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  1. #141
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Simple answer is make all their spells shadowy in appearance but do holy damage same as every other paladin. It would look badass, and all they would have to do is explain that they are able to harness the light through the darkness that they have overcome.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    You seem to love your lore, and defending it. So, here you go. The opening sequence in Gilneas has you... A HUMAN druid... fighting your way to the chapel at level 5 or 6, where you are then completely turned from a scratch you suffered in a cellar. You were human before you turned. You were a druid before you turned. If worgen NEVER came to Gilneas, you will still be Human... and a DRUID. Please. Make these facts VANISH Houdini
    Already explained it. Unless Blizzard planned to give Druids to other races, which you can feel free to try and give another Alliance race Druids without breaking lore, they HAD to give Gilnean Humans the ability to be Druids before meeting the Night Elves. It's the same reason why all other races can suddenly be Monks during the Cataclysm, despite not meeting the Pandaren until after. Similar to how all races could be Death Knights, but had to go back to Outland to continue leveling.

    The game had to allow it because there was no way around it without breaking the lore even further. Lorewise, Worgen learned their Druidic powers from the Night Elves. Before then, it is only Gameplay that allows Gilnean Humans to be Druids.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmbryant91 View Post
    you're trying WAY too hard..
    I am just making a point. The Lore Knights seem to love being right and having an explanation for everything. I just want them to explain that one away.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Yes, and these people call Apple support everytime there is an update cause they lost everything. I've never had to call Android for... well... anything. Cause Google just works. My analogy has to do with Drinking the WoW (Apple) KoolAid and not realizing there is Coke in the Fridge too.
    I like KoolAid more than Coke, too.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Before then, it is only Gameplay that allows Gilnean Humans to be Druids.
    Yes. Gameplay. The same gameplay which could allow Undead to be raised as Paladins.

    *cut scene* Forsaken grave robbers are looting holy tombs just found beneath Lordaeron and have been moving the once human Paladins to Deathnell for further research. It has been discovered when Holy Light from Undead Priests combined with the Dark Magic used to resurrect Forsaken is COMBINED, these former guardians of the light are reanimated to serve Sylvannas and her armies.*end cut*

    Anything can be explained into Lore. They just have to do it.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    You seem to love your lore, and defending it. So, here you go. The opening sequence in Gilneas has you... A HUMAN druid... fighting your way to the chapel at level 5 or 6, where you are then completely turned from a scratch you suffered in a cellar. You were human before you turned. You were a druid before you turned. If worgen NEVER came to Gilneas, you will still be Human... and a DRUID. Please. Make these facts VANISH Houdini
    They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

    The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Undead priests say hello.
    No undea priest willingly uses the Light exclusively. Lore wise, they're all Shadow and are part of the Church of Shadow. They only use the Light a little bit because they need to balance it. None of them use it on any large scale, especially not when compared to other priests.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I like KoolAid more than Coke, too.
    It would figure

  8. #148
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    we have those in the game....they are called Death Knights
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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    There is no Forsaken Priest who wields the Light at all times, and until you can point one out to me, saying there is is silly. (Our player characters do not count, as player characters are allowed to do as they please without affecting lore.)

    The Forsaken as a culture refuse the Light.
    From Beryl, a Forsaken priest in the starter zone, and the quest Garments of Darkness:
    "You have acknowledged that there is merit in knowing the healing arts. This is wise. But before you can know the dark, you must also know the light."

    Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. And by "at all times" I didn't mean casting 24/7 or something ridiculous like that, but by the same token, Blizzard has never implied that there are any restrictions on how frequently they can wield the Light, only that doing so causes pain.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I am just making a point. The Lore Knights seem to love being right and having an explanation for everything. I just want them to explain that one away.
    Because it's a lot less work for Blizzard to allow you to pick the Druid class and level up as a Druid instead of making you play a random class and then giving you the option to become a Druid after you've turned into a Worgen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I like KoolAid more than Coke, too.
    ^ Red KoolAid > Everything. I'm embracing my stereotype.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    From Ask Creative Development -- Round II Q & A 23 Jun 2011 (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2721372142) in World of Warcraft this has been changed to be that "Channeling the Light in any way, or receiving healing from the Light, only causes pain. Forsaken priests do not disintegrate or explode from channeling the Light." However, following up that question it would seem that channelling the Light has caused some Forsaken to slowly experience a sharpening of their dulled senses. So in addition to pain they also experience the decay of their flesh more acutely.

    Even if they use paladin like abilities they arent true paladins.. And they will get destroyed by that power..
    Despite the effects this has on them, Forsaken priests who use the Holy Light are still considered priests... so why would other undead who use the Holy Light as paladins not be considered paladins?
    Also this Dev answer keeps citing Forsaken specifically and, as others have mentioned, Forsaken Paladins wouldn't make a lot of sense as Forsaken have deliberately abandoned the Light. However the thread is "Undead Paladins". Can Undead be Paladins? Why yes, here are several examples of Undead Paladins. Done and done.
    You could even concoct additional loreguments, as the Risen examples I used were corrupted and raised by a Nathrezim and not the Lich King as the original Forsaken were, maybe that affects their blah blah deedle deedle dee.
    Point is they are undead and they are paladins. This is not complicated.
    "What do you consider your greatest fault?"
    "Honesty."
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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

    The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.
    That's weird, since I could shapeshift into 3 different animals before I even left Gilneas for Darnassus. I know you knights want to explain it all away, but all I keep seeing is GAMEPLAY.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Yes. Gameplay. The same gameplay which could allow Undead to be raised as Paladins.

    *cut scene* Forsaken grave robbers are looting holy tombs just found beneath Lordaeron and have been moving the once human Paladins to Deathnell for further research. It has been discovered when Holy Light from Undead Priests combined with the Dark Magic used to resurrect Forsaken is COMBINED, these former guardians of the light are reanimated to serve Sylvannas and her armies.*end cut*

    Anything can be explained into Lore. They just have to do it.
    And that explanation is a last ditch effort to say it's possible without any reasoning behind it. I have heard that explanation for Demon Hunters, I have heard that explanation for High Elves on the Alliance, and I have heard that explanation for Murlocs as a playable race. Not a single time has it been a valid argument.

    Blizzard could decide to nuke all races tomorrow, destroy every class that currently exists, and remake the game. They could make it work in lore. So I guess that makes it just as likely to happen as Undead Paladins, right?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Turmoill View Post
    That's purely for gameplay reasons.
    Lore wise, undead can only be shadow priests.
    Not true. Fairly recently blizzard stated undead can be holy priests, it's just excessively painful for them to do so.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    All of them working with the Argent Dawn, all wearing Pally Plate and swinging 2h maces. Sure looks like there are tons of Paladins as NPCs who are not playable as player characters. Thank you for showing everyone this information. It might help convince Blizz we are past due for an unlock.
    Sure looks like someone ignoring the fact that there is plenty of pally looking plate available to non-paladin classes as well as the fact that an NPC faction tends to have members dress in matching gear.
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  16. #156
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

    The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.



    No undea priest willingly uses the Light exclusively. Lore wise, they're all Shadow and are part of the Church of Shadow. They only use the Light a little bit because they need to balance it. None of them use it on any large scale, especially not when compared to other priests.
    But doesn't all magic come from the same base essence? All magic can be converted into other types it just has to change after it has been cast I AM A WIZARD!!!
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Yes. Gameplay. The same gameplay which could allow Undead to be raised as Paladins.

    *cut scene* Forsaken grave robbers are looting holy tombs just found beneath Lordaeron and have been moving the once human Paladins to Deathnell for further research. It has been discovered when Holy Light from Undead Priests combined with the Dark Magic used to resurrect Forsaken is COMBINED, these former guardians of the light are reanimated to serve Sylvannas and her armies.*end cut*

    Anything can be explained into Lore. They just have to do it.
    Except that's explicitly against how Blizzard has said undead paladins would work (and the Light in general works).

    The Light cannot be forcibly wielded. It's based on faith.

    Humans have faith. Dwarves have faith. The Scarlet Crusade has faith (but they're all insane). Blood Elves draw theirs from the Sunwell now (which was originally Arcane, but is now a mixture of Arcane and Light power after Mu'ru's essence was infused with it by Velen), and before that, Mu'ru willingly let himself be captured and have is essence be drawn from himself so the Blood Elves could be saved (Velen explains this after Mu'ru's death in the SWP raid).

    If undead paladins did come into WoW, they would have to be exceedingly few. The kind of willpower needed to A. Withstand the destruction of their bodies and B. Faith needed in life in the first place is exceptional. It's not like everyone and their brother could do it after being raised. It's the major reason why most who were paladins in life are now death knights.

    To clarify: I've never said it wasn't possible, I said it's highly unlikely. You're a thousand times more likely to get bitten by a shark or struck by lightning than you would be to encounter an undead paladin. Such a being would've been a literal beacon of Light in life (think Uther, Turalyon, etc). The few, the proud, the Paladins, if you will.

    Think of it like this: it's easy to play baseball, but it's hard to play baseball well, yes? Same concept; it's easy to be a paladin, but not everyone is good enough to be an undead paladin.

  18. #158
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    As a class, would the lore support the undead able to become paladins?
    sure. why not. they made holy cows and blood elf paladins. lets have come orc, troll, and goblin paladins while we are at it.
    there is nothing Blizzard can not go back and re write lore for it enough people QQ about it.





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  19. #159
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    sure. why not. they made holy cows and blood elf paladins. lets have come orc, troll, and goblin paladins while we are at it.
    there is nothing Blizzard can not go back and re write lore for it enough people QQ about it.
    It is their lore they can do what they want with it in the end. Caring about the changes they make will only butt hurt the lore masters out there.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    That's weird, since I could shapeshift into 3 different animals before I even left Gilneas for Darnassus. I know you knights want to explain it all away, but all I keep seeing is GAMEPLAY.
    Way to ignore my entire argument.

    I explained it. Harvest Druids are not real Druids. You only had those spells because of gameplay. Harvest Druids cannot shapeshift, they only existed in Gilneas to help with the farms. They helped grow plants, grats you're a "Druid."

    Think of them as being mages who cast healing spells instead of shape shifting and fireballs. Because they aren't real Druids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    But doesn't all magic come from the same base essence? All magic can be converted into other types it just has to change after it has been cast I AM A WIZARD!!!
    No, it doesn't. There are opposites, but all magic comes from varying sources. Shadow spells come from the void, light comes from the Light, etc. shamans and Druids both wield nature magic, but shaman gets theirs from the elements, Druids from the nature, mages get theirs from arcane, warlocks from fel-arcane, etc. all magic is different.

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