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  1. #101
    Brewmaster Ceethemage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meysam View Post
    Hey, thx to openraid.eu I managed to get the Spawn of Galakras mount and my heirloom weapon from Garrosh.
    I'm not a normal raider, since I can't play in the evenings, so I had to do LFR to see some of the content. With Flex being released I find that I can manage the content with a bit more challenge and less nerdrage, so thx Blizz for that!

    However, why on earth would raidleaders forming those groups want an 'ahead of the curve' achievement for joining on their flex runs?! Isn't the whole idea of Flex that it's supposed to be more casual? Lately I've been seeing ads with 'LFM SoO Flex 4, 550+, link your 14/14 normal achie!'.

    I get it that people want players with a bit of experience on the fights (especially Nazgrim, Blackfuse and Garrosh) but putting these conditions is way over the top imo...

    Thoughts?
    The requirements are the exact reasons why I haven't done flex. I get the feeling that they need to widdle out the incompetent but requirements like that are no worse than gearscore crap when it was horrible. I have tried to run my own flex but tanks on the server I belong to seem to be the worst to get. Flat out been told because my item level is 520 they wouldn't tank with retards or talk with them either. I've been a hardcore raider since BC, although my raiding schedule changed and I had to drop down from "hardcore" this expansion it doesn't mean I am incompetent. I still know my main and my only alt inside out and outside in. I still take raiding seriously and I still study the fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bigrichard View Post
    Can't join flex groups because of high requirements, can't fill a flex group because everyone wants to be carried by people who meet the high requirements. Such is life.
    Then there are the people who don't need to be "carried" because they know there class like me who want to do the content but can't because highly geared people judge me based on assumption and not even let me defend or prove I can pull my own weight. I hate being carried, but my definition of being carried is someone who doesn't want to do the work, and doesn't want to attack the boss and sits there and auto shoots or stabs.

  2. #102
    With 520 ilvl? Anyone can reach ~540+ with solo content (assuming raid finder being "solo content" that is). I don't doubt you study the fights, but someone with 520 ilvl clearly hasn't tried to gear that char.

    A guildie hitted 515 on the last alter he leveled the very same reset he dinged 90, and he had no drops from ordos and some pvp crap from celestials.

    520 only shows you are a newly dinged char or simply don't care. Both of them spell "don't group with him"

  3. #103
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Yes its fucking stupid. Thats why I make my own groups and anyone linking their 14/14 achivement is NOT getting in.
    could you link your armory so I can avoid any of your raids?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grandgato View Post
    While i believe a Raid Leader has the right to set whatever requirements they want, this entire discussion is pretty ironic. If Flex is being "mainly" used as another means for Normal/Heroic to augment themselves with additional gear is it serving it's main purpose? Blizzard indicates it was designed so Raiders could bring their lesser skilled friends along without having to bench them based on performance, and to support a more social PUG environment.

    I really don't think there is a problem here, but I am curious how this system will develop going into the next expansion.
    Competent players are always going to use a provided extra avenue of gearing for exactly that.





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  4. #104
    There's many reasons for a person with 540+ gear to join flex....fill in a slot they haven't upgraded yet, offspec gear (I'm 560, I do flex for offspec gear) etc. Obviously the 550+ groups aren't for you. I join the 550+ groups cause its basically the only way to guarantee minimal wipes with oQueue....and even then I've joined 550+ groups that had trouble on Garrosh. I've joined 540+ groups that fell apart because of too many wipes. Anything below that I don't even bother anymore. Sadly when you deal with randoms in WoW requirements have to be ridiculous or you'll be dissapointed 90% of the time.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Meysam View Post
    Hey, thx to openraid.eu I managed to get the Spawn of Galakras mount and my heirloom weapon from Garrosh.
    I'm not a normal raider, since I can't play in the evenings, so I had to do LFR to see some of the content. With Flex being released I find that I can manage the content with a bit more challenge and less nerdrage, so thx Blizz for that!

    However, why on earth would raidleaders forming those groups want an 'ahead of the curve' achievement for joining on their flex runs?! Isn't the whole idea of Flex that it's supposed to be more casual? Lately I've been seeing ads with 'LFM SoO Flex 4, 550+, link your 14/14 normal achie!'.

    I get it that people want players with a bit of experience on the fights (especially Nazgrim, Blackfuse and Garrosh) but putting these conditions is way over the top imo...

    Thoughts?
    There are plenty of other threads covering the same topic.

    OT: They make the group, it's their call what they require. If you don't meet the requirements, there are plenty of other groups to choose from. There's also nothing stopping you from making a group with whatever you choose as the requirements.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyofcode View Post
    all the gear is 540 so asking for anyone with ilvl higher than or equal to that is silly all the raid leader wants is for his alt to be carried for gear.
    What you and many others are forgetting to factor in is the huge itemlevel boost from the cape. I don't want to sit in Flex for an hour and a half because I take 535 ileveled people because "they're geared for it". If I'd organize a Flex pug, I'd go for 550+some progress at least (depending on what wing we'd be doing) instead. Rushing in 30mins or spending an hour and a half because "oh sorry, I've only done it once" or "I've never been on the conveyor belt, sorry for dying" or something else.

    Might not be what you want to hear but why waste time and effort when you can just bump the ilvl requirement up closer to your own so you don't have to carry people. Six 200k+ DPSers or one to three while the rest are pumping 100-150k? I know which I'd take every time if they're straight up pugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    He's telling you upfront what's going to take. It's not ninja looting. It's pirate looting! YAARRRR!!!

  7. #107
    ppl dont want others with "a bit more xp" they want a quick and smooth run with 0% chance to wipe. most of these people are just people that want to get carried. Ive been in couple of similar raids with such requirements where at least 2 guys dont have the required achievement, 2 are 10-20 ilevels behind the "requirement" and none actually pull their weight.

    the only good thing about this is that in flex 1-2 DPS and a healer can easily carry the entire raid in 10man mode.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Enjoy wiping then. I'm pretty sure i'm not alone on not wanting to join your groups
    Yeah because any group that isn't 14/14N wipes a lot on flex. OR, you're an idiot. One of the two.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    With 520 ilvl? Anyone can reach ~540+ with solo content (assuming raid finder being "solo content" that is). I don't doubt you study the fights, but someone with 520 ilvl clearly hasn't tried to gear that char.

    A guildie hitted 515 on the last alter he leveled the very same reset he dinged 90, and he had no drops from ordos and some pvp crap from celestials.

    520 only shows you are a newly dinged char or simply don't care. Both of them spell "don't group with him"
    You're full of shit. 520 is fine for the first few bosses and as long as the person's working on getting better (doing LFR, etc) the gear will take care of itself. This dickswinging from heroic raiders is amusing. Go raid heroic or normals. You don't HAVE to do Flex too (yes, I know there's some gear, no you don't need to run all 3 difficulties each week. Get a life).

    Flaming - Azshira
    Last edited by Azshira; 2013-11-03 at 11:48 PM.

  9. #109
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yeah because any group that isn't 14/14N wipes a lot on flex. OR, you're an idiot. One of the two.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're full of shit. 520 is fine for the first few bosses and as long as the person's working on getting better (doing LFR, etc) the gear will take care of itself. This dickswinging from heroic raiders is amusing. Go raid heroic or normals. You don't HAVE to do Flex too (yes, I know there's some gear, no you don't need to run all 3 difficulties each week. Get a life).

    Probably the first, since he is obviously not an idiot choosing the more experienced players to run smooth groups with.





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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yeah because any group that isn't 14/14N wipes a lot on flex. OR, you're an idiot. One of the two.
    Nope, there is a difference between "i don't demand AotC" and "someone that links AotC doesn't get an invite". The first one, while debatable, is a legit requeriment for a smooth run. The second one is just a poor flame bait.

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post

    You're full of shit. 520 is fine for the first few bosses and as long as the person's working on getting better (doing LFR, etc) the gear will take care of itself. This dickswinging from heroic raiders is amusing. Go raid heroic or normals. You don't HAVE to do Flex too (yes, I know there's some gear, no you don't need to run all 3 difficulties each week. Get a life).
    Such a lovely attempt at trolling

    I'll clarify, as you seem to enjoy it. Having 520 ilvl now means not playing said char, and if you don't play a char i won't want you in my raid. Especially if you also don't have anything to prove you know what you are doing. Work on getting to ~530 and join flex 1 and flex 2.
    Last edited by Inthislzon; 2013-11-03 at 11:36 PM.

  11. #111
    in my experience, gear can only compensate for so much incompetence. At lease with high standards you are giving yourself a cushion.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    Nope, there is a difference between "i don't demand AotC" and "someone that links AotC doesn't get an invite". The first one, while debatable, is a legit requeriment for a smooth run. The second one is just a poor flame bait.
    "If they don't want me in their groups, I don't want them" Yeah that's going to be a terrible group

  13. #113
    You have to understand that some of these groups are normal and/or hardcore raiders either 1) trying to get trinkets/off-pieces/tier that they need. or 2) on alts and don't wanna be teaching people the fights. Some people just have different reasons to do it. Find the casual groups.

  14. #114
    To be fair, I think all these "requirements" are just stupid for many reasons...

    Firstly, everyone takes Ilvl sooooo seriously its unbelievable and completely stupid.
    Secondly, hardly anyone takes achievements into consideration because all they care about is ilvl.
    Thirdly, people want High Ilvl players with High Achievements (Ahead of the curve Garrosh usually means the player is doing heroics, I've not needed to do flexi on my main since second week)

    Now.. This makes it impossible for new alts to be honest and its extremely frustrating.. I spent 2 weeks with very bad luck to manage to get to 520 ilvl (I simply don't have the time outside my main raids and IRL to farm burden of eternities, I believe I had got 3). On third week, I go on Openraid trying to find a team and not 1 person wanted me due to my ilvl and I had heroics under my belt experience, yet they preferred to take a few ilvl 530 players with just lfr experience, just because of the Ilvl (lol). The point is, it's very annoying that people make Ilvl sound like a godsend compared to actual experience.

    I'm currently at 542 ilvl on my alt, yet I've only actually been accepted into TWO flexi 3 raids (first one we 1 shot everything) and on the second week doing it, I was only accepted into a noob group after 3 hours on Openraid which took 1 hour to kill Malkorok (This group was ilvl 520+ team) as my ilvl wasnt "high" enough for everyone else and only got accepted into ONE flexi 4 raid which accepted almost everyone whilst trying to join one for 2/3 weeks before and no one took me - This group fell apart after Siegecrafter lol, go figures! But yeh..

    I understand there is a limit between Ilvl and Experience required, but it's the experience that matters, not the Ilvl. Yet the majority of players searching for players just go by Ilvl Ilvl doesnt make the player good at all, I actually top meters with players at 550+ ilvl or/and legendary capes / meta gems currently in most flexi's I have joined this week, yet I'm still not wanted for Flexi 3, 4 or for Garrosh :P

    My Main - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Divine/simple
    My Alt that dinged about 5 weeks ago - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntasies/simple
    Last edited by Hound02; 2013-11-03 at 10:37 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Hound02 View Post
    Secondly, hardly anyone takes achievements into consideration because all they care about is ilvl.
    Eh, not quite, I've found that linking my ahead of the curve or heroic achievements on my alts gets me into pugs only "requiring" 540+ or 550+ when I'm at like 530 especially if I'm a healer.

  16. #116
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Go for it! You can have your own criteria for exclusion.
    hahahah everyone gets in on the keeping everyone out of the party party.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelond View Post
    And tbh getting ilvl 540-550 is not really hard. I leveled a paladin alt in the start of T15 but barely played on it until this patch. Pre patch I think I had 520 gear on him and now after 2 weeks I am in 547 gear with 7 days, 16 hours, 11 minutes, 7 seconds played at 90. (No BoE items bought)
    Exactly this, started gearing my balance druid alt in 5.4 and it's at 550ilvl right now (without 600ilvl cloak that is). I have done normal raids with this alt though, but none of those raids has cleared normal yet. Point being, gearing isn't hard, especially to ~535-540ilvl which seems fairly popular for flex 3-4. 540ilvl doesn't even mean that you wouldn't get upgrades from flex either.
    Main: Rogue - Alt: Balance Druid

  18. #118
    You're really going to get upset how someone else wants to run their group?

    If you don't like it, leave, or don't even join.

    They want quick, wipeless clears. I've been in a LOT of flex's where people say "oh I know the fights" and very clearly don't, so I wipe on a boss for an hour +. I don't see why it's such a big deal to want an achieve so you know for a fact the person knows what they're doing.

  19. #119
    People (read: Puggers/people putting together PUGs) want to be carried through content, so they set high requirements for groups and think that that will save them from wiping. Even though Blizzard wants casual players/pugs to progress through the content as they intended, people still want to circumvent that and brute force their way through the bosses/raids. The Ahead of the Curve achievement is definitely not needed for Flex, but naive PUG leaders think that having people with that achievement will ensure a smooth and easy run.

    Find a different group, or make your own. It'll be much less hassle.

    P.S. People often forget that you can get carried through normals too, as they aren't even remotely hard.

  20. #120
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Its the decision of the RL to set any requirements for the raid. Obviously its faster to form a group just saying LFM but the run may not be as smooth. They can set w/e requirement they want for w/e reason they want as long as they are willing to sit and wait for the right people.

    Its similar to "reserving" loot, you can reserve w/e you want as long as you're willing to wait for the right people to make the raid.
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