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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    You too Apple dude.


    BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Who said I like Apple? I said some people do. I'm happy with my Droid.

  2. #182
    Field Marshal Ejmis's Avatar
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    Not at all. The light burns the undead.. SO ... Yeah.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Some people aren't objecting to the idea at all, just the really crappy way you're misrepresenting existing lore to justify it.
    Pretty much this.

    I'd love Forsaken Paladins. I'd love other classes too; Night Elf Paladins, Blood Elf Druids, Draenei Warlocks, etc. some of those classes and races just don't mix. Others can be made to fit with existing lore.

    For example, I have my own concepts for NE paladins and BE Druids that use existing lore as a basis. I've shared them with other RPers and lore lovers who usually have an agreement or two and we put together concepts and more ideas to make them better fitting to WoW's lore. However, sometimes it just can't be done.

    Draenei Warlocks? Even less likely than Forsaken Paladins. Tauren Warlocks? Fat chance. Orc Paladins or Priests? Good luck.

    Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Trying to shoehorn something into the game is bad. Blizzard could make it work, but would it be believable? Probably not. Tauren Priests/Paladins was done in an okay way (them being more "sun Druids," than anything), etc, etc. but like I said, sometimes it's okay and sometimes it isn't.

  4. #184
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    A lot of people are saying "no, only Sir Zeliek" etc.

    However, there are examples of Undead Paladins throughout the game. In Icecrown for example you can see several Undead mobs using spells such as "Unholy Light", "Hammer of Injustice" and "Avenger's Shield".

    Yes, lore-wise light burns Undead. However, Undead Paladins can still have the conviction needed to utilise their former light-given powers either by stealing them (as the Blood Elves do) or by sheer force of will, as Sir Zeliek and several other monsters display. Undead Paladins are not simply Death Knights either; a Death Knight is unique in that they are far less decayed than the average Undead (since they are very powerful necromantic beings, chosen for their prowess in life and thus aren't left dead for long) and have a heavy reliance on Runic powers to fuel their life-energy and powers. Undead Paladins would be perfectly viable both lore-wise (if we assume they are using Shadow Magic as Priests are, or are using similar powers to Sir Zeliek) and gameplay wise definitely would help with the variety of Paladins available.

    It would be great to see more options for the Paladin class. They could even do some minortweaks to the spell graphics to display the difference in power-source for a Forsaken/Blood Knight/Silver Hand/Sunwalker... although for recognition's sake may wish to keep them all with the "yellow" spell graphics.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-11-04 at 07:30 PM.
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  5. #185
    Dreadlord Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    A lot of people are saying "no, only Sir Zeliek" etc.

    However, there are examples of Undead Paladins throughout the game. In Icecrown you can see several Undead mobs using spells such as "Unholy Light", "Hammer of Injustice" and "Avenger's Shield".

    Yes, lore-wise light burns Undead. However, an Undead Paladin is not simply a Death Knight as the Re-animated Crusader, Sir Zeliek and several other monsters display. A Death Knight is unique in that they are far less decayed than the average Undead and have a heavy reliance on Runic powers. Undead Paladins would be perfectly viable both lore-wise (if we assume they are using Shadow Magic) and gameplay wise.

    It would be great to see more options for the Paladin class. They could even do some minor graphical tweaks to the spell graphics although for recognition's sake may wish to keep them all with the "yellow" spell graphics.
    But 'Unholy Light' and all that, isn't what Paladins is about. Paladins is all about being imbued by the Holy Light and their faith, not abusing some light to make it unholy. That is Death Knight Unholy for.

    Even if it would be awesome to see a Forsaken Paladin and I would probably play one, can't I see that happening. As much as Draenei Warlocks don't make sense does Forsaken Paladins not make sense. If you look at it, Draenei and Forsaken are the opposite as Warlock and Paladins are. At least close. : p

  6. #186
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironjaws-Mike View Post
    But 'Unholy Light' and all that, isn't what Paladins is about. Paladins is all about being imbued by the Holy Light and their faith, not abusing some light to make it unholy. That is Death Knight Unholy for.
    That's exactly what Blood Knights were doing until they got the blessing from the Naaru though. They stole the power from a being of pure light. They didn't gain it through sheer faith or worship like the Humans, Dwarves and Tauren all did. Infact, the only reason they did it was because their old granted powers were disappearing as they were no longer a moral race. It doesn't even matter if M'uru willingly let it happen; as far as the Blood Elves were aware, what they were doing was stealing his power. That is neither a moral decision, nor was there any particularly strong conviction in what they were doing; essentially obtaining power for power's sake. That is not the path a "true" Paladin walks.

    Forsaken on the other hand could easily use the Zeliek angle; they may have died, and now be risen to do another's bidding, but their faith and conviction is so strong that the light still serves them. As long as the Paladin has morals and uses his power for good, the Light doesn't abandon them. Forsaken don't need to be inherently evil. They were once living after all.

    The naming of "Unholy Light" just displays to me the twisted version of the power of Light, similar to what Undead Priests use; it's essentially Shadow magic being twisted to have a similar effect to their former Light-given power. However, there are two ways it could be played and make perfect sense.

    Either the Zeliek angle; still righteous, if dead.
    Or the "Priest" angle; using shadow magic in lore, but holy magic for game-play representation only.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-11-04 at 07:43 PM.
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  7. #187
    Only problem with Undead Paladins is the same with Blood Elf Druids. They do exist but they are so few in number putting them in game wouldn't make any sense lore wise.

    Undead can wield the light they just can't act as vessels for it, which is what a Paladin is. It would be like setting yourself on fire, not dying, and staying that way for the rest of your life, not a logical choice by any means.

    Those paladins that are undead do not do so willingly or are totally insane (Scarlet Crusade)

  8. #188
    Pandaren Monk 1ns's Avatar
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    Yes, it could work. I wrote an idea once of a hero class called 'corrupted paladin' which basically was a shadow / unholy paladin.
    There is no such thing as "ability bloat" just l2fp.

  9. #189
    Field Marshal Arzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avengex View Post
    Light burning the undead? How can undead be priests using holy spells? Not so into lore so please explain for me
    Paladins put their faith in the light and ARE the light, meanwhile priests use the light like a.. "tool" and can use it.. even as undead, but it burns and hurts shitload.
    (but undead priests HEALING with light is false.. just a gameplay mechanic)

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Some people aren't objecting to the idea at all, just the really crappy way you're misrepresenting existing lore to justify it.
    Please feel free to show any lies I have told or stretches I have used regarding Lore to make a point. I'm sorry if gameplay mechanics are included in my explanations. I am using facts at my disposal to discuss probability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironjaws-Mike View Post
    But 'Unholy Light' and all that, isn't what Paladins is about. Paladins is all about being imbued by the Holy Light and their faith, not abusing some light to make it unholy. That is Death Knight Unholy for.

    Even if it would be awesome to see a Forsaken Paladin and I would probably play one, can't I see that happening. As much as Draenei Warlocks don't make sense does Forsaken Paladins not make sense. If you look at it, Draenei and Forsaken are the opposite as Warlock and Paladins are. At least close. : p
    True. But before Gameplay explained it all away, Belf pallies used to "bend" the light to their will. Sun Walker taurens are not Paladins, but for the sake of Gameplay, they are. There are several race/class combos which Blizz stretched the lore for. Like Night Elf mages. 10k years ago, the night elves exiled their high elf brethren for using arcane magic. Now, "because of deathwing", the hypocrites are mages. Go figure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NSrm View Post
    Yes, it could work. I wrote an idea once of a hero class called 'corrupted paladin' which basically was a shadow / unholy paladin.
    THIS is exactly how it would work. It would be a CORRUPTED paladin according to LORE, and a reg Paladin according to gameplay mechanics.
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Araron View Post
    This.It has been confirmed that the Undead Priest works only because of the shadow aspect,even though an Undead priest can use the Holy Light,just like any Undead,it causes damage to them/it pains them.
    No. All undead priests are shadow priests. Gameplay wise that wouldn't work but lorewise they are all SP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  12. #192
    The Risen at Tyr's Hand are former Scarlet Crusaders who are now undead, and employ several holy priests as well as paladins. It's clearly a non-issue.

  13. #193
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    True. But before Gameplay explained it all away, Belf pallies used to "bend" the light to their will. Sun Walker taurens are not Paladins, but for the sake of Gameplay, they are. There are several race/class combos which Blizz stretched the lore for. Like Night Elf mages. 10k years ago, the night elves exiled their high elf brethren for using arcane magic. Now, "because of deathwing", the hypocrites are mages. Go figure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    THIS is exactly how it would work. It would be a CORRUPTED paladin according to LORE, and a reg Paladin according to gameplay mechanics.


    it would be good enough for me, call 'em whatever you want. as long as they play the same.
    .


    When someone asks you if you're a god, YOU SAY 'YES'!

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    it would be good enough for me, call 'em whatever you want. as long as they play the same.
    Fair enough. They aren't wielding the Light.

    THat's how I envisioned my NE Paladins as well (Lorewise, they don't use the Light, their power is from Elune, it's Lunar based - we've seen what they could do with race separated powers with the Tyrande fight in the HoT dungeon). Much like Tauren Paladins are "Sun Knights/Druids," NE Paladins are "Lunar Knights," so I suppose Forsaken Paladins could be "Shadow Knights."

  15. #195
    Did someone really say that something in the game is not lore? /boggle

    Holy spec undead priests are in the lore. Therefore it stands to reason that there ought to be a few exceptional individuals who can wield the righteous fury of a paladin, though it sear their own undead flesh. No reason to exclude it, AFAIC.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Theatre View Post
    The Risen at Tyr's Hand are former Scarlet Crusaders who are now undead, and employ several holy priests as well as paladins. It's clearly a non-issue.
    You know that, I know that, but who is gonna break it to the Lore Knights?
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    10k years ago, the night elves exiled their high elf brethren for using arcane magic. Now, "because of deathwing", the hypocrites are mages. Go figure.
    Night Elf Mages are Highborne, the sect of Night Elves that continued to use arcane magic but were not exiled across the sea to become High Elves and eventually Blood Elves. The Shen'dralar of Dire Maul were one such group. Now, after the Cataclysm, they have rejoined the greater Night Elf society. It is from this group, lorewise, that playable Night Elf Mages belong. So no hypocrisy took place. Go figure.

    You know that, I know that, but who is gonna break it to the Lore Knights?
    I've been trying.
    "What do you consider your greatest fault?"
    "Honesty."
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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    so I suppose Forsaken Paladins could be "Shadow Knights."
    NOW you are thinking outside the box. It is nice to see people say "HOW CAN WE MAKE IT HAPPEN" rather than "NO".
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    NOW you are thinking outside the box. It is nice to see people say "HOW CAN WE MAKE IT HAPPEN" rather than "NO".
    I never said it couldn't happen. I said it's highly unlikely for Undead Paladins, given the lore we have.

  20. #200
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S7orm View Post
    /cast Holy Wrath

    oh shit, oh shit, oh shit
    I actually chuckled and had a good mental image of that.





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