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  1. #1

    So its apparent that alliance loses most of the BGs

    I got a few alliance toons that i like to play and since they lose most games played, would i be able to gear up faster doing random bgs or specific bgs doing IoC and AV. Since random BG option offers more honor it seems good but if alliance lose alot then what way is really the best?
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  2. #2
    Some other ways to get honor are to farm the rares at domination point a krasarang wilds, do wintergrasp and tol barad every time, and even spam heroic dungeons and convert justice to honor.

    Grab the addon oQueue and look for premade BG groups. A premade of 5 people that work together can turn the tide in almost any BG.

  3. #3
    Wait till its the AV days and grind grind grind. Horde never wins AV.

  4. #4
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    How is it apparent that Alliance loses more than Horde?

    You have data to prove it? And I am not talking about anecdotal evidence from your personal experience. Because you might just have a very bad streak.
    That is what my experience tells me anyhow. I have bad streaks and I have good streaks. Sometimes I can shake them off, sometimes I don't.
    I've noticed that IF I am losing a 3 or 4 bgs in a row, that it's best to simply stop and wait a few hours. Apparently you getting grouped with the same people on your, and on the other side. which leads likely to the same result over and over again.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Ghoulthaz's Avatar
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    From my understanding the AV BG is the only BG that directly favours one faction over the other. That faction is the alliance, and the rest of the BG's are fair game.

  6. #6
    im pretty sure if youre in the hakkar battlegroup whatever that may be alliance win ioc 99% of the time.. this whole xpac Ive won ioc once

  7. #7
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Battlegroups are not relevant for random bgs anymore, for some time.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    So its apparent that alliance loses most of the BGs
    Prove it.
    For some reason, I don't think you can.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulthaz View Post
    From my understanding the AV BG is the only BG that directly favours one faction over the other. That faction is the alliance, and the rest of the BG's are fair game.
    Nah, IoC also favors Alliance, to a lesser degree. Alliance players tell me that SSM favors Horde, but to be honest I have done too few of them to see what that imbalance is, design wise.

  10. #10
    You don't even need numbers to prove alliance loses more in a random BG. Only a fool would think otherwise.

  11. #11
    This is data taken from every player using oQueue. What you want to look at are the bars, which are farther to the left the more alliance wins, and farther to the right the more horde wins. If you are alliance I suggest you start single queuing for AV and Isle of Conquest.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    You don't even need numbers to prove alliance loses more in a random BG. Only a fool would think otherwise.
    True, but it swings back and forth. A year ago Alliance was winning basically everything. The tides always turn heavily in favor of one faction or the other, for some reason, rather than just being an even split.

  13. #13
    You queue av as alliance. horde bots that one typically.

  14. #14
    I thought Blizzard releases these statistics and last time they did it was 51%:49%.....

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    I thought Blizzard releases these statistics and last time they did it was 51%:49%.....
    That's because those statistics cover all time, rather than recent trends. If you play long enough, the factions will reverse who's winning and losing. Right now, Horde seems to win more (except AV and IoC,) but a year ago, Alliance was winning basically everything. Over time though, it'll always more or less balance out (again, except for AV and IoC.)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    How is it apparent that Alliance loses more than Horde?

    You have data to prove it? And I am not talking about anecdotal evidence from your personal experience. Because you might just have a very bad streak.
    That is what my experience tells me anyhow. I have bad streaks and I have good streaks. Sometimes I can shake them off, sometimes I don't.
    I've noticed that IF I am losing a 3 or 4 bgs in a row, that it's best to simply stop and wait a few hours. Apparently you getting grouped with the same people on your, and on the other side. which leads likely to the same result over and over again.
    He doesn't have to prove shit to you, his experience is the only one that matters, since it's happening to him and not you.

    I have four toons, two on a PVE server (Baelgun) and another on a PVP server (Laughing Skull) and I can say we lose everything except AV/IoC and sometimes even Strand. It's not "a bad streak" as I have PVP'd most of my WoW career and given any discrepancies in these "Stats" my Achievement interface is giving me, I've played a total of 1010 battlegrounds and only won 532 of them, I'm sure it's not counting those before the Stats/Achievement tab was added. That's barely over 50/50 which doesn't seem so bad, unless you figure in that I've been playing since the tail end of Vanilla and most of those wins are AV.

  17. #17
    I don't pvp much, but the last 3 characters I've gotten my legendary chain from on horde mal'ganis US, I've had to go through at least a few games on each bg.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    How is it apparent that Alliance loses more than Horde?

    You have data to prove it? And I am not talking about anecdotal evidence from your personal experience. Because you might just have a very bad streak.
    9 yrs. 3040 AV games. Won 1770.

    58% Alliance win rate in AV.

    I wouldn't call that "Extremely favorable" or I must have ONE HELL of a bad streak.....


    On a side note I notice Horde winning more and more in AV in my Battlegroup. They've finally figured out how to leave 2 groups at RH to harass the 3-4 DK/Pallys that run there and mad dash a Full Group to Aid Station to take control. Meanwhile we dont have ANYONE staying to defend so they get a huge jump in having the Bunkers/Aid station timing down while we still fighting for RH Control
    Last edited by Locruid; 2013-10-27 at 09:02 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    9 yrs. 3040 AV games. Won 1770.

    58% Alliance win rate in AV.

    I wouldn't call that "Extremely favorable" or I must have ONE HELL of a bad streak.....


    On a side note I notice Horde winning more and more in AV in my Battlegroup. They've finally figured out how to leave 2 groups at RH to harass the 3-4 DK/Pallys that run there and mad dash a Full Group to Aid Station to take control. Meanwhile we dont have ANYONE staying to defend so they get a huge jump in having the Bunkers/Aid station timing down while we still fighting for RH Control
    1. The old AV model wasn't so imbalanced. It's only since it's become a non-PvP race to the end.

    2. Battlegroups aren't really a thing anymore. And yes, Horde can win. It simply takes more effort than for Alliance, so most don't bother.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    How is it apparent that Alliance loses more than Horde?

    You have data to prove it? And I am not talking about anecdotal evidence from your personal experience.
    Here's data from armory analysis. It's not SUPER old, but it isn't modern exactly:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...p-of-the-Month

    So from this we know with numbers what we have ALWAYS known: Horde win more BGs. Note, however, that...

    1)- This was from before we saw some changes to IOC. Back then, a single sub rogue could solo 1.5 glaives, and alliance have always had a heavy docks strat. So when this was made, horde one most IOC, and I would be SHOCKED to see if that is the case today.
    2)- This was also before the gear-normalized AV hit. I wouldn't be surprised if this one ally-favoring BG at the time of the study wasn't shifted a bit more today.
    3)- The percentages aren't ludicrous. Overall, horde have a 54% win rate, which basically is a 10% difference between the two.


    But, again, this was a little while ago, and it doesn't have the Silvershard numbers (Silvershard is, I'm sure, shockingly horde biased- or at least, it was before they addressed the mine cart spawn, and likely still is a little).


    Importantly though- even though it is anecdotal, I remain convinced that the effect is pretty large, and likely skewed by premades. Aka, if you are in a premade, you will expect wins much more often, and if you are NOT in a premade, you face a reasonable chance of facing one. I currently have been queueing BGs on three characters:

    1)- On my resto druid, I lose more than I win. I can sometimes meaningfully make a large difference if I get a flag carry BG, but if it something like AB, my loss ratio is high. If I log on with the intent of winning a single game then stopping, Vitis will often have to play four games, and relatively rarely gets away with only 1. I remember logging on and winning immediately, and I also remember running out of time and logging off without a victory.

    2)- On my mage alt, who I am worst at, I lose almost everything except for AV and IoC. While I am a good player and much worse on my mage, it strikes me as unlikely that this play difference of one player (and I'm not trash on my mage by BG standards- I do get sheeps up, and can solo average and below players). I frequently have to queue a BUNCH of times to get a single win, and often resort to asking a guildy to come along so I can get my win.

    3)- On my rogue main, I win more than I lose. It is still close, but the smaller BGs and ofc the ally two (AV and IoC) seem to be the ones that are pretty reliable wins. I don't need honor on Verain, pretty much this whole expac, so I only ever go in to play my favorite character or to test stuff. It always makes me sad that I can't translate the benefits of this over to my other characters.



    It's difficult to fuss out what is real data and what is imagined. For instance, pretend that Horde win 70% of a BG and alliance win 30% of a BG- I think everyone would agree that is something that NEEDS to be addressed, right? That would be a clarion call for allowing matches to be made regardless of faction, for instance. For this example, pretend that we are studying the armories of 5 characters of alliance, and 5 characters of horde. You might expect to see a 70% win ratio on the 5 horde, and a 30% win ratio on the 5 alliance. But pretend that two of the characters- one alliance, and one horde- swapped factions at some point. Now when you go to do average wins for the horde, you are averaging 70% times 4 and 30% times 1. This is a 62% win rate now- those two exchanges really muck this data up, because in this example horde really are winning 70% of something and alliance losing 30% of the time, but the 62% / 38% thing is a pretty huge shift- 16%.

    Now, I doubt 20% of players faction change, but I also bet that the numbers are mangled further. You have people on both sides who have win ratios shifted because they play in premades a lot, you have a lot of historical data in there (for instance, AV is alliance biased now, but there was a solid two years where it was horde favored, and times before that where the bridge made it even more ally favored than today).


    Blizzard won't release win/loss ratios. Oqueue shows a horde win rate that is high, but more horde still use oqueue (however, this is becoming normalized without changing the results much). It's very rare that Blizzard is willing to adjust a BG, and it has to be absolutely ludicrous- for instance, in RBGs, we initially saw a 70% win ratio for starting on the horde side of Silvershard. RBGs don't have universally better horde players than alliance (one of the common theories about the random BG scenario, which, if true, would simply argue strongly that alliance need help, or same faction queueing). In fact, often it is the same side playing each other in RBGs. As a result of these ludicrous win rates, Blizzard made an early change to mine spawn carts, which did in fact push it to something a little more reasonable, but then they had to change them AGAIN. The current mine is as even as it ever is, but now we have a different situation: most alliance don't know how to play it yet, because they mostly have not when it was unfair. The horde, as a collective, basically had early release of this BG by a year, and as such, they understand some of the more basic tenets of it, whereas only serious ally pvpers do anything there. So it COULD be fixed, but we won't know for literally A YEAR.



    Anyway. I think the answer to all this is same faction queueing. That would preemptively solve any later issues, such as horde being better than ally on average. In the mean time, I mostly gain my honor through other means, but who knows how long that will last.

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