1. #1
    Blademaster Vector's Avatar
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    Raid composition question

    Hello! Ok so our raid leader right now is having us carry a 530ish holy pally in our progression guild. We aren't hardcore or anything..we raid 2 nights a week and are 13/14 Normal. With this holy pally our healer comp is 2 holy pallies, and 1 druid. I think this is dumb for our progression, due to the fact its already hard gearing one holy pally. I feel like this will hinder our progression, not to mention half of our raid is now on the same token. I'm the main tank (prot pally). I feel with this healer i have to be more aware of my defensives than before. Is this really viable for progression? If it was up to me, I'd get a geared shammy (we dont have lust in the group, besides drums). What do you guys think? Am I making a big stink for nothing? Also, mind you..our GM is a big nazi on progression, so im confused by this move.

  2. #2
    You've mentioned nothing of his skill only his gear. This is a pretty big indicator you are thinking about yourself.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Vector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You've mentioned nothing of his skill only his gear. This is a pretty big indicator you are thinking about yourself.
    I'm not thinking about myself, I'm fully geared 561, just missing boots. I'm thinking about downing Garrosh. Also to add, I don't know about his skills I don't watch him heal while I tank. I do know I go low...I do know he dies quite a bit..I also know we've had to explain all the fights to him.

  4. #4
    NOt having lust is a pretty big thing, but if the healer is good at his class its better to have him

  5. #5
    You should get a Disc and MW. DPS healers are amazing.

    Two hPals does seem strange. It's not super terrible (paladins are great healers), but gearing is definitely a valid concern.

    As far as a resto shaman, they're not fantastic for 10m. The only fight they're super amazing for is Thok.

    As others have said already though, skill is more important than comp. You can make almost anything work, albeit at a disadvantage.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    I agree that you don't have an optimal setup. There's several things one must keep in mind, when deciding the roster for a 10 man group.

    1. Gearing i.e don't have too many who share the same Tier/gear
    2. Class balance/buffs
    3. Skill

    So you say, that he dies a lot, that you had to explain most fights to him and that you go low. Going low is somewhat hard to comment on without a log tbh. If he's new to the fights, it would explain why he dies more often than others though. So maybe that will change to the better.

    The biggest issue I see here, is the gearing part. You simply just can't afford to have too many people on the same Token or sharing the identical pieces as 2xHpala will.
    I'll join the others in saying, that both Disc and MW are a far better choice than double Hpala, even though the Disc is on the same Token.

    Then again, you're a casual guild, so if you're satisfied with lower gearing process and a less optimal setup, any 3 healers will do tbh.

  7. #7
    our raid team has 6 sharing the same tier pieces , both tanks a healer and three dps , the 3 dps also share the same gear ( all hunters ) and we go just fine . Composition is really only a worry in heroic raids in my opinion, where gearing slightly is more important

  8. #8
    tokens shmokens, other than the hardcore guilds (who usually completel 4set through altruns on the first week anyways!), designing your raidcomp primarily around who's on what token is just silly. We have 2hunters/monk/shaman/warrior (roster of 11 people), 3 people on the paladin token, and 2 on the vanquisher, and still our first 4sets were our hunters, and all that ever seems to drop are their tokens.

    RNG will screw with you far more than having a suboptimal raid setup.


    However, why are you carrying a 530 hpala? He cant be a reroller (no exp on current fights as you said you had to explain everything to him), so either he's not played much at all or just came back from a break, either way why would you have him in your guild? Is he a friend, old member, or what? There has to be a reason people agreed to bring him along if he has neither current experience or gear. Maybe he has experience from past tiers that makes up for it, and could be considered a good enough player?

    Maybe if you need to fill out the spot and have a lack of raiders, which might very well be possible, you could bring such an undergeared player. I have a few alts above 540, with and without the cloak, and playing for more than a few weeks it's rather easy getting gear through flex / ordos / celestials and a trucktonne of timeless gear (spend enough time on the isle and youll get quite a few burdens).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkyaks View Post
    NOt having lust is a pretty big thing, but if the healer is good at his class its better to have him
    Can't see a problem with not having a shaman or a mage in your party for lust when there are lust drums you can make and pop it whenever you want without asking.

  10. #10
    The two HPala's won't be a huge issue. Chances are on progression fights their shields will be absorbed and as such not cause much overlap. They are competitive 10m healers at the moment.

  11. #11
    530 ilevel is more than enough for SoO normal modes. The prior raid's normal mode drops ilevel 522, so that's about what the SoO normal modes are tuned for.

    As for your comp, two holy paladins in a ten man isn't great due to gear concerns. However, it's probably fine if you're just clearing normals and doing a few heroics here and there.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by banadona View Post
    Can't see a problem with not having a shaman or a mage in your party for lust when there are lust drums you can make and pop it whenever you want without asking.
    Drums do not give the same boost as the spell. Drums give 25% and BL gives 30%. Not a huge difference but 5% across 10 people is kinda big.

    OT: You'll have more of a concern on fights that need to be 2 healed instead of 3. You don't really want another melee (pally) but your comp is probably fine for normal modes and heroics as well. Triple BoP is pretty cool as well.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleric View Post
    530 ilevel is more than enough for SoO normal modes. The prior raid's normal mode drops ilevel 522, so that's about what the SoO normal modes are tuned for.

    As for your comp, two holy paladins in a ten man isn't great due to gear concerns. However, it's probably fine if you're just clearing normals and doing a few heroics here and there.
    The initial fights are tuned for around that ilvl but certainly not garrosh. Blizz didn't expect normal mode raiders to clear normal SoO in a week, they expect guilds to progress slowly (and thus gear up).

    We killed garrosh with an average of around 550 in the second week of SoO (missed a first week kill by 5%) and it certainly wasn't an easy fight. It's only now that we're 560-570 that it's cake.

    OT: If you're three healing garrosh then your new paladin's ilvl shouldn't ake any difference as the best way to do this fight is 2 heal. Rather than worry about gearing the paladin I'd be more worried about how your dps is going to manage pushing him through each phase quick enough, especially with no bloodlust. I guess if you're 3 healing this allows you to use drums twice in the fight (once on pull, once on last phase)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    The initial fights are tuned for around that ilvl but certainly not garrosh. Blizz didn't expect normal mode raiders to clear normal SoO in a week, they expect guilds to progress slowly (and thus gear up).
    yup normal SoO does feel a bit strangly tuned - much better then ToT but stil for many guilds Garosh will be very brutal check , they progressed quite quickly up to him and will be stuck there for few weeks if not months (im talking about the average guilds not those who end up tier with full or 75% hc cleared) at least - but since its last boss of expansion why not -_-

  15. #15
    Blademaster
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    Most fights this tier are actually more viable to bring AOE healers and that makes Hpala's a little less useful, two Hpala's is a bit odd to be honest!

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