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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And that explanation is a last ditch effort to say it's possible without any reasoning behind it. I have heard that explanation for Demon Hunters, I have heard that explanation for High Elves on the Alliance, and I have heard that explanation for Murlocs as a playable race. Not a single time has it been a valid argument.

    Blizzard could decide to nuke all races tomorrow, destroy every class that currently exists, and remake the game. They could make it work in lore. So I guess that makes it just as likely to happen as Undead Paladins, right?
    People want to dig up paladins to play Murlocs? Now you are just dodging the real point. You've said it is possible, and thankfully Blizz gets the final vote, not the Lore Knights, or the Combo Breakers (like myself). So, we will leave it in their hands and hope they choose wisely. Though, if there is one thing about Blizz, they tend to stray when it comes to clear thinking, so I believe the odds are slightly in my favor

  2. #162
    Stood in the Fire
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    Lore-wise the undead can not utilize the holy light.

    Note that the holy light DOES NOT EQUAL generic holy magic. It is debated whether or not undead can "actually" use holy magic in any form, or if it is just a game mechanic.

    What is clear, however, is that the undead CAN NOT use the holy light of creation. It does not respond to the undead when used. This is possibly because of a strange loop hole in the way the Light works in that it is the collective benevolence of all mortal life. The undead are cut off from the living not only physically but spiritually, and are no longer part of that collective spiritual network.

    Paladins, unlike priests, are ALWAYS connected to the Holy Light religion / philosophy. It is literally impossible for an undead to be a paladin. They could delude themselves and pretend they're a paladin, but they'd just be a warrior with some magic tricks. Paladins are literally warriors blessed with supernatural powers by the Light itself. It's not something anyone can just pick up and do.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Way to ignore my entire argument.
    And way to ignore mine. If they are only Harvest Druids, they should have been left that way. But, since they were not, and it was stretched for the gameplay, Blizz needs to make another stretch for gameplay. Race/Class combo unlocks... let's hope with 6.0.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And way to ignore mine. If they are only Harvest Druids, they should have been left that way. But, since they were not, and it was stretched for the gameplay, Blizz needs to make another stretch for gameplay. Race/Class combo unlocks... let's hope with 6.0.
    Let's hope not, honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    People want to dig up paladins to play Murlocs? Now you are just dodging the real point. You've said it is possible, and thankfully Blizz gets the final vote, not the Lore Knights, or the Combo Breakers (like myself). So, we will leave it in their hands and hope they choose wisely. Though, if there is one thing about Blizz, they tend to stray when it comes to clear thinking, so I believe the odds are slightly in my favor
    I've said Undead Paladins are possible. I've also said Forsaken Paladins are about as likely to happen as a rework of the entire game.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And way to ignore mine. If they are only Harvest Druids, they should have been left that way. But, since they were not, and it was stretched for the gameplay, Blizz needs to make another stretch for gameplay. Race/Class combo unlocks... let's hope with 6.0.
    No, that's not how it works.

    Harvest Druids aren't real Druids. They're leftovers from the primal human cultures (since Gilneas was relatively isolated, their cultures still survived to an extent).

    The harvest Druids helped with agriculture. Nothing else. They couldn't shapeshift. They couldn't do anything even lower tier Druids could (though their spells resembled those). They were not Druids.

    Take it from this:
    Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was. Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.

    This is complied from in-game sources and the Ask Dev threads. They were never Druids, they never have been. It was only with the curse (and those afflicted with it) that real Druids finally emerged in Gilneas culture.

    Yeah yeah, I'm a "Lore Knight," or whatever. But as it stands, I'm right.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And way to ignore mine. If they are only Harvest Druids, they should have been left that way. But, since they were not, and it was stretched for the gameplay, Blizz needs to make another stretch for gameplay. Race/Class combo unlocks... let's hope with 6.0.
    I completely agree with everything you have said in this thread. The lore knights for some reason cant stand the thought of unlocking new race / class combinations.

    What I dont get about many of the blind WoW fans, is that they dislike any extra options for the player. Wether it comes to race / class combos, to different subscription models for different types of players. They like one thing and they take blizzard's stance as gospel when it comes to anything related to the game, yet blizzard's stance has changed many many many times over the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    No, that's not how it works.

    Harvest Druids aren't real Druids. They're leftovers from the primal human cultures (since Gilneas was relatively isolated, their cultures still survived to an extent).

    The harvest Druids helped with agriculture. Nothing else. They couldn't shapeshift. They couldn't do anything even lower tier Druids could (though their spells resembled those). They were not Druids.

    Take it from this:
    Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was. Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.

    This is complied from in-game sources and the Ask Dev threads. They were never Druids, they never have been. It was only with the curse (and those afflicted with it) that real Druids finally emerged in Gilneas culture.

    Yeah yeah, I'm a "Lore Knight," or whatever. But as it stands, I'm right.
    I would really like to see your "source" on all of this harvest druid bullshit. I call it bullshit because I think you are pulling this stuff directly out of your ass.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I would really like to see your "source" on all of this harvest druid bullshit. I call it bullshit because I think you are pulling this stuff directly out of your ass.
    Q: What is the lore behind Gilnean druidism and the existence of "harvest-witches"? Is it a native practice, developed by the humans? Did they somehow pick it up from the night elves, even before the Eastern Kingdoms’ discovery of Kalimdor?
    A: In the early days of humanity and its civilization, many tribes of humans had primitive belief systems that incorporated simple nature magic. However, the rise of organized religion such as the Holy Light and the potent arcane magics introduced by the high elves quickly supplanted such traditions. Gilneas, due to its relative isolation, has retained a degree of their ancient culture in the contemporary era. The religious leaders of what was in Gilneas referred to as the "old ways" eventually became "harvest-witches"; those who used their nature powers to augment Gilneas’ agricultural output during and following its period of industrialization. Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was! Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.


    And here's the US link for people who like to blow off the EU boards for some reason: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6489940501
    Last edited by unholytestament; 2013-11-04 at 07:00 PM.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
    2/5/1940 - 5/12/2014

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I completely agree with everything you have said in this thread. The lore knights for some reason cant stand the thought of unlocking new race / class combinations.

    What I dont get about many of the blind WoW fans, is that they dislike any extra options for the player. Wether it comes to race / class combos, to different subscription models for different types of players. They like one thing and they take blizzard's stance as gospel when it comes to anything related to the game, yet blizzard's stance has changed many many many times over the years.

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    I would really like to see your "source" on all of this harvest druid bullshit. I call it bullshit because I think you are pulling this stuff directly out of your ass.
    http://wowpedia.org/Harvest-witch

    Wowpedia is run by Curse, and it's always being updated. Those things at the bottom are called "references," and include both in-game and out of game sources, including stuff from Ask The CDevs threads on the WoW forums. So yes, pulling it out of my ass.

    Ignore the speculation. It is just speculation and can neither be proved, nor disproven. Interesting to think about, but we talking facts here after all.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I completely agree with everything you have said in this thread. The lore knights for some reason cant stand the thought of unlocking new race / class combinations.

    What I dont get about many of the blind WoW fans, is that they dislike any extra options for the player. Wether it comes to race / class combos, to different subscription models for different types of players. They like one thing and they take blizzard's stance as gospel when it comes to anything related to the game, yet blizzard's stance has changed many many many times over the years.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I would really like to see your "source" on all of this harvest druid bullshit. I call it bullshit because I think you are pulling this stuff directly out of your ass.
    That's because you're Jaylock, one of the least informed people when it comes to WoW lore.

    His/her post is quoted directly from wowpedia. Source: http://wowpedia.org/Harvest-witch

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Q: What is the lore behind Gilnean druidism and the existence of "harvest-witches"? Is it a native practice, developed by the humans? Did they somehow pick it up from the night elves, even before the Eastern Kingdoms’ discovery of Kalimdor?
    A: In the early days of humanity and its civilization, many tribes of humans had primitive belief systems that incorporated simple nature magic. However, the rise of organized religion such as the Holy Light and the potent arcane magics introduced by the high elves quickly supplanted such traditions. Gilneas, due to its relative isolation, has retained a degree of their ancient culture in the contemporary era. The religious leaders of what was in Gilneas referred to as the "old ways" eventually became "harvest-witches"; those who used their nature powers to augment Gilneas’ agricultural output during and following its period of industrialization. Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was! Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.
    /brofist

    Love you dude

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    That's because you're Jaylock, one of the least informed people when it comes to WoW lore.

    His/her post is quoted directly from wowpedia. Source: http://wowpedia.org/Harvest-witch
    More /brofists!

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengex View Post
    Light burning the undead? How can undead be priests using holy spells? Not so into lore so please explain for me
    I'm pretty sure in the canon lore all Forsaken Priests are Shadow, while all the living Priests are the other two. It's simply gameplay mechanics that comes before lore in this case.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I'm pretty sure in the canon lore all Forsaken Priests are Shadow, while all the living Priests are the other two. It's simply gameplay mechanics that comes before lore in this case.
    While not entirely true, it was thought to be at one point in time.

    Blizzard has confirmed that Forsaken Priests are able to wield the Holy Light, but that it has more of a cauterizing effect on themselves as well as any Forsaken healed by the Light. However, Forsaken Priests are very unlikely to use it for very long. Forsaken Priests are forever to walk a path of corruption and darkness, as stated by Priest trainers in the Forsaken starting zone. So while it can be done, it is very rare, and causes very high physical and emotional trauma for the Forsaken attempting to do so for long periods of time.

    Only those of high devotion and faith can do so, and it will still cause them extreme torment when doing so. Priests, however, do not have to channel the Light for long periods of time. Priests can stop channeling the light, and choose to channel Shadow instead. That is the difference between Forsaken Priests and Forsaken Paladins; Paladins can NEVER stop being an embodiment of the Light. Priests balance the Light and Shadow.

  13. #173
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
    2/5/1940 - 5/12/2014

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Yeah yeah, I'm a "Lore Knight," or whatever. But as it stands, I'm right.
    Well, as long as you think so, that's what matters most. I've said my peace and the lore knights are latched on like a pittbull on a hambone. I'll just leave it in Blizz's hands.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Well, as long as you think so, that's what matters most. I've said my peace and the lore knights are latched on like a pittbull on a hambone. I'll just leave it in Blizz's hands.
    And your peace is uninformed, and incorrect at every turn. Have a good one.

  16. #176
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Eventually it will happen. I one of the last x-pacs, I suppose it will be free for all and tri specc. Flying at lv 1..yada yada..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hehe..lore explains my bad dps on my UD. I am so much in pain when I get healed..I forget my rotations (and stand in fires..because they are less painful)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I completely agree with everything you have said in this thread. The lore knights for some reason cant stand the thought of unlocking new race / class combinations.

    What I dont get about many of the blind WoW fans, is that they dislike any extra options for the player. Wether it comes to race / class combos, to different subscription models for different types of players. They like one thing and they take blizzard's stance as gospel when it comes to anything related to the game, yet blizzard's stance has changed many many many times over the years.
    Agreed. You would think, as a PLAYER, they would want MORE options, not fewer. At times, it feels less like asking Blizz for a QoL change and more like saving books from a bonfire in 1942. I want to add 10k things to WoW, but the Lore Knights won't stand for it.

  18. #178
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    As a class, would the lore support the undead able to become paladins?
    Considering how wishy washy blizzard has been with the lore the past couple of xpacs, I think they should allow every race to be every class. Practically every mmo on the right now allows every race to play every class. I realize that it would be a huge undertaking, having to make all the armor to fit every race. Even now, some of the old armor sets look odd on pandas...
    What doesn't destroy us, only makes us stranger

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And your peace is uninformed, and incorrect at every turn. Have a good one.
    You too Apple dude.


    BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Agreed. You would think, as a PLAYER, they would want MORE options, not fewer. At times, it feels less like asking Blizz for a QoL change and more like saving books from a bonfire in 1942. I want to add 10k things to WoW, but the Lore Knights won't stand for it.
    Some people aren't objecting to the idea at all, just the really crappy way you're misrepresenting existing lore to justify it.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
    2/5/1940 - 5/12/2014

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