so long to tone down a class that is obviously too powerful, there have been far more changes that have benefitted PvP. This expansion may be the onle one that I don't feel obligated to do PvE in order to be successful in PvP. That alone is huge. Holinka is also making an effort to make PvP more accessible, increasing the PvP playerbase giving the arena brackets more depth. Hell, maybe if we get enough people PvPing, the rest of the dev team will be more inclined to take PvP balance into consideration when making PvE changes.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    I fail to see what he has done that has made the game worse. Balance wise the game is probably in the best state it's ever been. Last season too. If you ignore S11 Stampede and TfB Warriors, this expansion is by far the most balanced expansion yet.
    I'm pretty inclined to agree here, actually. All the classes are doing well in arenas right now, and just about everything is viable. All 5 healers are strong, and all the DPS classes are viable as well. That alone is better balance then we've had in a very very long time.

    The main problems with PvP right now is all the instant CC, or perhaps it's the lack of ways out of CC. I mean, if you had 2 PvP trinkets instead of 1 to break CC, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But anyway, I digress. The point is that the things that are broken with PvP right now can't be fixed by one person. It'll require both the PvP and PvE designers to work together, because you need to remove CC from PvP but ensure that in PvE the CC isn't needed.

    But honestly, this whole expansion has been pretty good from a PvP perspective.

  3. #43
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    No its pretty big difference there. If you know the history of the pvp seasons and what changes were made or not made you'd see the difference in mop and past expansions on that.
    Because in the other expacs everything was quickly fixed and resolved, it also had magic unicorns and everyone have clean white teeth!

    How long was mana drain possible? How long were dks op in arena? How long did it take them to nerf pve rogues? How long did it take elemental and enhancement shamans to become viable? How long did it take to nerf the unkillable feral druids? I know the pvp history, and it is pretty much the same, one class is a bit stronger than the rest, or better at certain things. This has not changed in wow, and will never change. This is what you will get from an imperfect balance, people would not want a true balance anyways.

    The thing that has changed is we now have someone that is just dedicated to pvp, like pve is(albeit not as much). With that we can ask him certain things, and he can answer. We can bring our concerns to him. How is this worst than what we had?

    Though I would like to apologize, this is very much offtopic.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #44
    Pit Lord Gerbert the's Avatar
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    I really wish they'd just fire Jeremy already.
    "【A Chinese viewpoint on the new version:MOP】
    since we have lived in a world filled with magic and beast and lots of culture,so it is reasonable to let all kinds of culture come into World of Warcraft
    Orc:black people Jazz
    Gorblin:Israel Jews (No offensive,Gorblins are good at making money,that's ture in my eyes)"

  5. #45
    do-it-yourself pvp balance kit
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Because in the other expacs everything was quickly fixed and resolved, it also had magic unicorns and everyone have clean white teeth!

    How long was mana drain possible? How long were dks op in arena? How long did it take them to nerf pve rogues? How long did it take elemental and enhancement shamans to become viable? How long did it take to nerf the unkillable feral druids? I know the pvp history, and it is pretty much the same, one class is a bit stronger than the rest, or better at certain things. This has not changed in wow, and will never change. This is what you will get from an imperfect balance, people would not want a true balance anyways.
    So I see you missed the point all together and went off on some rant. I never said anything about time frames I talked about causes. Let give you an example cata, S9 lots of broken op things s10 thought by most as a balanced season no new op classes made. S11 Rogues op but got zero changes from s10 pve gear and scaling did that.

    Now compare that with mop. S12 all kinds of broken things, s13 nerfed some broken things and buffed up the new op classes 5.2 rogues, 5.3 ele, enh, ret, healing priests, 5.4 warriors and mages buffed up to be overpowered. And for some reason hunters stayed op from 5.0-5.3 lol.

    Now if you can't tell the difference in those 2 are or what I'm talking about I don't think we have anything more to say to one another.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    Completely separate pvp and pve
    Oh sweet jesus yes.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
    Stephen Fry

  8. #48

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Molestron View Post
    In-game Oqueue ?
    This would be awesome. I'm guessing it's not the content though, because when it arrives, I'd assume it would be both pve/pvp....or I could be wrong (pvp having way less instances than pve). But yeah, this feature would really encourage pvping due the easiness of finding pre-mades and partners for arenas.

  10. #50
    Pit Lord Knadra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukesh View Post
    solo RBG queueing!
    That defeats the whole purpose of why RBGs were put into the game

  11. #51
    blizz version of oqueue
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    That defeats the whole purpose of why RBGs were put into the game
    You mean like LFR killed the whole purpose of why raids were put in the game ?

  13. #53
    I don't follow pvp at all... but I do know that the lead PvP designer can do NOTHING about class balance. Classes are balanced primarily in PvE and secondarily in PvP. If they could somehow separate PvP and PvE we would no longer have this issue. The PvP guys could focus on their class balance and the PvE guys could do theirs.

    ^ Father and son. Winning.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't follow pvp at all... but I do know that the lead PvP designer can do NOTHING about class balance. Classes are balanced primarily in PvE and secondarily in PvP. If they could somehow separate PvP and PvE we would no longer have this issue. The PvP guys could focus on their class balance and the PvE guys could do theirs.
    Depends on the separation. If that means pvp-ers will get separate servers and only have access to instanced pvp, then I'll be gone faster than a fat guy from a gym.

  15. #55
    Gonna laugh my ass off when it's skirmishes being reintroduced into the game.

    Something nobody wanted removed in the first place, but the devs claimed "wargames were more popular with players" and "skirmishes weren't used much."

    Two boldfaced lies.

    Since their little wargame bullshit failed, they'll bring back the feature players actually enjoyed and package it up as something "new".

    Also hilarious he called us "fans". No, we're not your fucking fans. You're not a rock band or movie star. You make video games. We're paying customers who want a good gaming experience for our dollar.
    Last edited by Coldhearth; 2013-11-03 at 10:36 AM.

  16. #56
    I really want to know what "viable" when people use it in this thread.

    Viable for random battlegrounds?
    Or for a gladiator push that doesn't involve foul or dirty play?

    -- Signature by /the/ Crazytaco --

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Danmakus View Post

    fudge....
    You rang sir? :-P

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Holinka came into the job when MoP was already in place, meaning he couldn't change any of the major mechanics that were already there. He also joined when BM Hunters were 1shotting with pets and Warriors had 5 stack TfB and gag order.

    Since then, he has increased resilience, increased battle fatigue (thus slowing down the pace of PvP), brought in conquest catch-up, brought in cross-realm arenas, pushed for hundreds of PVP related balance tweaks and generally made PVP more enjoyable.

    There is still a lot of work to be done, but Holinka is doing a fantastic job at the moment. He is also promoting a lot of PvP tournaments.
    Thank god you see pvp for what it has become. Its great right now. I realize at very high levels only the best specs and comps are being used but honestly under 2k everything is viable.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by tauntor View Post
    Thank god you see pvp for what it has become. Its great right now. I realize at very high levels only the best specs and comps are being used but honestly under 2k everything is viable.
    Under 2k or over, anything warrior/x/healer is viable. This is truly the most balanced expansion.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    So nothing sticks out in your mind about 5.2 5.3 or 5.4 huh this is where I see you don't really play this game.

    Every patch has added some new broken overpowered class caused by the changes they made for pvp. Or for 5.4 the same one as s12....

    This has been the worst expansion for balance yet.
    This this shows how little you played if you think this expansion is less balanced than any other. When you compare the two this one is exceptionally balanced.

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