1. #2141
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Ok so you pushed more than one button in vanilla if you actually played your class and not afk for free loot. Thanks for being honest. Healing isn't so much more complex imo compared from wrath until now. Let's take resto shaman for example. Back in wrath you had to use a lot more spells to do your job properly than hoping the raid doesn't move out of your healing rain like now. Seems like that one got reverted to being easy if the raid stands in your rain.
    Not really. BM hunters had a one button macro. My mage I more or less spammed frost bolt through most of MC. Mind you I wasn't as concerned with min maxing back then but it wasn't anywhere near as complex. Going to my hunter today theirs alot more shit to do and active procs to keep track of and rppm trinkets.

    As for healing in wotlk on my paladin I largely spammed one button. A couple of cooldowns (loh, defensive cooldowns) but not only did I basically ignore mana as a resource I literally had one go to healing spell and no additional holy power as a resouce to use. IN so far as shamans are concerned they've just been given a battery of cds to use and keep track of. The complexity is still there. The simple fact that mana matters means that healing is far more complex. Even that alone is proof of that. I didn't heal on a shaman in wotlk though so I can't know your specific case. I did a bit in cataclysm mind you but I have no way to compare.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    So you dislike the entire purpose of WoW and now complaining that you want the game to change? It's like saying you play mario cart and you hate it because it's not like pacman? An educated guess would be this - Players have been moaning since vanilla that "WoW iz 2 h4rd, gief l00t plis". This game is easier than ever currently and STILL people moan about not having been given enough.
    The entire purpose of wow is not raiding and was not raiding for many many players. When someone plays mario kart the content is just mario kart. The content is that narrow. WoW was never that narrow. Well until now. I mean wtf this is so fucking stupid. Many of you are calling for exclusivity of raiding but at the same time your also making this complaint that it was wows main thing. Well if it was exclusive then it could have not been the "main thing" for people who never participated in it.

    The game is not easier then ever and certainly not casual friendly or rewarding as ever. It was far easier in wotlk when I didn't need to raid and didn't have enormous ability bloat and complex procs and rotations.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-11-07 at 01:51 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #2142
    As the story of WoW unfolds - the more complex it becomes, so does the new challenges players face and thus the more complex and "stronger" the classes become. It definitely is a lot more than back in vanilla but it's still nowhere NEAR being difficult to manage or keep track of. Blizzard has even made it so easy as to add interface images that pop up when a certain situation has occurred. A good example is maelstrom weapon when enhancement shamans reach 5 stacks and it flashes blue lightning all over the middle of the screen.

  3. #2143
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    As the story of WoW unfolds - the more complex it becomes, so does the new challenges players face and thus the more complex and "stronger" the classes become. It definitely is a lot more than back in vanilla but it's still nowhere NEAR being difficult to manage or keep track of. Blizzard has even made it so easy as to add interface images that pop up when a certain situation has occurred. A good example is maelstrom weapon when enhancement shamans reach 5 stacks and it flashes blue lightning all over the middle of the screen.
    So for newer or weaker players who didn't keep up they just get left in the dust? Sounds like a pretty shitty way to keep players or attract new ones. They have not made it easy. The pop ups only add to the clutter of things to keep track of.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #2144
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Not really. BM hunters had a one button macro. My mage I more or less spammed frost bolt through most of MC. Mind you I wasn't as concerned with min maxing back then but it wasn't anywhere near as complex. Going to my hunter today theirs alot more shit to do and active procs to keep track of and rppm trinkets.

    As for healing in wotlk on my paladin I largely spammed one button. A couple of cooldowns (loh, defensive cooldowns) but not only did I basically ignore mana as a resource I literally had one go to healing spell and no additional holy power as a resouce to use. IN so far as shamans are concerned they've just been given a battery of cds to use and keep track of. The complexity is still there. The simple fact that mana matters means that healing is far more complex. Even that alone is proof of that. I didn't heal on a shaman in wotlk though so I can't know your specific case. I did a bit in cataclysm mind you but I have no way to compare.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The entire purpose of wow is not raiding and was not raiding for many many players. When someone plays mario kart the content is just mario kart. The content is that narrow. WoW was never that narrow. Well until now. I mean wtf this is so fucking stupid. Many of you are calling for exclusivity of raiding but at the same time your also making this complaint that it was wows main thing. Well if it was exclusive then it could have not been the "main thing" for people who never participated in it.

    The game is not easier then ever and certainly not casual friendly or rewarding as ever. It was far easier in wotlk when I didn't need to raid and didn't have enormous ability bloat and complex procs and rotations.
    Your post explains a lot about your attitude and what you are looking for in an mmo. I wish you luck.

  5. #2145
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The entire purpose of wow is not raiding and was not raiding for many many players. When someone plays mario kart the content is just mario kart. The content is that narrow. WoW was never that narrow. Well until now. I mean wtf this is so fucking stupid. Many of you are calling for exclusivity of raiding but at the same time your also making this complaint that it was wows main thing. Well if it was exclusive then it could have not been the "main thing" for people who never participated in it.

    The game is not easier then ever and certainly not casual friendly or rewarding as ever. It was far easier in wotlk when I didn't need to raid and didn't have enormous ability bloat and complex procs and rotations.
    You're mistaken again. The main purpose of WoW HAS and ALWAYS WILL BE the PvE side of it. In vanilla you had to farm 6months to reach lvl 60 and as soon as that happened, you were engulfed in dungeons and chain quests to eventually build up to being attuned for a raid in which the VERY CORE of Warcraft's storyline then unfolds as you defeat each and every boss from UBRS to LBRS to Ony to world dragons to MC to BWL to AQ10 to AQ25 and EVENTUALLY to Naxx. TBC's purpose was the defeating of the betrayer a.k.a. Illidan Stormrage through working your way through Kara, then Gruul's then SSC and finally TK... I can go on and on. There has NEVER been another main purpose of World of Wacraft only mere additional game features such as PvP and somewhat RP throughout the game that only described the main storyline even more.

    You head to timeless isle and within 30min your alt or main could be brought from ilvl 300 to 500 as well as being given gold and TONS of extra loot. There is somewhat ability bloat at the moment, I agree - But not to the extent of being dumbstruck when opening your spell book. The talent trees back in vanilla and TBC were MUCH more complicated than MoP's.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    So for newer or weaker players who didn't keep up they just get left in the dust? Sounds like a pretty shitty way to keep players or attract new ones. They have not made it easy. The pop ups only add to the clutter of things to keep track of.
    If you create a new character from level 1 and go through each quests set out by Blizzard you will notice EVERYTHING is explained in immaculate and almost exhausting detail. Cinematics have been placed throughout the game to further explain to new players what has happened in WoW - Your issue is that you're comparing someone who started in vanilla to someone who started now - They will OBVIOUSLY have a different outlook on WoW and they should. Keep track of? How fucking difficult is it to press the glowing key on your screen? Are you in some sense mentally impaired? The classes are INSANELY user-friendly at the moment as to being able to keep up with basics and you're trying to compare doing to basics to someone doing HC raiding who utilizes ALL his spells. Your description so far is to make it plain and simple so the skill difference will almost be impossible to view as everyone will be spamming the same stuff and doing the same stuff.

  6. #2146
    Quote Originally Posted by Navitus View Post
    The sense of entitlement in this thread is disgusting. Why do you even play an MMO?
    Exactly! How DARE you want to have fun in a game you are paying for?!

  7. #2147
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbojonez View Post
    Exactly! How DARE you want to have fun in a game you are paying for?!
    If you pay for KFC and get upset because you didn't receive McDonalds, you've got only yourself to blame.

  8. #2148
    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    Until 14/14HC in 5.4 for guilds doing serious raiding - All that static boss farming is nothing compared to the feeling of having achieved a new kill and climbing the ladder. When eventually complete with the raid - I could obviously see it getting boring, but that is another argument on its own i.e. bring out more content sooner.
    For me exciting is more like PVP: you do something and it gets your adrenaline up, or you build up to a massive victory. Except in PVP it's always exciting, since players and tactics change, in a raid you go and every time you can expect 99% of the same thing, and even the fighting itself is just like 1-1-1-2-1-1-1-2-jump-move to the right-click a gimmick-button-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-transition, so for me it gets boring.

    I can understand your point of climbing up the ladder and trying to beat other raid guilds in the ladder though, for me it's just too slow though, I prefer to watch a formula 1 race than a rally :P .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTb_ZnMRHE
    " As for MoP If you actually had loved East Asian culture (South Asian, North Asian, South East Asian cultures are wildly different from the East Asian ones) you would know that MoP represents or channels NOTHING of it. Entire MoP "Asian theme" is essentially "Asia as seen by dumb Westerners, inspired by Hong Kong martial arts epics". "

  9. #2149
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbojonez View Post
    Exactly! How DARE you want to have fun in a game you are paying for?!
    I paid for it, cater to MMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

  10. #2150
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,394
    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    So you dislike the entire purpose of WoW and now complaining that you want the game to change?
    I'm fond of saying that World of Warcraft is a big enough game to encompass more than one purpose. And that's true. An end game that is not completely built around raiding would be welcome by many players. I'm not saying that anything about raiding necessarily needs to change but a wider variety of things of appropriate difficulty that provide good rewards and a chance for people to progress characters over a long time is not undermining 'the entire purpose of WoW.' It does not need to be exclusively solo but something that includes solo as well as small group content wouldn't hurt anything.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  11. #2151
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm fond of saying that World of Warcraft is a big enough game to encompass more than one purpose. And that's true. An end game that is not completely built around raiding would be welcome by many players. I'm not saying that anything about raiding necessarily needs to change but a wider variety of things of appropriate difficulty that provide good rewards and a chance for people to progress characters over a long time is not undermining 'the entire purpose of WoW.' It does not need to be exclusively solo but something that includes solo as well as small group content wouldn't hurt anything.
    That would be nice I agree - I think most players just yearn for the vanilla days of actually having to spend like 6months leveling a character and going through THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of quests and storylines to eventually reach max level. The problem with "progress" is - people don't like losing or spending gold after wiping on a boss so they'd rather not do it at all. In my opinion, people say LFR is too easy, but Flex is too hard and then give up entirely and then call WoW a bad game. Unfortunately for these people, WoW has always had raiding to provide the storyline as these "bosses" are viewed as these type of Gods where an army of heroes is needed to defeat him/her. The problem with applying a solo-type version would make it so that some classes/specs/races and different skilled players would abuse it and boost through the originally intended "hard content". I do vote for more things such as challenge modes, brawlers, proving grounds that are MORE BALANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #2152
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm fond of saying that World of Warcraft is a big enough game to encompass more than one purpose. And that's true. An end game that is not completely built around raiding would be welcome by many players. I'm not saying that anything about raiding necessarily needs to change but a wider variety of things of appropriate difficulty that provide good rewards and a chance for people to progress characters over a long time is not undermining 'the entire purpose of WoW.' It does not need to be exclusively solo but something that includes solo as well as small group content wouldn't hurt anything.
    Spoken like a true warrior princess!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    That would be nice I agree - I think most players just yearn for the vanilla days of actually having to spend like 6months leveling a character and going through THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of quests and storylines to eventually reach max level. The problem with "progress" is - people don't like losing or spending gold after wiping on a boss so they'd rather not do it at all. In my opinion, people say LFR is too easy, but Flex is too hard and then give up entirely and then call WoW a bad game. Unfortunately for these people, WoW has always had raiding to provide the storyline as these "bosses" are viewed as these type of Gods where an army of heroes is needed to defeat him/her. The problem with applying a solo-type version would make it so that some classes/specs/races and different skilled players would abuse it and boost through the originally intended "hard content". I do vote for more things such as challenge modes, brawlers, proving grounds that are MORE BALANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Was that sarcasm? Because I doubt anyone wants that, and I don't think WoW had that many thousands of quests back then.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTb_ZnMRHE
    " As for MoP If you actually had loved East Asian culture (South Asian, North Asian, South East Asian cultures are wildly different from the East Asian ones) you would know that MoP represents or channels NOTHING of it. Entire MoP "Asian theme" is essentially "Asia as seen by dumb Westerners, inspired by Hong Kong martial arts epics". "

  13. #2153
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm fond of saying that World of Warcraft is a big enough game to encompass more than one purpose. And that's true. An end game that is not completely built around raiding would be welcome by many players. I'm not saying that anything about raiding necessarily needs to change but a wider variety of things of appropriate difficulty that provide good rewards and a chance for people to progress characters over a long time is not undermining 'the entire purpose of WoW.' It does not need to be exclusively solo but something that includes solo as well as small group content wouldn't hurt anything.
    That requires a massive amount of resources and time to give the mmospg players what they want on top of what the traditional mmo player wants. It's part of the reason Blizzard has had to double their staff over the past couple of years. To truly give the solo player the entire experience they would want will probably take double what they have now. It's not easy finding people with the skillset and that fit the culture of your company either. There are companies that do offer spg experience without the hassle of being forced to group for stuff if that is what you are truly after.

  14. #2154
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm fond of saying that World of Warcraft is a big enough game to encompass more than one purpose. And that's true. An end game that is not completely built around raiding would be welcome by many players. I'm not saying that anything about raiding necessarily needs to change but a wider variety of things of appropriate difficulty that provide good rewards and a chance for people to progress characters over a long time is not undermining 'the entire purpose of WoW.' It does not need to be exclusively solo but something that includes solo as well as small group content wouldn't hurt anything.
    Exactly, and that is in the end the only thing I'm hoping they'll add and properly flesh out in the next expansion. I like the lore, I like the warcraft universe, I like the gameplay engine, how the classes play, etc. But there's sadly just not any content which I feel is relevant to my playstyle, or rather my login behaviour.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  15. #2155
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    That requires a massive amount of resources and time to give the mmospg players what they want on top of what the traditional mmo player wants. It's part of the reason Blizzard has had to double their staff over the past couple of years. To truly give the solo player the entire experience they would want will probably take double what they have now. It's not easy finding people with the skillset and that fit the culture of your company either. There are companies that do offer spg experience without the hassle of being forced to group for stuff if that is what you are truly after.
    She said it could be something that includes small group content as well. As for the "massive amount of resources", the only major resource a game needs is programming power, if you have that you can make different teams for different content.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTb_ZnMRHE
    " As for MoP If you actually had loved East Asian culture (South Asian, North Asian, South East Asian cultures are wildly different from the East Asian ones) you would know that MoP represents or channels NOTHING of it. Entire MoP "Asian theme" is essentially "Asia as seen by dumb Westerners, inspired by Hong Kong martial arts epics". "

  16. #2156
    God casuals won't settle for anything......We give you LFR....."ITS TOO HARDZZZ"NERF!.......ITS TO EASY NO EVERYBODY AFKs.........You complain when there aren't enough quest and everything else. There are many other games that offer a better casual gaming experience than WoW. I don't see how people can pay $15 a month when all your going to do is quest and do pet battles and at that point you should just play pokemon. What do you want for endgame? I see so many casuals expecting raid gear when they refuse to out the time in. It just won't happen. You think you deserve the same rewards when you only play 2 hours a week to a person that plays 24 hours a week just because you pay a sub? Well the answer is you don't. You people complain about everything everything Blizzard trys to release you complain about it whats even the point anymore.....
    You must be a racist if you don't agree with me.

  17. #2157
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Was that sarcasm? Because I doubt anyone wants that, and I don't think WoW had that many thousands of quests back then.
    No sarcasm there. Players who hate raiding and PvP want more RP, players who hate RP and PvE want more PvP, players who hate RP and PvP just want epix. And yes there were quite an insurmountable amount back then. I had reached 60 and still not explored 3/4 of WoW or reached anywhere near atunement for any of the raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    She said it could be something that includes small group content as well. As for the "massive amount of resources", the only major resource a game needs is programming power, if you have that you can make different teams for different content.
    Programming isn't as expensive as actual designing and modeling of the new features/mounts/raids/weapons/armor etc. I recall Blizzard making those statements during an interview with Swifty saying how EXTREMELY expensive the slightest changes are.
    Last edited by sQish; 2013-11-07 at 02:35 AM.

  18. #2158
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The decision of why raids and not cms for gear IS arbitrary though. It's done based largely on what the developers think is fun. I agree gearing is attractive to a large portion of the player base so why is it that raiding has an enormous preponderance on gear?
    CM raids in addition to existing raid flavours: probably a niche activity some would really like.

    Replacing raids with CM-style no loot: disastrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You know for most of vanilla rotations consisted of basically one ability right? In fact through most tbc for most classes this was the case as well. Honestly think about what you write for a minute. Go back and look how simple it was to play your class in vanilla and tbc and then compare it to the 30+ keys binds you have now, and the procs and the rotations and all of it and ask yourself was the success of this game ever based on complexity? Or the bosses who were also largely tank and spanks as well.

    If people want to buy gear from a vendor let them. If people want to spam dungeons let them. Stop engineering player behaviour.
    The thing is when most people say this they mean it as a bad thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #2159
    Quote Originally Posted by sQish View Post
    Programming isn't as expensive as actual designing and modeling of the new features/mounts/raids/weapons/armor etc. I recall Blizzard making those statements during an interview with Swifty saying how EXTREMELY expensive the slightest changes are.
    Even so, Blizzard probably would be smart to pull some resources away from raiding then and to put it into a different kind of end-game.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  20. #2160
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    She said it could be something that includes small group content as well. As for the "massive amount of resources", the only major resource a game needs is programming power, if you have that you can make different teams for different content.
    Man you must tell boring stories if you think you can hash out thousands upon thousands more quests in an expansion within the few archs we've been given the past couple. You also have to remember that you have to do this every year or year and a half to keep your entire player base happy. Don't think raiders are gonna want to sit for longer than 3-4 months in their dungeon. You really think you can pull it off? No other company has yet.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •