1. #2041
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    And Raiders on their alts are above that? I can assure you, they're not.
    So dbags being dbags and dbags all over the place.

  2. #2042
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Wow! Some common ground for a change. I agree too. Speed runs are the complete opposite of fun in my opinion.

    Well, when it comes to the normal heroic five mans it is speed run or be left at the door, but just because it is a complete waste of time to do anything but.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Why in fucks sake would you be in a guild with people like that?
    I wasn't in that guild for long. When a handful of the better players were kicked for bruising the GL's ego I asked to join them and we ended DS at #3 on our server. Sadly, that's still not saying much. That's just the reality of playing on a medium pop/low progressed server like Sentinels. Beggars can't be choosers. But that's another topic for another thread.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-11-06 at 10:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  4. #2044
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    And Raiders on their alts are above that? I can assure you, they're not.
    Probably. But as a whole having the alt gearing raiders there contributes far more to the success of the group than everyone else.

  5. #2045
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Well, when it comes to the normal heroic five mans it is speed run or be left at the door, but just because it is a complete waste of time to do anything but.
    In your defense the "heroics" was kind of designed for that in regards to leaving afk at the door without being a burden. If players dont like being left behind then the heroics need to be designed around needing everyone, you cant have it all.

  6. #2046
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Well, when it comes to the normal heroic five mans it is speed run or be left at the door, but just because it is a complete waste of time to do anything but.
    Sadly that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part. It doesn't have to be that way. I sometimes wish that dungeons would give tanks a stacking debuff that they had to clear by standing still for 10 seconds. Nothing annoys me more than a tank that won't stop for a freaking second.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  7. #2047
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I feel like Captain Obvious when making this thread, but the game right now? It's shit. Not just normal shit, but pure shite.

    LFR? There's no fun in LFR. You run through it once to see the content... and next week you cancel your subscription again until the next raidpatch. In fact I didn't even bother doing LFR either for the last patch, since I already know it's just going to be a huge timedrain of mashing my DPS buttons on an easy boss that takes too long to drop dead.

    Timeless Isle, Proving Grounds, Brawler's Guild? Irrelevant content. I might be a casual, but that doesn't mean that I want to do challenging content that doesn't reward anything. I still like to feel my character growing stronger and earning rewards for the challenges that are offered to me.

    If Blizzard doesn't manage to add an endgame to the next expansion which offers the same excitement and rewards as normal or heroic raiding, but for casual players, who just want to play when they feel like it, then this will be the expansion that will cause the entire ship to sink.

    Edit:
    One of the things I'd also like to point at is the fact that I used the words: "Casual exciting" in the title instead of "casual friendly".

    I think the difference is very important, because yes, people are right MoP is the most casual friendly ever, but is it casual exciting? Nope. And that is where the problem lies.

    So to clarify: You only log on to run LFR, see new content, log off and cancel sub until more new content. NOW you want them to make all the higher end gear that's tougher to get, available in said LFR-type content.... so you can be catered to on that front.

    So, where in this business model does this help retain you as a subscriber? Then you'd just log on, run LFR, get even better gear, log off and cancel sub until next batch of better gear. Which is what you're doing anyways.

    I don't really understand, it seems like you're troll trolling to troll the troll trollers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Komie View Post
    They still say Cata needs a lot of work, and this expansion (edit for reference: MoP) is in the final stages.
    Quoted for... truth? on 11/30/2011.

  8. #2048
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You missed the whole point. Training is required to teach people how to jump out of planes. Blizzard is not a school. The goal of Jump School is to teach soldiers to jump out of planes. Blizzard is a business and their goal is to convince as many people to give them $15 a month as possible. Nothing you're saying here convinces me otherwise. Just because you choose to run your guild as a Jump School doesn't mean you're establishing a model for Blizzard to follow.

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    Heroic epics were your words, not mine. You're the one who was accusing casuals of demanding heroic epics for non-raid content. That's not the same as demanding raid-level epics for non-raid content. I agree that normal mode pieces are raid level epics, and I think it's perfectly fine for non-raiders to insist on a progression path towards gaining those without having to raid. I'm also OK with heroic epics being confined to heroic raiders.

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    For Pete's sake! You're the one who chimed in when I originally quoted that statement:




    Why did you say, "No. It is actually not," in your original post and then turn around and say, "You JUST said the exact same thing." The whole point of my post was that you said the exact same thing. Are you just picking arguments with me for the heck of it?
    When I read your original post it made me believe that you were argueing that Ghost Crawler never made the statement that "casual players would quit rather than face challenging content". Which he did. Maybe I read your post wrong, or the one you were arguing against.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Sadly that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part. It doesn't have to be that way. I sometimes wish that dungeons would give tanks a stacking debuff that they had to clear by standing still for 10 seconds. Nothing annoys me more than a tank that won't stop for a freaking second.
    A DPS that wont stop running ahead and pulling annoys me the most. As a healer I let them die if given the choice. I did that a handful of times in Cata and those players learned their role in the group quick and those that didnt was left dead on the floor. In MoP however things just dont hit hard enough.

  10. #2050
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    I think the OP is right, but I think the way to do that is not raiding. It's 5 mans. Heavily story driven 5 man instances that give out LFR level loot, FLEX level on Heroic, that have voice acting, great characters, and are built to be fun.

    A casual player base is better served with story content then an easier raid.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  11. #2051
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebbikenezer View Post
    So to clarify: You only log on to run LFR, see new content, log off and cancel sub until more new content. NOW you want them to make all the higher end gear that's tougher to get, available in said LFR-type content.... so you can be catered to on that front.

    So, where in this business model does this help retain you as a subscriber? Then you'd just log on, run LFR, get even better gear, log off and cancel sub until next batch of better gear. Which is what you're doing anyways.
    His point is that Blizzard should provide something other than LFR to do so that he wouldn't have to run LFR any more to feel like his character is going places. What you described is pretty much the current state of the game. I think Blizzard can do better than what they've been doing. Corralling everyone into raids isn't working out so well.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  12. #2052
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Sadly that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part. It doesn't have to be that way. I sometimes wish that dungeons would give tanks a stacking debuff that they had to clear by standing still for 10 seconds. Nothing annoys me more than a tank that won't stop for a freaking second.
    I'm happy to slow down if people ask, normally. But far more often I'm asked to pull more, and I'm happy to oblige. Tanking is fairly simplistic nowadays so pulling more mobs keeps me on my toes. And is a fun way to show off.

  13. #2053
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    My point was that comparing playing a game to having sex is pretty ridiculous. Also, the game will always award raid-level gear to non-raiders in some way or another. If I farm about 100K gold I guarantee that six months from now I'll be able to pay a 14/14H guild to carry me through the raid and hand me the reward mount to boot. That's how meaningful your in-game rewards are.
    Server I left has a guild that does that on a regular basis and then claims they got the progression on their own. It is common knowledge. That is not however a mechanic of the game but a mechanic of lazy or unskilled players and those who will charge to take advantage of that. Which is a topic for a completely different thread.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  14. #2054
    I would like to see a simple change to LFR.
    25 people is just a mess. Reduce it to 15 people, require only one tank, and 3 healers.
    And have the boss health be around the flex 10 man level.

    These LFR runs take way to long. Everyone doing such low DPS. (And a gear level increase won't fix it, it is skill level issues)
    It should flow much more like a hard heroic dungeon.
    Not some cluster f*** with a bunch of people afking.
    A LFR wing clear should not take longer than a normal 10 clear(of the same bosses) on farm status.

  15. #2055
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    it discourages people from joining casual raiding guild. Which then feed players to the normal raiding guilds, who feed to the heroic raiding guilds, etc.
    In other words, so many people are willing to focus on LFR and give up mounts, achievements, and tons of item levels just to not have to be in a raiding guild, that you want Blizzard to remove the alternative so they're forced to.

  16. #2056
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    You do realize getting rid of LFD would mean no cross realm which would mean no oqueue right? So again, you use an addon not trade or your guild.......which brings me back to my point of people (not me, I don't pug) would be pissed if they couldn't queue up and had to put in effort to form a group.
    And people like me would be completely acceptable of that. Why is it that with all the cross server bull crap I have a LOT harder time finding quality players than when I had only my server and people willing to PAY to come to my server to choose from? And Oque? Sorry but if I use Oque for an extended period of time it locks up my game client so bad that I cannot even tab out.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  17. #2057
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Sadly that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part. It doesn't have to be that way. I sometimes wish that dungeons would give tanks a stacking debuff that they had to clear by standing still for 10 seconds. Nothing annoys me more than a tank that won't stop for a freaking second.
    If I can clear a 5 man in about 5 minutes its pretty much the fastest funnest way to farm valor; I queue up with a guildy healer so why on earth would I want to wait around if I'm doing 50%+ of the damage. With the gear disparity stuff isn't alive long enough for others to contribute as much. I know it probably isn't "as fun" but at least it doesn't take long.
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  18. #2058
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post


    Not really, WF is so prevalent that 'normal' by this point is pretty much 'entry level'.
    Thank you. And exactly my point. Even if the people shouting for welfare epics are currently only meaning normal mode gear once that is opened up more liberally they will then set their eyes on the real shinys.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  19. #2059
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    Name one single activity in wow that more players subscribe to the game for more than raiders do for raiding. I love the "raiding was never that popular to start with" responces... WHAT in wow has ever been popular / the main reason peoepl were subbed by more than 10% of the total wow population at any given point?

    I've no idea what the masses enjoy about WoW, I'm not them. I imagine it varies massively between each player. But, at it's peak of what, 12million subs? How many of them were raiding? 10%? 5%? less? I honestly can't remember, I vaguely remember GC saying it was miniscule (like, 2% enter SWP when it was current or something like that). Either way, if 98% of the games subscribers aren't taking part in a particular activity a game has to offer, it's safe to say that is not what makes people want to play that game.

    'I pay $15/month to play this game because of this particular feature I don't take part in' - said no one ever.

    This idea that WoW is 'Raiding' and nothing else is absolute rubbish. Raiding is the WoW Dev teams pet. They love it, they don't want to see it go. Now everyone and their mothers is funnelled into it as it's the only progression orientated content available and, like I said early, has resulted in the predicament we have now. A big cesspool of nasty players bitching at each other all the time. New players are scared away, old players are bored.

  20. #2060
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    You do have to wait 5.3 months though. Likewise I think there would be less annoyance at LFR if it stayed locked for longer, giving normal mode+ guilds longer to progress through the raids, and an incentive for casualish players to play with them to see stuff earlier.
    Personally I would be happy if there was not this push for new content every 3-4 months. It would give the casual, majority, average, or however you want to term them, player the time to complete things and there would be no need to water down anything. The uber players will get done and either unsub, which according to many posters will not affect Blizzard's bottom line much, or sell kills for valuable gold to gain resources for the next tier.

    Has anyone stopped to think that when they post about how easy earlier raids were and the reason is because x number of guilds completed it is not because it was easier but because the average player was given more time to complete? That and the above average players were selling carries and or helping out friends with lesser playing skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Sadly that was a conscious choice on Blizzard's part. It doesn't have to be that way. I sometimes wish that dungeons would give tanks a stacking debuff that they had to clear by standing still for 10 seconds. Nothing annoys me more than a tank that won't stop for a freaking second.

    I would annoy you in a five man. But that is more a product of being able to solo it. When it is fresh and there is an excuse for people taking their time because not taking their time would lead to more wasted time due to wipes I assure you I am more reasonable. Mind you, I am not a dick to people in a five man, I just pretty much ignore them at this point and this is a defense mechanism to keep me from telling them what I really think some times.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

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